::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBb00PQR1zo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBb00PQR1zo) such a fucking inside job
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du5XnBqFrfQ
sup maroon how many fire fighters did you count?
how many people did you count?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWM64aSYxuM
thing is maroon people don't want to believe that the goverment will kill them for personal gains.
Wow
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3008938805735782363&hl=en
how was that funny? ???It is not funny. But it is an example of how misconsstrued logic to prove facts can cause improper conclusions.
That is proof? One firefighter says there was an eplosion in the lobby? Was this a backdraft down the elevator chute? A gas pipe explosion?
WHAT GUY?!?! @ boston's Logan airport as a flight services guy on 9/11
and yeah i know ok city bombing was an inside job also
OMG CHECK THIS - ITS FUCKING TRUE I CANT BELIEVE I DOUBTED
(http://hostilism.com/forums/Themes/hostyle/images/topic/my_veryhot_post.gif)
That is the post icon for this thread.
The top flame represents the plane crash.
The bottom plane represents the controlled demolition charges that were secretly set in one of the most populated buildings in new york city without anyone noticing.
The red arrow represents everyone running from the building.
The little corner up top is the building starting fall.
I figured I would put my Flight 93 story to the mix.
Being ex-military and a Louisiana resident I have the priviledge of knowing the pilot that flies all of the top brass in the state. When 9/11 happened, I'm sure you will all remember that Bush flew on Air Force One to Barksdale Air Force Base, in Shreveport, LA. My pilot friend was summoned to fly the top general in the state from New Orleans to Shreveport to meet the President.
About halfway there the general gets a message and says to my pilot friend, "We just shot one down in Pennsylvania."
Believe it or not but the guy is pretty trustworthy and wouldn't make it up. Since Flight 93 was way late in the sequence there was ample time for the shot down scenario. The lack of a tail section at the crash scene (or any other "real" parts for that matter) would be consistent with a rear shot.
http://home.comcast.net/~skydrifter/flt93.htm
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30682
http://killtown.911review.org/flight93.html
That's just a few of the first results of a Google "flight 93 tail section" search. There are of course many similarities between the Flight 93 crash scene and the Pentagon crash scene (missing parts, nice pretty holes, etc.) I'm too lazy to find and document it but I remember reading that pieces of the plane (an engine, other stuff) were found miles away which could not have happened if the plane simply crashed.
Check out the cell phone transcripts that supposedly came from Flight 93, which also yielded that famous "Let's roll!" Sure does sound like some good propaganda to put out - good Americans fighting terror in the skies. Also a better story than, "We had to kill our own people."
Just my .02
OMG CHECK THIS - ITS FUCKING TRUE I CANT BELIEVE I DOUBTED
(http://hostilism.com/forums/Themes/hostyle/images/topic/my_veryhot_post.gif)
That is the post icon for this thread.
The top flame represents the plane crash.
The bottom plane represents the controlled demolition charges that were secretly set in one of the most populated buildings in new york city without anyone noticing.
The red arrow represents everyone running from the building.
The little corner up top is the building starting fall.
the problem with the more jets theory is that those jets still fly along proscibed routes, they can't fly the shortest route between two points or just pick random fly paths so that is not the reason for the checkerboard paterns.
the problem with the more jets theory is that those jets still fly along proscibed routes, they can't fly the shortest route between two points or just pick random fly paths so that is not the reason for the checkerboard paterns.
I don't understand why ppl doubt the govt would try upper atmosphere dispersal, they got caught doing the same kind of thing back in the 50's and 60's over san fransisco with different kinds of agents, why would they think any different now?
Sry for the spam, I wanted Sarge to see this reply .the problem with the more jets theory is that those jets still fly along proscibed routes, they can't fly the shortest route between two points or just pick random fly paths so that is not the reason for the checkerboard paterns.
I don't understand why ppl doubt the govt would try upper atmosphere dispersal, they got caught doing the same kind of thing back in the 50's and 60's over san fransisco with different kinds of agents, why would they think any different now?
I think people doubt things like this, and other "Conspiracy theories" for the same reason people doubt their mate would ever cheat..
It is just too painfull for most people to think things like that can be happening, so despite any evidence they see they always find a reason to doubt it.
However, when it is another person's mate, they can see right through it. Just like we see right through other countries lies, and mis-deeds, but not our own ..
