Hostile Takeover

Public Discussions => #Hostile => : [Ht]LOx August 08, 2007, 11:28:33 AM

: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 08, 2007, 11:28:33 AM
The Timeline to Tyranny
Ten advances towards the end of freedom and privacy in the United States

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Tuesday, August 7, 2007

The top ten advances towards tyranny in the United States during the tenure of the Bush administration, from the Patriot Act to the latest expansion of the illegal eavesdropping surveillance program.

1) The USA Patriot Act

The party line often heard from Neo-Cons in their attempts to defend the Patriot Act either circulate around the contention that the use of the Patriot Act has never been abused or that it isn't being used against American citizens. Here is an archive of articles that disproves both of these fallacies.

The Patriot Act was the boiler plate from which all subsequent attacks on the Constitution were formed.

2) Total Information Awareness

"Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and medical prescription you fill, every Web site you visit and e-mail you send or receive, every academic grade you receive, every bank deposit you make, every trip you book and every event you attend — all these transactions and communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as "a virtual, centralized grand database," infamously wrote New York Times writer William Safire, announcing the birth of Total Information Awareness, a kind of Echelon on steroids introduced a year after 9/11.

TIA was not canned, it was simply removed from the newspaper, renamed and continues to operate under a guise of different programs.

(Article continues below)

3) USA Patriot Act II

The second Patriot Act was a mirror image of powers that Julius Caesar and Adolf Hitler gave themselves. Whereas the First Patriot Act only gutted the First, Third, Fourth and Fifth Amendments, and seriously damaged the Seventh and the Tenth, the Second Patriot Act reorganized the entire Federal government as well as many areas of state government under the dictatorial control of the Justice Department, the Office of Homeland Security and the FEMA NORTHCOM military command.

The Domestic Security Enhancement Act 2003, also known as the Second Patriot Act is by its very structure the definition of dictatorship.

4) Military Commissions Act

Slamming the final nail in the coffin of everything America used to stand for, the boot-licking U.S. Senate gave President Bush the legal authority to abduct and sexually mutilate American citizens and American children in the name of the war on terror in passing the Military Commissions Act and officially ending Habeas Corpus.

There is nothing in the "detainee" legislation that protects American citizens from being kidnapped by their own government and tortured.

The New York Times stated that the legislation introduced, "A dangerously broad definition of “illegal enemy combatant” in the bill could subject legal residents of the United States, as well as foreign citizens living in their own countries, to summary arrest and indefinite detention with no hope of appeal. The president could give the power to apply this label to anyone he wanted."

Yale Law Professor Bruce Ackerman states in the L.A. Times, "The compromise legislation....authorizes the president to seize American citizens as enemy combatants, even if they have never left the United States. And once thrown into military prison, they cannot expect a trial by their peers or any other of the normal protections of the Bill of Rights."

Similarly, law Professor Marty Lederman explains: "this [subsection (ii) of the definition of 'unlawful enemy combatant'] means that if the Pentagon says you're an unlawful enemy combatant -- using whatever criteria they wish -- then as far as Congress, and U.S. law, is concerned, you are one, whether or not you have had any connection to 'hostilities' at all."

5) John Warner Defense Authorization Act

The Bush Junta quietly "tooled up" to utilize the U.S. military in engaging American dissidents after the next big crisis, with a frightening and overlooked piece of legislation that was passed alongside the Military Commissions Act, the John Warner Defense Authorization Act, which greased the skids for armed confrontation and abolishes posse comitatus.

6) Illegal Domestic Wiretapping Program

"Months after the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush secretly authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States to search for evidence of terrorist activity without the court-approved warrants ordinarily required for domestic spying, according to government officials," reported the New York Times on December 16, 2005

The secret warrantless spying program was a complete violation of both the 4th Amendment and FISA.

7) Expansion of Illegal Domestic Wiretapping Program

Not content with now being lawfully allowed to force ISP's and cell phone companies to turn over data about customers without a warrant, the Bush administration is pushing for even more authority to spy on American citizens, and has already been handed a 6 month window within which to impose any surveillance policy it likes, and for that program to remain legal in perpetuity.

The administration has a 6 month window in which to impose any surveillance program it chooses and that program will go unchallenged and remain legally binding in perpetuity - it cannot be revoked. Under the definitions of the legislation, Bush has been granted absolute dictator status for a minimum of 6 months.

If he so chooses, and so long as it's implemented within the next half year, Bush could build a database of every website visited by every American - and the policy would be immune from Congressional challenge even after the "surveillance gap" legislation reaches its sunset

8 ) Martial Law Presidential Decision Directive 51

New legislation signed on May 9, 2007, declares that in the event of a "catastrophic event", the President can take total control over the government and the country, bypassing all other levels of government at the state, federal, local, territorial and tribal levels, and thus ensuring total unprecedented dictatorial power.

The National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive, which also places the Secretary of Homeland Security in charge of domestic "security", was signed earlier this month without the approval or oversight of Congress and seemingly supercedes the National Emergency Act which allows the president to declare a national emergency but also requires that Congress have the authority to "modify, rescind, or render dormant" such emergency authority if it believes the president has acted inappropriately.

9) Destruction of the Dollar

Former World Bank Vice President, Chief Economist and Nobel Prize winner Joseph Stiglitz has predicted a global economic crash within 24 months - unless the current downturn is successfully managed. Asked if the situation was being properly handled Stiglitz emphatically responded "no,".

Stiglitz caused controversy in October 2001 when he exposed rampant corruption within the IMF and blew the whistle on their nefarious methods of inducing countries to fall under their debt before stripping them of sovereignty and hollowing out their economies. Stiglitz agreed that the process of hijacking and looting key infrastructure on the part of the IMF and World Bank, as an offshoot of predatory globalization, had now moved from the third world to Europe, the United States and Canada.

10) Amnesty & The North American Union

The open plan to merge the US with Mexico and Canada and create a Pan American Union has long been a Globalist brainchild but its very real and prescient implementation on behalf of the Council on Foreign Relations has finally been reported on by mainstream news outlets.

The framework on which the American Union is being pegged is the NAFTA Super Highway, a four football-fields-wide leviathan that stretches from southern Mexico through the US up to Montreal Canada .Coupled with Bush's blanket amnesty program, the Pan American Union is the final jigsaw piece for the total dismantling of America as we know it.

i can provide the news links to all of these articles :'(
: Another 9/11
: [Ht]LOx August 10, 2007, 03:01:31 PM
Pitching For More Dead Americans: A Neo-Con Fetish
The Ward Churchill of the demented right-wing has a deathwish for terror in order to unite the country

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Friday, August 10, 2007

Another feverish Neo-Con has come out of the closet and admitted to enjoying the fetish that he shares with scores of other Administration apologists - a deathwish for more terror and more dead Americans in order to unite the country behind Bush.

    "ONE MONTH from The Anniversary, I'm thinking another 9/11 would help America," laments Stu Bykofsky in his Philadelphia Daily News column.

    "Remember the community of outrage and national resolve? America had not been so united since the first Day of Infamy - 12/7/41.

    We knew who the enemy was then.

    America's fabric is pulling apart like a cheap sweater.

    What would sew us back together?

    Another 9/11 attack.
    It will take another attack on the homeland to quell the chattering of chipmunks and to restore America's righteous rage and singular purpose to prevail."

That's right - we need more terror or the terrorists will win!

Bykofsky is disappointed that 600,000 plus dead civilians along with thousands of slain troops in Iraq isn't enough to convince Americans that the war should be prosecuted with more vigor, so he's yearning for a kick up the backside in the form of thousands of dead Americans at home.

One could be forgiven for being cynical and thinking that Bykofsky, a plodding Neo-Con hack who nobody had heard of before last night, was just pushing the boat out in a desperate ploy to get a link on the Drudge Report, but reading his previous frenzied Bush administration boot-licking columns it becomes clear that Bykofsky actually means it.

Bykofsky screeches about the perils of "global terrorists who use Islam to justify their hideous sins, including blowing up women and children," and then invites them to slaughter more Americans - and even helps pinpoint the targets they should attack!

"The Golden Gate Bridge. Mount Rushmore. Chicago's Wrigley Field. The Philadelphia subway system," gushes Bykofsky.

Perhaps he should volunteer to send his own kids into those targets as jumbo jets are slammed into them, since Bykofsky is so eager to witness more American blood spilled in the name of the empire.

Or is there a greater threat? If Bykofsky has the courage of his convictions behind him, would he be willing to strap himself with explosives and run into a crowded shopping mall for the good of the country?

Obviously not, but only in using such extreme examples as a parallel can we begin to fathom the vulgarity of Bykofsky's remarks.


Heroes and villains - The brave firefighters that ran into burning buildings on 9/11 to save those that perished with them, and Stu Bykofsky - a morally repugnant Neo-Con slug who yearns for more scenes like this to rescue the reputation of his master, George W. Bush.

Bykofsky's warped logic is not confined to the domain of attention seeking hacks - the yearning for terror is a shared fetish amongst Neo-Cons, policy wonks and academics alike.

Lt.-Col. Doug Delaney, chair of the war studies program at the Royal Military College in Kingston, Ontario, recently told the Toronto Star that "The key to bolstering Western resolve is another terrorist attack like 9/11 or the London transit bombings of two years ago."

The same sentiment was also explicitly expressed in a 2005 GOP memo, which yearned for new attacks that would "validate" the President's war on terror and "restore his image as a leader of the American people."

Last month, former Republican Senator Rick Santorum suggested that a series of "unfortunate events," namely terrorist attacks, will occur within the next year and change American citizen's perception of the war.

And the month before that, the new chairman of the Arkansas Republican Party Dennis Milligan said that there needed to be more attacks on American soil for President Bush to regain popular approval.

An army of Neo-Cons secretly share the same fetish - they would exploit a hollow opportunity to say "I told you so," even at the expense of thousands of dead dads, moms, sons, daughters and babies.

Bykofsky and his cohorts are so aghast that the majority of Americans now take them for what they are - maniacal devotees to a blood soaked and failed neo-conservative doctrine - that they'd rather see innocent people be blown to bits than admit they're wrong.

In some countries, this kind of demented rhetoric is illegal - it's classified as glorification of terror in Britain, and their rants are no less volatile than some of the propaganda spewed by Muslim clerics who have been arrested and deported for advocating violence.

These rabid blowhards should be thankful that America still clings on to its first amendment - in the face of a terrorist assault that they encourage - otherwise they would soon find out that openly pitching for mass murder doesn't sit too well with the authorities.

Bykofsky has just written himself into history as the Ward Churchill of the delirious right-wing and the two share a lot in common.

Both express the uncanny ability of being able to match the ignorance of their comments with the depth of their depravity.

links to the articles ( ( ( ( (
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Mad August 10, 2007, 03:47:36 PM
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 10, 2007, 07:44:27 PM
9/11/2001: Sen. John Edwards Refuses To Answer Whether Or Not 9/11 Was Carried Out By Forces Within The U.S. (
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: warning August 10, 2007, 08:12:51 PM
::) (

Okay lox i'll link it.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 10, 2007, 10:04:30 PM
why do you have to spam my thread like that warning some people look at my threads you don't have to spam it dude. Not Cool
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Mad August 10, 2007, 10:11:11 PM

<Chii> [Ht]Mad|: Dr loxopus is a stanky bitch.
: Great Pics
: [Ht]LOx August 11, 2007, 09:43:18 AM
: New Fire Fighter Interview
: [Ht]LOx August 14, 2007, 02:18:49 PM ( such a fucking inside job
: Re: New Fire Fighter Interview
: MrMaroon5 August 14, 2007, 03:43:22 PM ( such a fucking inside job

That is proof? One firefighter says there was an eplosion in the lobby? Was this a backdraft down the elevator chute? A gas pipe explosion?

History and stories are interesting, it really depends on who is telling the story. Just read Ht's history on the main page. A lot of people hate Ht and I say good, that is because they hate getting their asses handed to them repeatedily. But, we sould like a good bunch of guys when we write it ourselves. Facts need to be interpreted and missing just one can paint a totally different picture.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 14, 2007, 05:11:24 PM

sup maroon how many fire fighters did you count?
how many people did you count?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 August 14, 2007, 07:44:33 PM

sup maroon how many fire fighters did you count?
how many people did you count?

LOOOX. Hey man. I am refering to the person in the interview.
Here is my thing with the conspiracy. There definatly is one. The goverment knows lots more than they will ever tell the public. Maybe in 100 years the truth as known by the goverment will be known.
But this thing that the goverment was involved, knew, helped, planned it. Maybe. There is a lot of money to be made. Dick Cheney is getting richer by his military food vending business in Iraq. Bush is profiting by the increase oil prices; which is mostly in refining not in raw per barrell price.
But, all the consipracy theories are just that, theries. Because all the info is so patchy.
For me to draw any conclusions of building failure as a ME, I would have to had millions for testing and data collection along with the manpower. And, it would have needed to be done immediatly after the crash.
So, the truth is out there, but only a few know because they have all the information and they aren't sharing.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 14, 2007, 10:21:52 PM
thing is maroon people don't want to believe that the goverment will kill them for personal gains.

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 August 16, 2007, 11:15:07 AM
thing is maroon people don't want to believe that the goverment will kill them for personal gains.


The goverment is made up of businessmen. And, large corporations will squash technology and kill you for profit. It has always been that way.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 16, 2007, 01:19:53 PM
Bush Approves Use Of Domestic Spy Satellites

Joby Warrick
Washington Post
Thursday, August 16, 2007

The Bush administration has approved a plan to expand domestic access to some of the most powerful tools of 21st-century spycraft, giving law enforcement officials and others the ability to view data obtained from satellite and aircraft sensors that can see through cloud cover and even penetrate buildings and underground bunkers.

A program approved by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and the Department of Homeland Security will allow broader domestic use of secret overhead imagery beginning as early as this fall, with the expectation that state and local law enforcement officials will eventually be able to tap into technology once largely restricted to foreign surveillance.

Administration officials say the program will give domestic security and emergency preparedness agencies new capabilities in dealing with a range of threats, from illegal immigration and terrorism to hurricanes and forest fires. But the program, described yesterday by the Wall Street Journal, quickly provoked opposition from civil liberties advocates, who said the government is crossing a well-established line against the use of military assets in domestic law enforcement.

Although the federal government has long permitted the use of spy-satellite imagery for certain scientific functions -- such as creating topographic maps or monitoring volcanic activity -- the administration's decision would provide domestic authorities with unprecedented access to high-resolution, real-time satellite photos.

They could also have access to much more. A statement issued yesterday by the Department of Homeland Security said that officials envision "more robust access" not only to imagery but also to "the collection, analysis and production skills and capabilities of the intelligence community."

The beneficiaries may include "federal, state, local and tribal elements" involved in emergency preparedness and response or "enforcement of criminal and civil laws." The "tribal" reference was to Native Americans who conduct semiautonomous law enforcement operations on reservations.

"These systems are already used to help us respond to crises," Charles Allen, the chief intelligence officer for the Department of Homeland Security, said in a telephone interview. "We anticipate that we can also use it to protect Americans by preventing the entry of dangerous people and goods into the country, and by helping us examine critical infrastructure for vulnerabilities."

Domestic security officials already have access to commercial satellite imagery, including the high-definition photographs available from Google and other private vendors. But spy satellites offer much greater resolution and provide images in real time, said Jeffrey T. Richelson, an expert on space-based surveillance and a senior fellow with the National Security Archive in Washington.

"You also can get more coverage more often," Richelson said. "These satellites will cover during the course of their orbits the entire United States. They will be operating 24 hours a day and using infrared cameras at night."

Other nonvisual capabilities can be provided by aircraft-based sensors, which include ground-penetrating radar and highly sensitive detectors that can sense electromagnetic activity, radioactivity or traces of chemicals, military experts said. Such radar can be used to find objects hidden in buildings or bunkers.

One possible use of the technology would be to spot staging areas along smuggling routes used to transport narcotics or illegal immigrants, officials said. In a handful of cases, security officials have requested -- and obtained -- similar help, but only on a case-by-case basis.

Allen said the agreement with the DNI grew out of the general impetus for wider intelligence-sharing in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, when administration and intelligence officials began examining the possibility of increasing officials' access to secret data as a means of strengthening the nation's defenses.

The program was formally authorized in May in a memo by Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell to Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff. The two officials have been coordinating for months, as recommended in a 2005 study headed by Keith Hall, then the director of the National Reconnaissance Office.

Hall's group cited an "urgent need" for expanding sharing of remote sensing data to domestic groups other than scientific researchers. "Opportunities to better protect the nation are being missed," the report said.

Under the new program, the DHS will create a subordinate agency to be known as the National Applications Office. The new office, which has gained the backing of congressional intelligence and appropriations committees, is responsible for coordinating requests for access to intelligence by civilian agencies. Previously, an agency known as the Civilian Applications Committee facilitated access to satellite imagery for geologic study.

Oversight of the department's use of the overhead imagery data would come from officials in the Department of Homeland Security and from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and would consist of reviews by agency inspectors general, lawyers and privacy officers. "We can give total assurance" that Americans' civil liberties will be protected, Allen said. "Americans shouldn't have any concerns about it."

But civil liberties groups quickly condemned the move, which Kate Martin, director of the Center for National Security Studies, a nonprofit activist group, likened to "Big Brother in the sky." "They want to turn these enormous spy capabilities, built to be used against overseas enemies, onto Americans," Martin said. "They are laying the bricks one at a time for a police state."