Americans are for the most part secure so it is easier to hold onto that feeling of security, than to have it thrown completely off by accepting even one of these "conspiracy theories" ..
I hope this doesn't provoke MAD into another nuke the USA thread !
well any time we have officials and the elite doing mock human sacrafice and occult shit there is a problem
Cremation of Care Bohemian Grove ritual part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZD3WT3Vqa8
Cremation of Care Bohemian Grove ritual part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrZ1B38TH6k&mode=related&search=
when alex is talking it's not during the filming but during the editing
well any time we have officials and the elite doing mock human sacrafice and occult shit there is a problem
Cremation of Care Bohemian Grove ritual part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZD3WT3Vqa8
Cremation of Care Bohemian Grove ritual part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrZ1B38TH6k&mode=related&search=
when alex is talking it's not during the filming but during the editing
This nexr one made me dizzy, I gotta go to work now ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3avVyf1OMjQ&mode=related&search=
As people who are into games/movies/fantasy.... It is certainly easy to understand why thinking of these things becomes fascinating. I make no claim to my "end game" decision on what is real or possible and what isn't ..
I have my own doubts about my own catholic up bringing, and often say Religion is a tool of man. I also buy into science, and often that makes me think "God" is conceptual . Not to start a religious conversation here.
If I was going to accept any of these things, I would have to accept things that go way past my current level of "faith". I am just trying to keep up and feed my family, have some fun on the way down hill..
Still, it is pretty wild to think that those types of spiritual power may exist.
However, it does nothing for the reality of those conspiracies in present day, and honestly makes it easier to doubt them ..
Pretty confusing, something feels funny .. .
is that my mind trying to open again .. Damnit i thought I locked it up good this time.....
LMAO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPb-PN9F2Pc
Nixon tape talking about faggots in San fran lol ..
He mentions Bohemian grove too ...
oK Here this says more to me about who is thre and who isn't lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCDs9Vs2iYM&mode=related&search=
Dick cheney is insane, his office is telling the national archive that they don't have to supply legal documents mandated by a Executive order because the Vice Presidents office isn't part of the executive branch of the govt.
the guy is a fucking menace to all of us, can you imagine this nut job with his finger on the nuke trigger, god help us all if bush dies in office.
So not going to bother to read your response lox just like I haven't read any of the posts in this thread
Hope your tin foil hats serves you well into the future!! ;D
So not going to bother to read your response lox just like I haven't read any of the posts in this thread
Hope your tin foil hats serves you well into the future!! ;D
How dare you interupt this cut-n-paste fest!!!
the free fall speed has been quoted on the history channel,the discovery channel,nova and front line to name a few main stream shows and networks to use the term.
I watched a show on frontline last nite about dick Cheney and the who is exactly running the White house and how they have basically trashed the way the Justice dept. is supposed to give legal opinions on what the pres. proposes.
then there are the thousands of presidential findings that Bush signed that say even tho he signed a bill the laws and pules in that bill don't apply to the Executive branch.
click on the link and watch the documentry, it will blow your mind http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/cheney/etc/synopsis.html.
These ass holes have used this phoney war on terror to attack the rights of americans,they only call it a war to fool ppl.
Pat Buchanan / Yahoo News | October 12, 2007
From the Govt. agency that brought you the great response to Katrina
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN2636610020071026?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews&rpc=22&sp=true
they had FEMA employees pretend to be reporters during a fake news conference about the California fires, these assholes just don't know when to give up.
Its comical that OPEC now wants to crank up oil production with the price of a barrel of oil pushing 100 dollars,they let oil become a commodity traded on the futures market and thats what drives up the price like it is then they discover they can magically pump more oil.
welcome to the Bush/Cheney secret energy plan.I swear to god this Iraq shit was done just to drive up the price of oil,that and pump money back into corps that were big time defense contractors during the cold war.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8SLGQMO0&show_article=1
this crap along with the plummetting dollar will fuck us all up in the end.
fact is man "The New World Order" is real and they are steering this ship called america into a fucking cliff.
If people don't want to wake up then fuck em the stupid fucks don't even understand that it now takes 2 dollars to get 1 fucking euro.It is not fucking game they are not fucking playing with us maybe people will wake up when they are eating at fucking soup kitchen and at every store the owner has fucking shotgun on the counter.
WAKE THE FUCK UP IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THIS COUNTRY THEN GTFO FAGGOT. IM NOT MOVING ANY FUCKING WHERE I WAS BORN HERE.IF UR NOT GONNA DO IT FOR YOURSELF THEN DO IT FOR UR FUCKING KIDS OR THE LITTLE ONE'S IN YA FAMILY!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90ELleCQvew <----how i fucking feel right now
VOTE RON PAUL <---feel comfortable becuz we have so many eyes on this voter fraud shit now
ohh yeah check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAcxGD6-c-E
lets also not forget this little thing called the Posse Comitatus Act dating back to 1878 that specifically forbids the military from taking part in law enforcement actions on non-federal (military/fed government owned) property which effectively nullifies them as a peace officer entity designed to fight crime/terrorism on US soil...
Lox, I think people don't read a lot of your posts because they are just cut and paste. Hell, I can follow the links to prisonplanet, which is a little too right wing for my logic. But, summaries and what you think is good.
Lox, I think people don't read a lot of your posts because they are just cut and paste. Hell, I can follow the links to prisonplanet, which is a little too right wing for my logic. But, summaries and what you think is good.
fact is maroon there is no right or left wing they are all the same fucked up bird
Dude lox lives in NY city and I think he knew ppl that died in the towers
Dude lox lives in NY city and I think he knew ppl that died in the towersi should have been more specific by asking if Bush's/fed government's policies post 9/11 have actually impacted your day to day life.
Here is a question. If the goverment planned 911, fabricated information, and cover ups; Why not fabricate information that proved chemical and biological weapons in Iraq? That would have made things so much more simple especially justifying the war and creating positive public opinion while they do their thing. Now, I do understand that Bush, Cheney, and their cronies are profiting highly from the war. But why not create chemical weapon proof to help justify the ongoing "war?"
is there some global government bogey man out to take your guns, take your home, heard you into pens and execute you? i hardly think so.
fuck whatever you have to say larry silverstein blew up WTC 7 admited it on pbs <---you cannot fucking debate that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WYdAJQV100 <-----thanks larry
This is a 26 sec clip where he says he decided to "pull it." What is pulling it? Where is the rest of this interview so that statement is in context.
Bombs Where Going Off Right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IqSsTmWv7k <----------thanks guys
Sounds of explosions. I would assume a building collapsing would be very loud. Shearing bolts can sound like an explosion.
The guy who maintains the MTS fatigue testers where I used to work told a story where they test steel bars up to 1 foot thick. It is put into a bar tester and pulled apart which takes a huge amount of hydolic force. The steel starts to look like taffy being pulled apart and then lets off a sonic boom upon failure.
lobby blown out guys?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfce_C8GzdE <---yeah man
The force of the collapsing building would cause this. If this was before the collpase, this item is suspect.
Please Don't Post BullShit Again
If You Punch Me In The Mouth Do You Think My Dick Would Be Bleeding Also?
yeah, i guess it is pretty hard to debunk 9/11 if the only places a person looks for info are the places run by conspiracy kooks that hand pick quotes, leave out half the facts, and only present info taken out of context while ignoring a preponderance of info that contradicts their claims.
unfortunately, the internet has made sure the days of scholarly writing that's been verified and peer reviewed by academics are long gone. now anyone that can run windows movie maker and throw up a professional looking website can appear legit and authoritative no matter how outlandish their claims.
You have to joking or do you mean the fine reporting done back at the beginning of the Viet Nam war when the bay of tonkin was reported by the johnson admin. and used to justify the ramping up of that conflict, an event that turns out to never have had happened but then again this govt would never lie to us to justify a war.
I have a book in my bookcase titled Comprised:Clinton,Bush and the CIA.,it is about the cia exporting guns to el salvidor and drugs coming back in on the same planes. the book is about barry Seal and terry reed, Terry Reed is the author.
then you have the OK city bombing where the Govt swears there was no third person(John Doe #3)
If you actually take the time and watch Loose change then how do you explain the series of explosions that go off in the tower behind the reporter doing that live feed or all the firemen talking about all the small explosions going off?
we got caught with our pants down by a bunch of pissed off rag-heads, plain and simple, then cheney, and rummie use it as a springboard for doing what they wanted to get done. that's all there is to it.
maroon you forgot they removed all the steel from the biggest crime scene in history shipped it to china
...he repeatedly characterizes his own studies of the use of thermite (in a sulfur-enhanced version known as "thermate") as both preliminary and incomplete. If that is the case, then by his own standard, there is a serious question whether his own research is ready for prime time! It is also worth mention that he has revised his basic paper on numerous occasions, which, to the best of my knowledge, have not been subject to additional peer review. If we only mention or discuss finished research on st911.org, there is a serious question whether Steve's work properly qualifies for inclusion in the journal he edits, much less the web site.