Steven Aftergood, director of the Project on Government Secrecy for the Federation of American Scientists, said that the data could be useful but that oversight for the program was woefully inadequate. Enhanced access "shouldn't be adopted at all costs because it comes with risk to privacy and to the integrity of our political institutions," he said.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Mad August 17, 2007, 03:49:58 AM
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 20, 2007, 11:16:03 AM
Ground Zero Building Catches Fire, Doesn't Collapse

The 40 story Deutsche Bank building next to the ground zero site in New York, where the world trade center once stood, caught fire yesterday and burned intensely for seven hours without collapsing

This represents another modern day miracle in light of the commonly accepted premise that since 9/11, all steel buildings that suffer limited fire damage implode within two hours. This building had even suffered structural damage on 9/11 and had been partially dismantled.

The raging fire, which killed two firefighters, was finally declared under control late saturday afternoon, a full seven hours after it had begun to burn.

On 9/11 the south tower of the WTC burned for just 56 minutes before collapsing, while the north tower lasted around an hour and 45 minutes. According to the official transcripts of the firefighter tapes , fires in both towers were almost out immediately before the collapses.

The saving grace that could have prevented Deutsche Bank from imploding may have been the fact that it was not hit by a plane, as the twin towers were on 9/11.

However, the absence of a jet strike wasn't enough to prevent WTC 7 from crumbling into its own footprint within 7 seconds later that fateful afternoon.

Hundreds of buildings worldwide suffered major fires that gutted the entire facade of their structure before 9/11 and did not collapse, but since the twin towers behaved differently, rather than consider an alternative explanation for the collapse of the towers, experts simply decided to reverse the fundamental precepts of all known physics to make it easier for everyone to understand.

Since that time, it has been commonly accepted that limited fires in tall buildings are 99% certain to cause an almost instantaneous collapse.

More pictures and an AP report on the latest blaze follow.


: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 August 20, 2007, 12:03:34 PM
The twin towers were over 100 stories. At this height, the wind sheer is a lot more than 40 stories. The design was different than the truss design of the twin towers. Once the bolts were overstressed they failled. Just using hot rivits instead of bolts could prevented collapse.

But, if you want to talk about possibilities. go get a ME degree and we can talk.

Blow - Architect's Analysis
Many people asked why the US WTC twin steel towers in New York couldn't survive the terrorist attacks and instead of withstanding the bump of the planes they collapsed and were practically razed?

People's queries were mainly about why the twin towers fell all of a lump when they were merely hit on the upper and middle part? And why they directly fell down instead of toppled over from above?

People saw a big fire with dozens of tons of aircraft fuel at first that had done its work in softening and melting away all steels struck. Soon after collapsing of the upper stories, heat was conducted to stories below as is seen in a "domino effect" leading to the destruction of the two steel structures in their entirety. After watching videos experts say that it was not the damages inflicted but the big fire followed in destroying the two towers.

Professor Wu Huanjia from Qinghua University says in an interview that the big fire must be to blame for softening and melting away the steel, paralyzing and destruction of the towers as mere plane crash is not strong enough to topple the two large tower structures.

There were also intrinsic flaws with skyscrapers that had led to the fall of the WTC towers, for such architectural giants must be built of steel, which softens by heat and loses its strength. Of course, refractory coating must be applied when the towers were constructed but you can never expect them to endure such large conflagrations.

When constructed, experts say, the towers had been designed to survive hitting short of complete fire-fighting and anti-blast systems to be built. If the plane crash hit the towers' lower part, fire could probably be put under control and such a devastating disaster might be averted. So one can see the attacks were well knotted by the extremely intelligent terrorists.

Qian Jiaru, a civil engineering professor from Qinghua University, tells reporter that the WTC towers were supported by intense steel poles as world advanced architectural structures at that time. Why the Empire State Building, built 40 years earlier than WTC towers, didn't collapse when hit by an American military airplane in 1943? This is because that airplane was relatively small and carried less fuel that didn't cause big fires. On the other hand, the Empire State Building has steel pole supports and concrete fireproof coating that can endure bigger fire.

Besides, for an architect in designing a building he would surely consider such factors as wind, earthquake and fire though impossible for him to foresee suicidal airplane crashes, not to say airplanes loaded with some dozens tons of aviation fuel to cause bigger fires than ordinary ones.

This time's Boeing 757 belongs to a model that can carry 35 tons of fuel and Boeing 767 51 tons. They are long-distance flights from east America to the west so estimated fully loaded. Soon after take-off they changed route with only a little fuel consumed, as a result almost all top-quality fuel was poured into the twin towers.

The fully loaded 757 airplane was no less than a "super flying bomb", expert says. Calculation shows a 757 can carry a total weight of 20 tons on top of 35 tons weight of airplane itself and fuel, and a flying speed of 900 km/hour equals to a weight of 495,000 tons, altogether it gathers an equivalent force of about 20,000 kg yellow explosives.

Most high buildings would be reinforced to carry weight and resist earthquake, but not for fire and explosion. It is enough for 800 kg yellow explosives to destroy a 50-storied building. Therefore inestimable damages are caused by 20,000 explosive capacity plus high speed hits.

By PD Online Staff Li Heng

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 20, 2007, 12:53:50 PM
we should all know that bombs were going off by all of the news shows and fire fighter interviews
gg. for that only jet fuel bullshit
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 August 20, 2007, 01:03:38 PM
Last night I had a fire in my fire place all night. According to the white hot color of the coals, the temperature reached in excess of 2000 degrees. This fire burned well over 6 hours.
Since my house is a wood framed house and did not collapse, there is no way a fire burning for only an hour could collapse a steel framed building.
Thus, here is difinitive proof that there was an inside job on 911.
Since it was an inside job, the only orginization with sufficient funds and manpower is the US goverment.
Now, my fire last night proves the corruption of the US goverment.

Futhermore, the answer is 42. Even futher collobarating my experiemnt.  (<---Bonus points on this reference if you can name where it comes from)
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 20, 2007, 03:29:57 PM
how was that funny?  ???
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 August 20, 2007, 03:41:29 PM
how was that funny?  ???
It is not funny. But it is an example of how misconsstrued logic to prove facts can cause improper conclusions.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 20, 2007, 04:42:34 PM <------so this MIT engy is wrong? <-------check that list <--------hey larry said "pull it" so you gotta "pull it" riiight?
: Many Keys To One Door
: [Ht]LOx August 20, 2007, 11:37:27 PM
9/11 Security Courtesy of Marvin Bush

Marvin P. Bush, the president’s younger brother, was a principal in a company called Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles International Airport. The company, Burns noted, was backed by KuwAm, a Kuwaiti-American investment firm on whose board Marvin Burns also served

link to it

According to its present CEO, Barry McDaniel, the company had an ongoing contract to handle security at the World Trade Center "up to the day the buildings fell down."
The company lists as government clients "the U.S. Army, U.S. Navy, U.S Air force, and the Department of Justice," in projects that "often require state-of-the-art security solutions for classified or high-risk government sites."

Stratesec (Securacom) differs from other security companies which separate the function of consultant from that of service provider. The company defines itself as a "single-source" provider of "end-to-end" security services, including everything from diagnosis of existing systems to hiring subcontractors to installing video and electronic equipment. It also provides armored vehicles and security guards.

The Dulles Internation contract is another matter. Dulles is regarded as "absolutely a sensitive airport," according to security consultant Wayne Black, head of a Florida-based security firm, due to its location, size, and the number of international carriers it serves.

Black has not heard of Stratesec, but responds that for one company to handle security for both airports and airlines is somewhat unusual. It is also delicate for a security firm serving international facilities to be so interlinked with a foreign-owned company: "Somebody knew somebody," he suggested, or the contract would have been more closely scrutinized.

The World Trade Center was destroyed just days after a heightened security alert was lifted at the landmark 110-story towers, security personnel said yesterday [September 11]. Daria Coard, 37, a guard at Tower One, said the security detail had been working 12-hour shifts for the past two weeks because of numerous phone threats. But on Thursday [September 6], bomb-sniffing dogs were abruptly removed.     [NY Newsday]

On the weekend of 9/8, 9/9 there was a 'power down' condition in WTC tower 2, the south tower. This power down condition meant there was no electrical supply for approx 36 hrs from floor 50 up... "Of course without power there were no security cameras, no security locks on doors and many, many 'engineers' coming in and out of the tower." [WingTV]

link to a video and news link

President Bush's cousin should have been in the World Trade Centre when it was attacked. Jim Pierce, managing director of AON Corporations, had arranged a business conference on the 105th floor of the South Tower where its New York offices were based. But his group was too large so they decided to move across the street to the Millennium Hotel. [Annova]

link to this article

'If they had continued on and exited the building, all of their lives would have been spared. As it was, that's not the way it happened. "As soon as we reached the concourse level, the security guard stopped us and said, 'Where are you going?' Stanley explained about seeing the fire in Tower One. According to Stanley, the guard said, "Oh, that was just an accident. Two World Trade is secured. Go back to your office."'

link to this article

"Today it is still a mystery why no-one in the towers reached the roof..."