To the best of my knowledge, Steve has found support among perhaps ten or twelve members of Scholars who are active on the forum. Since our current membership approximates 400, this does not appear to be the majority view.
so i want trolling around the internet today being the news whore i am and ran into this shit.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1955
don't fuck with the thread indig pls thx bud.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071130/obit_smith.html?.v=6
We have a positive net worth with about 25% debt to equity. Currently we have a low credit score due to CC debt. Why do we have this? Well a vacation, and me paying the minumum for a while to get some liquid for a downpayment and buying a few improvement items to finish our house for a more sellable condition.
Movin this into the tin foil hat thread.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071130/obit_smith.html?.v=6
We have a positive net worth with about 25% debt to equity. Currently we have a low credit score due to CC debt. Why do we have this? Well a vacation, and me paying the minumum for a while to get some liquid for a downpayment and buying a few improvement items to finish our house for a more sellable condition.
Not sure what this post is about exactly, but what? I spent the last 6 years in the finance industry as an originator and manager, I don't see what American business practicies have to do with your credit score. Especially if you're bellyaching about getting screwed on a loan. You've got no one else to blame on that one but yourself. You plugging some revolving debt into your FICO isn't going to factor in more than 30%. Maybe you were dumb and maxed out 1 card, had bad credit in the past, missed a bunch of minimum payments or combine those 3 with the fact that you're probably fairly young. Judging by the fact that you consider Michael Moore to be remotely relevant to anything - I'm gonna go with all 4.
Even if I'm wrong, what does any of that have to do with generic CEO Bob Snucklebuck? Anytime someone says the words "bridge loan" to you, punch them in the face. You're getting shitty advice from an LO that probably worked at bagging groceries before embarking on his new career. Sometimes the best advice a loan officer can give you is to hit the bricks. Stop looking at your "25% debt to equity" like its a bank account and get back to reality.
And when you say you can borrow money easier when you don't need it, well no shit. That should have been the rule 100% the entire fucking time. Some guy comes to you with 3 mortgages, up to his hilt in credit card debt and you turn around and write up a loan application for him...? The underwriter should have came back and kicked you in the balls for that, but from 2002-2005ish everyone was like OK HOORAY MONEY...and here are, knee deep in a major financial meltdown.
I think MSN came out with this article a while back about the Top 10 People to blame for the mortgage meltdown, starting with Greenspan. I almost laughed, hoping it would say, "YOU, ASSHOLE" ten times. Although, Greenspan is a douche and should probably be in jail for making beauty school dropouts top producing Loan Officers and Realtors for 3 years.
ugh
Its still a business Maroon, and over a long enough time period making all those exceptions caught up with everyone. Its bad business practice to loan someone money who does not meet the guidelines. End of story. 5 points off? Sorry, they're drawing a line somewhere.
Paulson Works With Industry on Loan Plan
The major thrust of the proposal would be to get lenders to extend for a number of years the lower, introductory rates that were offered on subprime mortgages, loans usually offered to borrowers with weak credit histories. An estimated 2 million of those initial ``teaser'' rates are scheduled to reset to much higher levels by the end of next year, pushing the payment on a typical mortgage from $1,200 per month to $1,550, an increase of $350. The concern is that many homeowners will not be able to meet the higher payments, triggering hundreds of thousands of defaults.
Here the goverment goes again helping the people who shouldn't be in a house and fucking the market even more. This nasty shit justs needs to run its course and get finished.
Who's fault is it I have a temporary low credit score? Mine. But the fact now underwriters can't even think a little outside the box to allow people with high equity and net worth is just fucked up and caused by some of this goverment bailouts and lending practices.
wow, you sound like Newsweek last when they called Ron Paul paraniod about the nafta highway and that it would never happen which is pretty funny considering that the Canadiens have govt web sites up with the maps of those highways running through the USA and you have states setting up ports in cites like Kansas City to handle the freight.
the border check points have been told to fast track trucks across the border,to not investigate who is in the cab ,just check the driver and send it through.
these assholes have sold us down the river and one currency would not shock me one bit.
I do remember when Perot was running for president the first time and he came on the news saying that bugs were found in his campaign offices and the media made him look like an idiot for saying that.
the idea that the Bush ppl would bug another canidate's offices is not that crazy,especially when you take into accout the fact that Bush ran the CIA for years and knew all about ppl being bugged.
we will know if Paul getting whacked if its a lone gunman that pulls something beyond his skill set,thats always the give away in these sort of deals.
lol. how much proof do you need you have like 300+ professionals ie. police and firemen saying bombs were going off. noway you can tell me that the "so called" high jackers set off bombs before and after they were dead and then blow up wtc 7 after they were with allah
why i love ron paul
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWfIhFhelm8 <----how can you not vote for him
(http://www.teaparty07.com/images/ronpship_dees.jpg)
DONATE NOW HE HAS JUST RAISED 6.20 MILLION IN 1 DAY DEC 16th
https://www.ronpaul2008.com/donate/
hehe bet you didn't know anderson cooper from cnn was a intern at the CIA for 2 years
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anderson_Cooper
Gotta Love It!
(http://www.infowars.com/images2/cartoons/040108pers.jpg)
But then again, what the fuck do the Clintons care about the law anyway?
But then again, what the fuck do the Clintons care about the law anyway?
LOL what's that supposed to mean?
Here is something very strange about all the front runners for presidental candidates. They are all congressmen.
Typically, presidents of the current past have been ex-Governors. Kennedy was the last Senator to be president and we all know what the powers that be thought of him.
Before Kennedy, I couldn't tell you who was the last president who wasn't a governor.
This is just a really strange pool of candidates. Mostly congressmen, a woman, a black guy.
Going by past stats, they are all a-typical people to back.
Gasoline could drop 50 cents/gallon by spring
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0628259020080206?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews&rpc=22&sp=true
and ppl don't want to believe the govt isn't pulling any shit on us,kind of funny that right before an election the price of gas will drop
(Pretty Sure She Wants Anything He Wants)
Clarity Sought on Electronics Searches
U.S. Agents Seize Travelers' Devices
By Ellen Nakashima
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, February 7, 2008; A01
Nabila Mango, a therapist and a U.S. citizen who has lived in the country since 1965, had just flown in from Jordan last December when, she said, she was detained at customs and her cellphone was taken from her purse. Her daughter, waiting outside San Francisco International Airport, tried repeatedly to call her during the hour and a half she was questioned. But after her phone was returned, Mango saw that records of her daughter's calls had been erased.
A few months earlier in the same airport, a tech engineer returning from a business trip to London objected when a federal agent asked him to type his password into his laptop computer. "This laptop doesn't belong to me," he remembers protesting. "It belongs to my company." Eventually, he agreed to log on and stood by as the officer copied the Web sites he had visited, said the engineer, a U.S. citizen who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of calling attention to himself.
Maria Udy, a marketing executive with a global travel management firm in Bethesda, said her company laptop was seized by a federal agent as she was flying from Dulles International Airport to London in December 2006. Udy, a British citizen, said the agent told her he had "a security concern" with her. "I was basically given the option of handing over my laptop or not getting on that flight," she said.
The seizure of electronics at U.S. borders has prompted protests from travelers who say they now weigh the risk of traveling with sensitive or personal information on their laptops, cameras or cellphones. In some cases, companies have altered their policies to require employees to safeguard corporate secrets by clearing laptop hard drives before international travel.
Today, the Electronic Frontier Foundation and Asian Law Caucus, two civil liberties groups in San Francisco, plan to file a lawsuit to force the government to disclose its policies on border searches, including which rules govern the seizing and copying of the contents of electronic devices. They also want to know the boundaries for asking travelers about their political views, religious practices and other activities potentially protected by the First Amendment. The question of whether border agents have a right to search electronic devices at all without suspicion of a crime is already under review in the federal courts.
The lawsuit was inspired by two dozen cases, 15 of which involved searches of cellphones, laptops, MP3 players and other electronics. Almost all involved travelers of Muslim, Middle Eastern or South Asian background, many of whom, including Mango and the tech engineer, said they are concerned they were singled out because of racial or religious profiling.