The solution to the mystery is simple - the roof doors were locked, as were many stairwell doors.

a link and many links of these people's accounts

WTC surveillance tapes feared missing
         Imagine my surprise...

Surveillance tapes and maintenance logs are among the missing evidence as investigators try to figure out why the World Trade Center collapsed, federal officials said Monday. ... The lost records probably contain vital information that could help answer questions, Sunder said. Investigators are trying to locate copies of many destroyed documents from the building's owners and city agencies.

a link to this also

That is proof? One firefighter says there was an eplosion in the lobby? Was this a backdraft down the elevator chute? A gas pipe explosion?

sorry maroon gas was off

Shaped Charges and the World Trade Center Collapses
( <--from the history channel


now how many planes can we eat?

We are told that there were no survivors from above the aircraft impact level of WTC 1...

The jet fuel caused the fire to spread so far and so fast that it effectively cut the building into two. For the 6,000 people below where the plane had hit the staircases still offered a means of escape, but for the 950 caught above the point of impact and the fire there was no way out. [BBC Horizon] NOT TRUE

...but the following interview aired on 9/12/2001 proves this is untrue as it documents Mary Baldizzi's escalator descent from the 104th floor of the building. <-yahoo

We Throw Steel Beams With FIRE Hands

Then We Destroy All The Evidence In A Criminal Investigation And Recycle It OverSeas

I Forgot We Made Lava Also
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 August 21, 2007, 12:23:45 AM
Do you have any links from people who saw or have knowledge of the buildings being prepped for this conspiracy?
Also, the problem with all this "proof" of conspiracy engineering calculations is this; they don't ever admit that there was chaos in the system.
Which is impossible to predict or calculate. That is why missles have dynamic guidance systems.
All these proofs of failure try to predict total failure and forget the chaos. When engineering something this massive, the safety factor is usually 2 or more. Which means, that it can withstand at least twice the extreme forces that would cause it to fail.
I have never seen the assumptions that were used in the failure model, but I know they didn't predict a plane that big or an explosion that big. So, the forces of that event might very well have been more than anybody ever estimated for a failure model.

Look at the recent bridge collapse. The thing just fatigued into failure without any dramatic event. It is entirely possible those buildings fatigued into failure after a plane crash and explosion.
Everything can't be calculated into an answer. That is why after initial calculations are preformed, model testing and material testing are preformed.

Maybe the goverment destroyed the Heartford Civic center as well.

Also, sometimes mechanical fabricators take it unto themselves to make design changes to save time and money. Occasionally these things are passed in inspection, covered up with the building finishing, and later are found out to be failure points.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 21, 2007, 01:26:30 AM
1. 85% of the links i provide are main stream news
2.i provide links of fire fighters talking about bombs and molten steel
3.if the plane fucked every thing up how did the lady take the elevator down from the 104th floor?
4.i have provided a site with 300+ people with all kinds of educational backgrounds
5.When is the last time you've heard of law enforcement removing and destroying evidence from a crime scene?
6.When is the last time you've heard of a vice president getting command of NORAD? (
7.why are some of the hi-jackers alive? here are a couple main stream reports ( ( ( (

Guess They Just Came Back From The Dead

these guys also
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 August 21, 2007, 10:26:30 AM
Lox, you got tons and tons of convoluted information.
And, it is near impossible for any molten steel to be in this building. There were have to have been tons of insulated magnisium or thermalite near the beams.

One of the worst studies of what happened on this issue was done by Purdue. They were funded by goverment agencies to prove how the plane toppled the building. After a few years of studies, they produced this animation of what happened inside the building. Cool animation but all the assumptions to get to that place were sketchy at best. Just to have a video with a montage of clips, animation, and a directing narrative is just BS.

Now, one of the most interging papers I have seen shows something disturbing. It just ignores anything that happened in the building except the crash time line. And, it looks at the seisemic data in the area. There was more seisemic data than just a plane crash before the building toppled. So, that means that there was some other explosion (could have been natural gas) or there was an earth quake just before the topple. Now, I am assuming the data form wasn't fabricated. So what was the other thump before the topple?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 22, 2007, 12:44:10 AM
the full video to a video i posted before if this doesn't get into ur head maybe a bullet should (
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD August 22, 2007, 02:27:25 PM
I have one for you.

you remember the guy in the OK city bombing referred to as John Doe ,well this TV reporter named Jayna Davis kept at it until she found the guy, she put it all on tv and basicly did the FBI's job for them, which pissed them all off.

now this is where it gets good, the guy sued her in federal court for defamation and harassment saying he wasn't the guy and she was ruining his good name,well he lost the case because she proved it to the judge that he was there and was John Doe.

she beat the guy in federal court and yet no one in the federal govt will even investigate the guy.

now for the kicker, the guy was working on the tarmac at Boston's Logan airport as a flight services guy on 9/11,talk about a coincedence.

I am not going to hunt down all these links but all you have to do is google Jayna Davis and you will find damn near all of this.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 22, 2007, 03:38:56 PM
WHAT GUY?!?! @ boston's Logan airport as a flight services guy on 9/11

and yeah i know ok city bombing was an inside job also
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Mad August 22, 2007, 03:50:39 PM
WHAT GUY?!?! @ boston's Logan airport as a flight services guy on 9/11

and yeah i know ok city bombing was an inside job also

lol, it's all an inside job isn't it lox. Is the 50 Cent feud vs Kanye West just formulated by George Bush tot ake the heat off of him and put it on the real ruler of the US???

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 August 22, 2007, 09:14:11 PM

I beleive that there is plenty of shit the goverment keeps from us about this stuff. Also, I beleive that there was knowledge about it before hand, but they can't check out every lead everybody calls in.

Also, I see lots of profit and benefit from 911 for businesses before and after. Including Georgie's and Dick's.

But, what was the benefit of Oaklahoma? There is plenty of coverup to prevent mass panic. But what is the inside job?

Also, you post endless clips and theories. I think most people beleive there is cover up afterwards. Setup bfore hand is debated much more.
But what do you, Lox, think what happened?
The reason I ask is because some of the links and videos have different opinions and theories.
And, no I haven't watched all of them or read all of them. I don't have that much free time.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 22, 2007, 10:45:35 PM
just some of the things i have read on the ok city bombing im not backing it a %100 i just started researching it but it is showing signs of one. ( (
: My Reasons
: [Ht]LOx August 23, 2007, 03:03:29 AM
As for what i think happened on 9/11 is this.

1st Reason

Then don’t forget about the September 2000 report from the neo-conservative think tank PNAC, called “Rebuilding America’s Defenses” signed by Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, William Kristol and Paul Wolfowitz, among others.

“Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor. Domestic politics and industrial policy will shape the pace and content of transformation as much as the requirements of current missions.” —Rebuilding America’s Defenses – p51 – p63 of pdf file   Sept 2000

Link To The PDF File (

2nd Reason


Rumsfeld in fact had a vital role to play in coordinating the military response to an attack on the U.S. Andrew Cockburn explains: “Though most people assume that the chain of command runs from the president to the vice president, the cold war bequeathed a significant constitutional readjustment. In an age when an enemy attack might allow only a few minutes for detection and reaction, control of American military power became vested in the National Command Authority, which consists of the president and the secretary of defense. Collectively, the NCA is the ultimate source of military orders, uniquely empowered, among other things, to order the use of nuclear weapons. In time of war, therefore, Rumsfeld was effectively the president’s partner, the direct link to the fighting forces, and all orders had to go through him. Such orders were supposed to be transmitted from . . . the National Military Command Center.” Cockburn adds that the NMCC is “the operational center for any and every crisis, from nuclear war to hijacked airliners.”

The secretary of defense’s specific responsibility in the event of an airplane hijacking was made clear in a July 1997 military instruction, which was slightly revised in June 2001. This stated: “In the event of a hijacking, the NMCC will be notified by the most expeditious means by the FAA [Federal Aviation Administration]. The NMCC will, with the exception of immediate responses as authorized by reference d, forward requests for DOD [Department of Defense] assistance to the secretary of defense for approval.”

The secretary of defense’s specific responsibility in the event of an airplane hijacking was made clear in a July 1997 military instruction, which was slightly revised in June 2001. This stated: “In the event of a hijacking, the NMCC will be notified by the most expeditious means by the FAA [Federal Aviation Administration]. The NMCC will, with the exception of immediate responses as authorized by reference d, forward requests for DOD [Department of Defense] assistance to the secretary of defense for approval.”

As Stated In The "Chairman Of The Joint Chiefs Of Staff Instruction"

Links To This Document And Some Other Info On him During 9/11 To Much To Post

2 Links To The Document ( (
3rd Link To Accounts Of His Actions on 9/11 (

3rd Reason

Agency planned drill for plane crash last Sept. 11
Associated Press
August 22, 2002

WASHINGTON -- In what the government describes as a bizarre coincidence, one U.S. intelligence agency was planning an exercise last Sept. 11 in which an errant aircraft crashed into one of its buildings. But the cause wasn't terrorism -- it was to be a simulated accident.

Officials at the Chantilly, Va.-based National Reconnaissance Office had scheduled an exercise that morning in which a small corporate jet crashed into one of the four towers at the agency's headquarters building after experiencing a mechanical failure.

The agency is about four miles from the runways of Washington Dulles International Airport.

Agency chiefs came up with the scenario to test employees' ability to respond to a disaster, said spokesman Art Haubold. To simulate the damage from the plane, some stairwells and exits were to be closed off, forcing employees to find other ways to evacuate the building.

"It was just an incredible coincidence that this happened to involve an aircraft crashing into our facility," Haubold said. "As soon as the real world events began, we canceled the exercise."

Terrorism was to play no role in the exercise, which had been planned for several months, he said.

Adding to the coincidence, American Airlines Flight 77 -- the Boeing 767 that was hijacked and crashed into the Pentagon -- took off from Dulles at 8:10 a.m. on Sept. 11, 50 minutes before the exercise was to begin. It struck the Pentagon around 9:40 a.m., killing 64 aboard the plane and 125 on the ground.

The National Reconnaissance Office operates many of the nation's spy satellites. It draws its personnel from the military and the CIA.

After the Sept. 11 attacks, most of the 3,000 people who work at agency headquarters were sent home, save for some essential personnel, Haubold said.

An announcement for an upcoming homeland security conference in Chicago first noted the exercise.

In a promotion for speaker John Fulton, a CIA officer assigned as chief of NRO's strategic gaming division, the announcement says, "On the morning of September 11th 2001, Mr. Fulton and his team ... were running a pre-planned simulation to explore the emergency response issues that would be created if a plane were to strike a building. Little did they know that the scenario would come true in a dramatic way that day."

4th Reason A Transcript From Larry King Live on December 21, 2001

KING: You were right here when the Pentagon...


KING: And someone told me that you had spoken to a congressional delegation...

RUMSFELD: Right here in this room.

KING: ... in this room about terrorism that morning. RUMSFELD: I had said at -- I had an 8 o'clock breakfast -- that sometime in the next two, four, six, eight, 10, 12 months, there would be an event that would occur in the world that would be sufficiently shocking that it would remind people, again, how important it is to have a strong, healthy Defense Department that contributes -- that underpins peace and stability in our world. And that is what underpins peace and stability. It's the fact -- we can't have healthy economies and active lives unless we live in a peaceful, stabile world. And I said that to these people.

And someone walked in and handed a note that said that a plane had just hit the World Trade Center. And we adjourned the meeting. And I went in to get my CIA briefing right next door here, and the whole building shook within 15 minutes. And it was a jarring thing.

KING: And you ran toward the smoke?


KING: Because?

RUMSFELD: Oh, goodness, who knows? I wanted to see what had happened. I wanted to see if people needed help. And went downstairs and helped for a bit with some people on stretchers. And then I came back up here and started to realize I had to get back up here and get at it.

KING: I know we're out of the allotted time, but Gary Hart has said that he expects -- his commission previously said this would happen. You were pretty prophetic that morning. But it's going to happen again.

RUMSFELD: Well, we have to recognize that it's a dangerous and untidy world. There's a lot of very powerful, lethal weapons that exist and ways that people can impose enormous damage. And we have to be vigilant. We have to be willing to invest to see that we have the kinds of capabilities that we can deter and defend and, where necessary, preempt.

KING: But it's an every-minute job.

RUMSFELD: It is. It is.

KING: Thank you, as always.

RUMSFELD: Thank you. Appreciate it.

KING: Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.

Link To The Cnn Transcript (

My 5th Reason Is This Video (

1.I don't know how else to open peoples minds on this forum.
2.I had friends that died in thoese buildings.
3.I was supposed to be in thoese buildings that day heading to jersey around the same time but my clothes were not dry.
4.I have researched 9/11 for over 3 years and just started saying it was an inside job last winter
i didn't want to jump the gun like some people on this forum. I believed the offical story until i researched it and found out it was all LIES
5.I care about this country and if it takes me posting on this forum and others to get the word out then so be it. As long as i have the blessing of Mr.Madleon
6.They have already kill over 3,000+ people does it take 3 million for you people to wake up? over 3,722 soldiers have died fighting a war which has no basis and no enemy. "There Is Nothing To Win"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (
Still Believe Them?


: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: JacquesShelock August 23, 2007, 09:11:51 AM
That Goering quote has always been one of my favorites.

I'm with Lox  ;)

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 August 23, 2007, 12:04:07 PM
The president doesn't get to know everything or controll everything.

One interesting thing said by Rodger Clinton, Bill's brother.

Bill said if he ever became president, he wanted to know about area 51 and the Kennedy assasination.
When he confronted people who might know, they told hime they didn't or it was classified even for him.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Mad August 23, 2007, 01:30:08 PM
Red (necks), White (trash) and Blue (collar)?

hohoho.  ::)
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy August 24, 2007, 03:26:08 AM

I got you ..

Here is my little contribution ..

THIS is what a Jet looks like when it is REALLY LOW, and moving REALLY FAST ...
(cool in and of it's self)

THIS is the "BEST" and "ONLY" footage of the Pentagon hit..

Watch the whole thing so you can see the patrol car go by CLOSE to the Camera, and seems it goes by SLOW and Obvioussly a car...

Then look at the "Plane" hit the ground and then BAM next frame, it's in the building..

ok yes, Speed, but there is NO WAY that is a Jet of any significant size there .. you can actually see a smaller shape hitting the ground the first frame it appears ..

With the distance farther away from the cam, it is obvious you would see more.. Look at the refresh rate in the play back and again at the car.. 

Then at the explosion ..

You mean to tell me, you can see three or 4 frames of that explosion before it hits the top of the screen, but you only see one frame of a jet plane ?  what's faster a plane, or an explosion .. i'm not sure myself.. just asking...

I would love to know how fast the car was going, I am sure there is someway to calculate the distance from that point , to the distance the "plane" hit, and then calculate the speed of the "Plane" based on that math .. Anyway, that is beyond my math ..

Also,  look at the skip in the playback when the "plane" hits..You can, with some trying, get it to pause right when the object appears, and it is clearly no Nose of a jet ..

The other obvious is the "flight 93 wreckage" footage

 lox had already shown us. Debri Everywhere. It was so obvioussly blown to shot in the air ..  Why they wouldn't even admit to that part after what happened in NYC is beyond me..

It would seem prudent to blow that thing out of the sky if it might do damage somewhere..

One cover up deserves another ?


God Help us .. Our govt. won't ...
Listen to those Eye witness accounts..

New York PD, FD, Citizens , Newsmen and Women all claiming explosions, and Demo's ..

Please people wake up ..
Like I said, maybe it wasnt our govt. bringing those planes in , but the buildings were wired for one reason or another. A decisin was made, and the buildings were pulled..


HOW IN THE WORLD Did such a poorly built building Withstand it's Sister falling down at it's Base ?
They were pulled ..

Poiny iss, Major conspiracy, or major cover up, they need to be telling the truth, and they need to be held accountable for their failings..

Instead they got rich by the war machine ... and have left our country in it's most precarious state probably in it's history (since the World Wars at least) ....

Last one is this in my book an obvious illustration that Explosives were somehow in place prior to the "attack" ..

Apparently it takes time to set these types of charges up, and couldn't have been done that quickly after the planes hit...

I know some of this is repeated, but they are the points that I PERSONALLY have trouble swallowing and or have trouble getting them to add up and equalling the "official" story ..

I like the part about Enron and WorldCom ..
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: warning August 24, 2007, 03:43:49 AM


That is the post icon for this thread.

The top flame represents the plane crash.

The bottom plane represents the controlled demolition charges that were secretly set in one of the most populated buildings in new york city without anyone noticing.

The red arrow represents everyone running from the building.

The little corner up top is the building starting fall.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy August 24, 2007, 03:56:31 AM


That is the post icon for this thread.

The top flame represents the plane crash.

The bottom plane represents the controlled demolition charges that were secretly set in one of the most populated buildings in new york city without anyone noticing.

The red arrow represents everyone running from the building.

The little corner up top is the building starting fall.

Yeah this really makes a point ...
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: JacquesShelock August 24, 2007, 09:49:59 AM
I figured I would put my Flight 93 story to the mix.

Being ex-military and a Louisiana resident I have the priviledge of knowing the pilot that flies all of the top brass in the state.  When 9/11 happened, I'm sure you will all remember that Bush flew on Air Force One to Barksdale Air Force Base, in Shreveport, LA.  My pilot friend was summoned to fly the top general in the state from New Orleans to Shreveport to meet the President.