A U.S. Customs and Border Protection spokeswoman, Lynn Hollinger, said officers do not engage in racial profiling "in any way, shape or form." She said that "it is not CBP's intent to subject travelers to unwarranted scrutiny" and that a laptop may be seized if it contains information possibly tied to terrorism, narcotics smuggling, child pornography or other criminal activity.
The reason for a search is not always made clear. The Association of Corporate Travel Executives, which represents 2,500 business executives in the United States and abroad, said it has tracked complaints from several members, including Udy, whose laptops have been seized and their contents copied before usually being returned days later, said Susan Gurley, executive director of ACTE. Gurley said none of the travelers who have complained to the ACTE raised concerns about racial or ethnic profiling. Gurley said none of the travelers were charged with a crime.
"I was assured that my laptop would be given back to me in 10 or 15 days," said Udy, who continues to fly into and out of the United States. She said the federal agent copied her log-on and password, and asked her to show him a recent document and how she gains access to Microsoft Word. She was asked to pull up her e-mail but could not because of lack of Internet access. With ACTE's help, she pressed for relief. More than a year later, Udy has received neither her laptop nor an explanation.
ACTE last year filed a Freedom of Information Act request to press the government for information on what happens to data seized from laptops and other electronic devices. "Is it destroyed right then and there if the person is in fact just a regular business traveler?" Gurley asked. "People are quite concerned. They don't want proprietary business information floating, not knowing where it has landed or where it is going. It increases the anxiety level."
Udy has changed all her work passwords and no longer banks online. Her company, Radius, has tightened its data policies so that traveling employees must access company information remotely via an encrypted channel, and their laptops must contain no company information.
At least two major global corporations, one American and one Dutch, have told their executives not to carry confidential business material on laptops on overseas trips, Gurley said. In Canada, one law firm has instructed its lawyers to travel to the United States with "blank laptops" whose hard drives contain no data. "We just access our information through the Internet," said Lou Brzezinski, a partner at Blaney McMurtry, a major Toronto law firm. That approach also holds risks, but "those are hacking risks as opposed to search risks," he said.
The U.S. government has argued in a pending court case that its authority to protect the country's border extends to looking at information stored in electronic devices such as laptops without any suspicion of a crime. In border searches, it regards a laptop the same as a suitcase.
"It should not matter . . . whether documents and pictures are kept in 'hard copy' form in an executive's briefcase or stored digitally in a computer. The authority of customs officials to search the former should extend equally to searches of the latter," the government argued in the child pornography case being heard by a three-judge panel of the Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit in San Francisco.
As more and more people travel with laptops, BlackBerrys and cellphones, the government's laptop-equals-suitcase position is raising red flags.
"It's one thing to say it's reasonable for government agents to open your luggage," said David D. Cole, a law professor at Georgetown University. "It's another thing to say it's reasonable for them to read your mind and everything you have thought over the last year. What a laptop records is as personal as a diary but much more extensive. It records every Web site you have searched. Every e-mail you have sent. It's as if you're crossing the border with your home in your suitcase."
If the government's position on searches of electronic files is upheld, new risks will confront anyone who crosses the border with a laptop or other device, said Mark Rasch, a technology security expert with FTI Consulting and a former federal prosecutor. "Your kid can be arrested because they can't prove the songs they downloaded to their iPod were legally downloaded," he said. "Lawyers run the risk of exposing sensitive information about their client. Trade secrets can be exposed to customs agents with no limit on what they can do with it. Journalists can expose sources, all because they have the audacity to cross an invisible line."
Hollinger said customs officers "are trained to protect confidential information."
Shirin Sinnar, a staff attorney with the Asian Law Caucus, said that by scrutinizing the Web sites people search and the phone numbers they've stored on their cellphones, "the government is going well beyond its traditional role of looking for contraband and really is looking into the content of people's thoughts and ideas and their lawful political activities."
If conducted inside the country, such searches would require a warrant and probable cause, legal experts said.
Customs sometimes singles out passengers for extensive questioning and searches based on "information from various systems and specific techniques for selecting passengers," including the Interagency Border Inspection System, according to a statement on the CBP Web site. "CBP officers may, unfortunately, inconvenience law-abiding citizens in order to detect those involved in illicit activities," the statement said. But the factors agents use to single out passengers are not transparent, and travelers generally have little access to the data to see whether there are errors.
Although Customs said it does not profile by race or ethnicity, an officers' training guide states that "it is permissible and indeed advisable to consider an individual's connections to countries that are associated with significant terrorist activity."
"What's the difference between that and targeting people because they are Arab or Muslim?" Cole said, noting that the countries the government focuses on are generally predominantly Arab or Muslim.
It is the lack of clarity about the rules that has confounded travelers and raised concerns from groups such as the Asian Law Caucus, which said that as a result, their lawyers cannot fully advise people how they may exercise their rights during a border search. The lawsuit says a Freedom of Information Act request was filed with Customs last fall but that no information has been received.
Kamran Habib, a software engineer with Cisco Systems, has had his laptop and cellphone searched three times in the past year. Once, in San Francisco, an officer "went through every number and text message on my cellphone and took out my SIM card in the back," said Habib, a permanent U.S. resident. "So now, every time I travel, I basically clean out my phone. It's better for me to keep my colleagues and friends safe than to get them on the list as well."
Udy's company, Radius, organizes business trips for 100,000 travelers a day, from companies around the world. She says her firm supports strong security measures. "Where we get angry is when we don't know what they're for."
Also, here is an interesting point made by Jesse Ventura. When an aricraft deviates from its scheduled course, there is a military escort deployed to find it. This was the case with Kennedy and he stated another case that I can't rember. How the fuck did 4 commercial airlines disappear over a 6 hour time span without any military jets being deployed to find them?
Net Neutrality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP_3WnJ42kw <----please look at this
Net Neutrality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP_3WnJ42kw <----please look at this
Dont ever quote those lame fucking assholes again,Opie and anthony are a friggin joke.
Every time Sohaila Rezazadeh rings up a sale at her Exxon station on Chain Bridge Road in Oakton, her cash register sends the information to Exxon Mobil's central computers. If she raises the price of gasoline a couple of pennies, chances are that Exxon will raise the wholesale price she pays by the same amount.
Through a password-protected Web portal, Exxon notifies Rezazadeh of wholesale price changes daily. That way the oil giant, which is earning about $3.3 billion a month, fine-tunes the pump prices at the franchise Rezazadeh has owned for 12 years.
Now, however, Rezazadeh says she cannot stay in business. Credit-card fees are eating her profit margins. Exxon, which owns the station land, last week handed Rezazadeh a new lease raising her rent about 30 percent over the next three years. She stuck a copy on the window of her station to show customers who are angry about soaring pump prices. Rezazadeh has told Exxon that she cannot make money with the rent that high. Her territory manager's reply, she said, was simple: When you go, leave us the keys.
Rezazadeh, who fled to the United States from Iran in 1979, is part of the long chain that links motorists with the big oil companies. Major integrated U.S. oil companies -- which produce crude oil, own refineries and sell gasoline -- have been reaping billions of dollars in profit from high oil prices over the past two years, but they are still working to extract every penny they can from the marketing end of the business. Exxon Mobil doesn't break out its earnings from marketing alone, but its 2007 profits in worldwide refining and marketing -- known as the downstream part of the oil business -- reached $9.6 billion, 43 percent of that coming from the United States.
Although Exxon owns and operates few stations anymore -- less than 10 percent of the 12,000 Exxon outlets in the United States -- it uses franchise agreements to maintain tight control over stations that bear its brand. The company dictates everything from the number of pumps to hygiene practices to the placement of food on convenience store shelves. "They monitor everything," Rezazadeh said.
Exxon says it does all this to maintain uniform quality, while recognizing dealer needs. "We recognize . . . that we are in a difficult time with the run-up in crude oil prices," said Ben Soraci, director of U.S. retail sales for Exxon. "Retailers are under a lot of pressure, and they are on the front lines every day with the motorist, who is also feeling a lot of pressure."
Ultimately, Soraci said, "it's in our interest to see them succeed. It's not in our interest to see them hand us the keys."
But some Exxon dealers say the company is trying to squeeze too much out of them.
Like Rezazadeh, Scott Burnham was struggling to cope with low margins and rising rents. On May 9, he closed his station on scenic Knickerbocker Road in Closter, N.J., and abandoned it to Exxon. In March, Exxon had said it would raise his rent by a third over two years. Burnham tried to line up buyers for the franchise, which he purchased for $475,000 just two years ago. But one backed out, saying that the station would lose money no matter how much gasoline it sold.