About halfway there the general gets a message and says to my pilot friend, "We just shot one down in Pennsylvania."

Believe it or not but the guy is pretty trustworthy and wouldn't make it up.  Since Flight 93 was way late in the sequence there was ample time for the shot down scenario.  The lack of a tail section at the crash scene (or any other "real" parts for that matter) would be consistent with a rear shot.

That's just a few of the first results of a Google "flight 93 tail section" search.  There are of course many similarities between the Flight 93 crash scene and the Pentagon crash scene (missing parts, nice pretty holes, etc.)  I'm too lazy to find and document it but I remember reading that pieces of the plane (an engine, other stuff) were found miles away which could not have happened if the plane simply crashed.

Check out the cell phone transcripts that supposedly came from Flight 93, which also yielded that famous "Let's roll!"  Sure does sound like some good propaganda to put out - good Americans fighting terror in the skies.  Also a better story than, "We had to kill our own people."

Just my .02

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 August 24, 2007, 10:30:52 AM
I figured I would put my Flight 93 story to the mix.

Being ex-military and a Louisiana resident I have the priviledge of knowing the pilot that flies all of the top brass in the state.  When 9/11 happened, I'm sure you will all remember that Bush flew on Air Force One to Barksdale Air Force Base, in Shreveport, LA.  My pilot friend was summoned to fly the top general in the state from New Orleans to Shreveport to meet the President.

About halfway there the general gets a message and says to my pilot friend, "We just shot one down in Pennsylvania."

Believe it or not but the guy is pretty trustworthy and wouldn't make it up.  Since Flight 93 was way late in the sequence there was ample time for the shot down scenario.  The lack of a tail section at the crash scene (or any other "real" parts for that matter) would be consistent with a rear shot.

That's just a few of the first results of a Google "flight 93 tail section" search.  There are of course many similarities between the Flight 93 crash scene and the Pentagon crash scene (missing parts, nice pretty holes, etc.)  I'm too lazy to find and document it but I remember reading that pieces of the plane (an engine, other stuff) were found miles away which could not have happened if the plane simply crashed.

Check out the cell phone transcripts that supposedly came from Flight 93, which also yielded that famous "Let's roll!"  Sure does sound like some good propaganda to put out - good Americans fighting terror in the skies.  Also a better story than, "We had to kill our own people."

Just my .02

Yeah, I totally beleive that that plane could have been shot down.
But, that raises another question? If there was a goverment plot to blow all those buildings up, why stop this plane?

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: JacquesShelock August 24, 2007, 11:12:25 AM
The fourth plane wasn't needed as part of the plot.  They already had the 2 towers and the Pentagon, plus this one was way behind schedule as far as hitting something when compared to the other three.  Being that late there would have been questions as to why we didn't do something in time.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 24, 2007, 01:05:41 PM


That is the post icon for this thread.

The top flame represents the plane crash.

The bottom plane represents the controlled demolition charges that were secretly set in one of the most populated buildings in new york city without anyone noticing.

The red arrow represents everyone running from the building.

The little corner up top is the building starting fall.

This Is How You Do It Warn

Thursday, November 24, 2005
Interview with Scott Forbes
Scott Forbes, who worked in the South Tower of the world trade center, witnessed a power-down of the tower in the weekend before 9/11.

I spoke with Scott Forbes by telephone for around a half hour in late 2004. I also arranged a video interview. However, due to delays by a third person in releasing that video, Scott and I agreed to post a written interview now to fill in some of the details of Scott's experience.


GW: In 2001, you were working as an information technology specialist for Fiduciary Trust. Were you the main IT person for Fiduciary Trust, or were you an assistant IT person?

SF: I worked within an IT department of around 100 as a senior DBA [database administrator] and team leader.

GW: Fiduciary Trust had floors 90 and 94-97 of the South Tower at that time. Did you work on a specific floor, or did your duties normally keep you roaming on several floors?

SF: I and my technology colleagues worked on the 97th floor ... in the course of the day we would have meetings or give support on other floors but most our time would have been spent on the 97th floor.


GW: You've previously stated that on the weekend of September 8 and 9, 2001, there was a "power down" condition in world trade center Tower 2, the South Tower, and that this power down condition meant there was no electrical supply for approximately 36 hours from floor 50 up. Do you know what time the power-down started?

SF: All systems were shutdown on Saturday morning and the power down condition was in effect from approximately 12 noon on Saturday September 8, 2001.

GW: When did it end?

SF: Approximately 2PM on Sunday 9/9.

GW: How do you know that there was no electricity from floor 50 up, if Fiduciary Trust was on much higher floors -- starting at the 90th floor?

SF: I can't absolutely verify that there was no power on lower floors ... all I can validate is that we were informed of the power down condition, that we had to take down all systems and then the following day had to bring back up all systems ...

GW: You've previously stated that you were aware of the power down since you worked in the IT department and had to work with many others that weekend to ensure that all systems were cleanly shutdown beforehand ... and then brought back up afterwards. How many other Fiduciary Trust folks were you working with? Can any of them verify your story?

SF: Many, many people worked on the power down, both from the IT department and from the business, revalidating systems when they were available again. Other people can validate my information. Some people do not remember the circumstances, some people will not revisit that time ... but others acknowledge the power down freely and can validate my information.

GW: You said the reason given by the World Trade Center or Port Authority for the power down was that cabling in the tower was being upgraded. Do you know what parts of the building or how extensive the area would have been for upgrading cabling? In other words, would the area being worked on have been near the outer walls of the tower? Near the core? In the middle?

SF: I have no knowledge about this and can't comment ...

GW: You also stated that, without power, there were no security cameras. How do you know that? Could there have been backup generators which powered the security cameras?

SF: Within my company security cameras were monitored and videos retained for reference. They were powered from the usual power supplies so they would ave been out of action like all other electrical appliances.

GW: You also stated that, without power, there were security locks on doors. Are you just referring to outside doors, or also office doors? Were the locks electrical or key? If electrical, were they battery-operated?

SF: I was referring to the secure doors accessing my companies floors (and other companies). I do not believe there were any battery operated doors.

GW: You also stated there were many, many 'engineers' coming in and out of the tower. Did you see any of these folks yourself?

SF: Yes. By “engineers” I mean there were workmen on site, in overalls.

GW: Did these folks look "middle eastern"?

SF: No, not particularly, I mean I don't recall registering that the
guys were of one racial group or another.

GW: Did you recognize any of them from previous "work" in the tower?

SF: No.


GW: You were home on the shore of Jersey City on the morning of 9/11, and -- according to what you have said previously -- you were "convinced immediately that something was happening related to the weekend work". Why did you think that?

SF: When the South Tower collapsed, like a pillar of sand, it seemed unreal and inconceivable and I immediately thought something weird was going on. I became more suspicious several months later when the power down condition was never acknowledged and in some instances was denied by authorities.


GW: Finally, you've stated that you gave your information to the 9/11 Commission, but it took no interest. How did you get the info to the Commission (phone, email, letter?)

SF: I contacted the commission through their website and by mail. But I was never acknowledged nor contacted.

GW: Did the Commission ever follow up with you?

SF: No

GW: Anything else you wish to tell us?

SF: I have another piece of interesting information ... after 9/11 my company, along with others, was in disaster recovery mode at a location in New Jersey. At that site were literally hundreds and hundreds of eye witnesses to the events of 9/11. As a British National I was contacted by Scotland Yard in London to interview me on the events ... but I've often wondered why us authorities, like the New York police or FBI, did not interview all those witnesses available altogether in New Jersey. It seems like incompetence to me at best ... negligence at worst.

Postscript: Scott did not wish to speak with me concerning reports of explosions above the impact zone in the tower, perhaps because of privacy concerns for the family members of those who died in the tower. Scott told me that he was recently interviewed for a Dutch TV Documentary. So stay tuned: 2 videos of Scott should be coming out soon. .

another interview with him it starts 58 seconds in with pics of the dust
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy August 24, 2007, 01:38:02 PM
      I just have to say that, all this information about the power down, etc.. I just kid of wish some of these "theorists" would mention that perhaps it wasnt originally part of a plan to destroy the buildings intentionally with out a reason. MAYBE they could at least entertain the idea that the building was wired in case of such an attack, so they could bring the buildings straight down .. I think if they would entertain the idea that the building was wired for just such an emergency, and NOT as part of a plot to destroy the buildings, that they would get more people to start opening their minds ,and seeing the building was wired...
      When people hear that they wired the buildings to bring them down on Sept. 11 th, they just reject it out of denial .. if they would entertain the idea it was for noble purposes, then maybe people could come around to the reality that they WERE pulled, and THEN maybe they can start to un cover their own clouded reasoning and get to the truth ..
      My own feelings ,(that it goes deeper than our govt/NYC being "prepared" to pull the buildings and closer to "let the attack happen", then pulled them,  which is just removed from "Made it happen" by some plot ), shouldn't matter ..  so I am trying to see things the way others do (Unwilling to accept our govt. woulf be prt of such a thing..

just like some are willing to accept 93 was likely shot down .. That is the first step towards opening up their minds to the potential truth ..