"Why is the government giving Exxon subsidies and tax breaks when they're making billions of dollars and when they squeeze every dime they can out of every dealer who made that profit for them?" Burnham said.
Soraci said rent increases reflect rising real estate values. "We have excellent real estate out there that is superior to our competition," he said, which allows the dealers to "compete more effectively."
Even some of Exxon's successful and loyal dealers complain. Jerry Daggle owns five Exxon stations in Northern Virginia, and even though they have different competitive conditions and prices, "Exxon magically lets me make about 8 cents a gallon" at each one, he said.
He said micromanaging extends to the snacks sold at Exxon's On the Run convenience stores. The company uses a "planogram" to show dealers where to put candy bars and soda. "If I want to put Coke on a different shelf, I have to get special permission," Daggle said. Recently he was reprimanded for selling mulch on the perimeter of his award-winning Gainesville station; the mulch, though popular in the neighborhood, wasn't an approved product.
Technology has enabled Exxon to tweak its wholesale prices not just by region or state, but by zones as small as a street corner. Although such practices bring cries of outrage from some station owners, they elicit shrugs from some economists.
"Retailers put a lot of effort into understanding local markets, whether they're in the airline business where prices for every seat are often determined on daily basis, or book sellers," said Richard J. Gilbert, an economics professor at the University of California at Berkeley, who has studied the gasoline marketing business. "There's a lot of fine-tuning to adjust prices to local market conditions. The gasoline companies are not very different in that regard."
"We feel very strongly that zone pricing is a method of pricing that at end of the day allows our dealers to be as competitive as they can be at the retail level," Soraci of Exxon said. "It gives us the opportunity to give a particular retailer or trade area a lower price if competitive conditions require that."
Daggle, who has been an Exxon dealer for two decades after working his way up from pumping gas, said he has done well. But he still cannot fathom how the oil company can charge him different wholesale gasoline prices for each of the five Northern Virginia stations he owns. The stations all sell the same Exxon-branded gasoline, delivered from the same terminal in Newington, where it arrives via the same pipeline. Sometimes, Daggle said, it's even dropped off by the same truck and driver hours apart on the same day.
The only thing that's different is the price, which can vary by 35 cents per gallon, Daggle said. "If I could have driven a truck to Gainesville and drive the gas from there to Shirlington, I could have made 50 cents a gallon."
On occasion, he said, he has persuaded Exxon to lower his wholesale price to help match price cuts by a station next door in Gainesville.
Historically, gasoline marketing has been a low-margin business. For decades, when oil was plentiful, margins were kept low to move as much crude oil through the system as possible. Now, major companies don't have to fight to move product, but they are still battling for nickels and dimes at the pumps.
Like other parts of the retailing business, gasoline marketing has become more concentrated and high volume than it was in the days when mom-and-pop gas stations lured customers with free drinking glasses.
Cambridge Energy Research Associates, a consulting firm, noted in a report that in 1977, the United States had 223,118 gasoline outlets. By 2007, the number of outlets had declined to 164,292 -- even as the amount of gasoline sold increased. The average station now pumps 73 percent more than in 1977. And companies are trying to boost revenues by attaching convenience stores to the stations. In 1977, only 5 percent of gas stations had convenience stores; now, 65 percent do.
"The industry we're part of is an extremely competitive industry," said Exxon's Soraci. He said major oil companies' market share has dropped 20 percent in recent years as mass merchandisers such as Costco vie for customers.
Oddly enough, when prices are rising rapidly and consumers are most upset is usually when profit margins are slimmest for station owners. When prices are falling, as they were in September 2006, is usually when jobbers and station owners make the most money.
How much depends largely on Exxon. "If I had raised my gas, within a couple of days, almost inevitably, they would have raised my wholesale price. It's an unspoken rule," Daggle said. He said his Gainesville station makes most of its money from repairs, not gas sales.
Selling gas remains a cutthroat business in an industry awash in profits. Three years ago, when Daggle bought the Gainesville station, a share of Exxon stock was about $50. Buying and fixing up the station has cost him $800,000, and he hasn't yet drawn a profit from it. "If I had bought the stock," he said, he would have nearly doubled his money and would have "never lifted a finger."
buy gold.