Knowing the building was wired , but that it may have been done with the right intentions, may help others to open their minds as well .

that make any sense ?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 30, 2007, 02:50:22 AM
so i was on google video tonight when i ran into the doc about chem trails that shit they are spraying in the air i don't know much about it but you can clearly look outside and see something is being sprayed (
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare August 30, 2007, 12:05:19 PM
you have got to be kidding me.  is there any place left in the world where some folks won't try and look for the dark governmental bogeyman?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 30, 2007, 10:22:21 PM
not saying it's dark government hare just saying they are spraying something you can go outside and see this

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy August 31, 2007, 02:12:59 AM
gonna snap some pics at football tommorow for ya .. I just saw this post now, hadn't seen anything about this shit..

But just today I was looking at odd patterns in the clouds..


Crazy ..
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare August 31, 2007, 02:29:04 PM
nothing is getting sprayed.  it's pretty silly that people don't think that those are contrails just because it doesn't fit the paradigm of what they THINK a contrail should look like.  contrail = cloud, plain and simple, whether it's condensation formed around microscopic soot particles from jet fuel or as a result of wingtip cavitation.  as such, cloud behavior on micro levels like that is about as easy to predict as any form of particle dynamics.

the oddities these folks keep worrying about are easily explained by atmospheric phenomena like advection, convection, wind shear, dew pt, and such.  it also shouldn't be assumed that just because it's at "high altitude" that there will be high winds up there.  any day of the week i can pull the winds aloft data from NOAA in graphical format and show there are large areas of the country that are almost stagnant in the 15000-40000' range (i.e winds under 10kts).

the crisscross patterns offer a perfect illustration of the victor airways and high altitude jet routes as they converge on a VOR.  even the trails of planes on the same route at differing altitudes won't match up exactly (which is actually perfectly illustrated in some of the posted pics) because 1. wind shift 2. you have up to four miles of leeway on almost all routes on either side of the centerline 3. permissable VOR receiver error for IFR flight is up to +/- 2 degrees if checked using a ground VOT or airborne against a published VOR check point, and the error can go has high as 4 degrees difference if your using a dual VOR receiver to check one against the other (the least accurate way of the three methods to check your system i might add).  basically, it's next to impossible to get one track to go directly through another or stack upon another.

if people want to lose sleep over this crap they can go ahead, fine with me.  as a commercially licensed pilot i'm saying there's nothing abnormal about it.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 August 31, 2007, 02:41:27 PM
Aren't all commercial pilots controlled by Norad?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare August 31, 2007, 02:50:32 PM
lol, funny thing is...   it's possible for me to conduct certain operations and not even have to be associating with any form of ATC or even file a flight plan or have my transponder turned on under certain circumstances.

doesn't mean that it's a smart thing to do tho   :P
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy August 31, 2007, 03:44:36 PM
Thanks for the explanation hare, but are you going to tell me that that much more "cloud cover" especcially the kind containing "other" materials ie: Jet fuel , don't have an impact on the atmosphere/environment specifically climate ?

I don't have to think they are spraying something to know that they are certainly ugly, and more and more prevalent everywhere I go .

Oh and those "prisms" when the guy uses his fist, etc. have always existed that isn't any evidence.  I still wouldn't put it past the govt. to pull shit and honestly, what they talk about weapon wise sounds a lot like and "earthquake spell" from "populous the begning" . In any event, the ecological issues that are mentioned are certainly worth considering regardless of the "conspiracy " .

In fact , once again we lose view of important issues in the midst of extreme theoretical arguments ..

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare August 31, 2007, 04:32:03 PM
no doubt that the "fake" clouds are becomming more common.  mostly it stems from the fact that in many cases it's more economical to use smaller regional jets to meet transportation needs rather than larger long-haul aircraft.  i don't have any figures, but a large portion of the explosion in air traffic that has occurred in the last decade or so is due to the increasing number of regional jets flying our skys.  in turn, more contrails, exhaust, etc.

along with that do come the environmental concerns.  JET-A fuel is like any other hydrocarbon, it won't burn completely, but under the conditions you subject it to you actually do get a much cleaner burn than you do out of an automobile engine.  also when you look at pound for pound what you can move in a given time frame with a given amount of fuel, i think it's safe to say air travel is quite a bit cleaner than going by car, especially if we think about just how many millions of autos hit the roads every day v. a few thousand flights.

mind you i think commercial (turbine) power is great, but if you look at the general aviation side of things, it gets messy.  most cases the aircraft are small, piston powered, and gasoline burning (100 LL, avgas, etc.).  not only is the potential for some very dirty burns high with inexperienced pilots, but the EPA also allows a shit ton of oil to be burned/dumped through the engine compared to automobiles.  fortunately, GA aircraft again, are very few in number compared to automobiles.

as far as using the high altitude aircraft as a weapon, it doesn't make much sense.  1. at those altitudes, wind drift will make accurate placement near impossible to attain.  2.  releasing that high would cause extreme dilution of the sprayed material by the time it reaches population centers to the point where almost any agent would be in effective.  3. supposing it would even be possible to have something potent enough to withstand those conditions, the agent would be so wide spread that there really is no way to separate out the intended victims from the ones who pulled the strings to make it happen.  in all reality, about the only feasable way to apply chem/bio weapons by air is to do it at low altitudes with a crop dusting plane...  even that kinda sux compared to using artillery or rocket delivery systems or just dumping agent directly into a water supply.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: nadir August 31, 2007, 10:01:31 PM
Yeah.... Just getting mapping data from certain kind so of sensors at higher altitudes is a pain.  I am working on some data where the plane had to fly higher then normal and got pushed all over the place.  The = shitty data for me to work with.   

Contrails expand and hang like a mofo.  Add in a busy area that is on flight paths, you can see alot.  I would imagine in Nevada it must be pretty common with all the commercial and mil flights, not to mention if some one was flying mapping flights over an area like the Fed's or the state.  Very common and they do it on a 2 or 5 year basis. The will fly lines and have  cross lines to tie data in for data validation.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD September 01, 2007, 11:48:55 AM
the problem with the more jets theory is that those jets still fly along proscibed routes, they can't fly the shortest route between two points or just pick random fly paths so that is not the reason for the checkerboard paterns.

I don't understand why ppl doubt the govt would try upper atmosphere dispersal, they got caught doing the same kind of thing back in the 50's and 60's over san fransisco with different kinds of agents, why would they think any different now?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare September 03, 2007, 07:29:55 PM
the problem with the more jets theory is that those jets still fly along proscibed routes, they can't fly the shortest route between two points or just pick random fly paths so that is not the reason for the checkerboard paterns.

for the most part yeah, they're going to be on a victor airway or jet route, but for the folks lucky enough to have some sweet corporate class jet....   you get that thing above about FL 370 and ARTCC will clear you direct to wherever the hell you want to go.

the crisscross thing though, it's like what i said in one of the other posts, if you get a calm day...  like 10-15kts upper atmosphere winds...  that's what the sky starts looking like in the places where the airways cross or where you have a VOR sitting on the ground simply from slight wind drift and minor variances in instrument accuracy of the planes following those routes.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy September 03, 2007, 09:28:14 PM
the problem with the more jets theory is that those jets still fly along proscibed routes, they can't fly the shortest route between two points or just pick random fly paths so that is not the reason for the checkerboard paterns.

I don't understand why ppl doubt the govt would try upper atmosphere dispersal, they got caught doing the same kind of thing back in the 50's and 60's over san fransisco with different kinds of agents, why would they think any different now?

I think people doubt things like this, and other "Conspiracy theories" for the same reason people doubt their mate would ever cheat..

It is just too painfull for most people to think things like that can be happening, so despite any evidence they see they always find a reason to doubt it.   
However, when it is another person's mate, they can see right through it. Just like we see right through other countries lies, and mis-deeds, but not our own ..

Americans are for the most part secure so it is easier to hold onto that feeling of security, than to have it thrown completely off by accepting even one of these "conspiracy theories" ..

I hope this doesn't provoke MAD into another nuke the USA thread !
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx September 03, 2007, 11:31:01 PM
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx September 03, 2007, 11:31:33 PM
Congress must start impeachment inquiry: Ex-Reagan aide

 Monday Sept 3, 2007

A constitutional lawyer who served in Ronald Reagan's administration says President Bush's "apparently criminal" authorization of a warrantless wiretapping program is grounds for the House to begin an impeachment inquiry.

By not beginning such an investigation, impeachment will become a "virtual dead letter," Bruce Fein, former deputy attorney general under Regan, said in a essay published in Slate.

Fein has emerged as a fierce critic of Bush's administration and has previously called for the president and Vice President Dick Cheney to be impeached.

"The House does not require, nor should it await, proof beyond a reasonable doubt of misconduct," Fein wrote in the essay published Friday. "To wait for such proof subverts the whole purpose of an impeachment inquiry."

Ample grounds for an impeachment inquiry lie in the president's shady justifications for his "Terrorist Surveillance Program," which Fein says subverted the check's on law enforcement powers inherent in the Constitution and Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

"The president's apparently criminal spying continued until at least January 2007 -- or for more than five years [after 9/11] -- when Attorney General Alberto Gonzales declared that FISA warrants, whose nature remains classified, would replace the TSP," Fein writes. "(The attorney general maintained, however, that Bush continued to be crowned with Article II powers to ignore the warrant requirement and to do so secretly whenever he wished.)"

An impeachment inquiry should demand the president's legal justifications of the program, Fein writes, although he maintains that such an inquiry would not necessarily end with the president's ouster from office. He noted Abraham Lincoln's suspension of Habeas Corpus protections during the Civil War as an instance in which the national interest justified suspension of civil liberties.

Lincoln "rhetorically asked whether a republic must inescapably be too strong for the liberties of its people or too weak to maintain its existence," Fein writes. "The [House Judiciary] committee should similarly explore whether in the aftermath of 9/11, Bush was confronting such a dilemma."

Fein previously urged the Senate to censure Bush over the spy program.

In his latest essay, Fein says impeachment hearings are necessary for Congress to prevent its oversight muscles from atrophying:

"If what Bush has said and done falls short of warranting an impeachment inquiry, then impeachment of the president has become a virtual dead letter."

: NYPD first responder speaks out
: [Ht]LOx September 04, 2007, 12:40:22 AM
the video's are 10mins he talks of bombs and the molten steel and the whole cover up



: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy September 04, 2007, 01:43:56 AM
This is interesting..

and this
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx September 04, 2007, 02:24:48 AM
yeah thats from terror storm by alex jones check out masters of terror (

check out what the elite and ur government do for a week in north cali every summer (
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy September 04, 2007, 02:27:48 PM
the problem with the more jets theory is that those jets still fly along proscibed routes, they can't fly the shortest route between two points or just pick random fly paths so that is not the reason for the checkerboard paterns.

I don't understand why ppl doubt the govt would try upper atmosphere dispersal, they got caught doing the same kind of thing back in the 50's and 60's over san fransisco with different kinds of agents, why would they think any different now?

I think people doubt things like this, and other "Conspiracy theories" for the same reason people doubt their mate would ever cheat..

It is just too painfull for most people to think things like that can be happening, so despite any evidence they see they always find a reason to doubt it.   
However, when it is another person's mate, they can see right through it. Just like we see right through other countries lies, and mis-deeds, but not our own ..

Americans are for the most part secure so it is easier to hold onto that feeling of security, than to have it thrown completely off by accepting even one of these "conspiracy theories" ..

I hope this doesn't provoke MAD into another nuke the USA thread !

Sry for the spam, I wanted Sarge to see this reply .

Not sure about the Bohemian video involving our "ex-elite" or the worlds elite.. I had seen it a while back, and it wasn't about that, rather just about a cult ..  I am still with you on most of the stuff, not sure what to think of this one, it seems a bit staged ..
Keep it coming, it gives me something to do late nights !
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx September 04, 2007, 05:14:47 PM
well any time we have officials and the elite doing mock human sacrafice and occult shit there is a problem

Cremation of Care Bohemian Grove ritual part 1

Cremation of Care Bohemian Grove ritual part 2

when alex is talking it's not during the filming but during the editing
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy September 04, 2007, 10:51:25 PM
well any time we have officials and the elite doing mock human sacrafice and occult shit there is a problem

Cremation of Care Bohemian Grove ritual part 1

Cremation of Care Bohemian Grove ritual part 2

when alex is talking it's not during the filming but during the editing

      Nixon tape talking about faggots in San fran lol ..
He mentions Bohemian grove too ...

oK Here this says more to me about who is thre and who isn't lol

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy September 04, 2007, 11:22:35 PM
well any time we have officials and the elite doing mock human sacrafice and occult shit there is a problem

Cremation of Care Bohemian Grove ritual part 1

Cremation of Care Bohemian Grove ritual part 2

when alex is talking it's not during the filming but during the editing

This nexr one made me dizzy, I gotta go to work now ...

As people who are into games/movies/fantasy.... It is certainly easy to understand why thinking of these things becomes fascinating. I make no claim to my "end game" decision on what is real or possible and what isn't ..

I have my own doubts about my own catholic up bringing, and often say Religion is a tool of man. I also buy into science, and often that makes me think "God" is conceptual . Not to start a religious conversation here.
If I was going to accept any of these things, I would have to accept things that go way past my current level of "faith". I am just trying to keep up and feed my family, have some fun on the way down hill.. 

Still, it is pretty wild to think that those types of spiritual power may exist.

However, it does nothing for the reality of those conspiracies in present day, and honestly makes it easier to doubt them ..

Pretty confusing, something feels funny .. .

is that my mind trying to open again .. Damnit  i thought I locked it up good this time.....

      Nixon tape talking about faggots in San fran lol ..
He mentions Bohemian grove too ...

oK Here this says more to me about who is thre and who isn't lol

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx September 05, 2007, 12:49:25 AM
you gotta check this shit out boxy and others im gonna do alot of research on what he's saying
it's from the 70's they framed this guy and put him away

pt1 - John Todd a former Illuminati: (Explaining The Illuminati)

pt2 - John Todd a former Illuminati: (Explaining The Illuminati) PT2

Found A Page All About This Guy (

Still Researching This..........
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx September 05, 2007, 04:53:29 AM
Top Cheney Aide: "We're One Bomb Away From Getting Rid" Of Wiretapping Court

New York Times
Tuesday September 4, 2007

Goldsmith emphasizes that he was not opposed to investigating the leak, which he agreed with President Bush did "great harm to the nation." In addition, he shared the White House's concern that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act might prevent wiretaps on international calls involving terrorists. But Goldsmith deplored the way the White House tried to fix the problem, which was highly contemptuous of Congress and the courts. "We're one bomb away from getting rid of that obnoxious [FISA] court," Goldsmith recalls Addington telling him in February 2004.

In his book, Goldsmith claims that Addington and other top officials treated the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act the same way they handled other laws they objected to: "They blew through them in secret based on flimsy legal opinions that they guarded closely so no one could question the legal basis for the operations," he writes. Goldsmith's first experienced this extraordinary concealment, or "strict compartmentalization," in late 2003 when, he recalls, Addington angrily denied a request by the N.S.A.'s inspector general to see a copy of the Office of Legal Counsel's legal analysis supporting the secret surveillance program. "Before I arrived in O.L.C., not even N.S.A. lawyers were allowed to see the Justice Department's legal analysis of what N.S.A. was doing," Goldsmith writes.

Read the entire article. (

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx September 05, 2007, 05:00:43 AM
Cheney Orders Media To Sell Attack On Iran
Fox News, Wall Street Journal instructed to launch PR blitz for upcoming military strike

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Tuesday, September 4, 2007

Dick Cheney has ordered top Neo-Con media outlets, including Fox News and the Wall Street Journal, to unleash a PR blitz to sell a war with Iran from today, according to Barnett Rubin, the highly respected Afghanistan expert at New York University.

The New Yorker magazine reports that Rubin had a conversation with a member of a top neoconservative institution in Washington, who told him that "instructions" had been passed on from the Office of the Vice-President to roll out a campaign for war with Iran in the week after Labor Day.

    "It will be coordinated with the American Enterprise Institute, the Wall Street Journal, the Weekly Standard, Commentary, Fox, and the usual suspects, writes Rubin, "It will be heavy sustained assault on the airwaves, designed to knock public sentiment into a position from which a war can be maintained. Evidently they don’t think they’ll ever get majority support for this—they want something like 35-40 percent support, which in their book is “plenty.”

Rubin subsequently confirmed with a second source that the propaganda coup had been launched and the individual, another top Neo-Con at a major think tank, had this to say about it: “I am a Republican. I am a conservative. But I’m not a raging lunatic. This is lunatic.”

An organized mass media campaign to propagandize for a military strike on Iran mirrors exactly what happened in late 2002 in preparation for the invasion of Iraq and would be seen as par for the course in anticipation of an attack that presidential candidate Ron Paul amongst other expert observers fear will take place within 12 months.

President Bush met directly with talk radio idealogues at the White House last year to push the Neo-Con agenda. Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Neal Boortz and Michael Medved (pictured below) amongst others all attended and received their talking points straight from the President's mouth.


Considering the history of the sordid "fake news" scandal, where millions of dollars were used to create pre-packaged government press releases disguised as news, along with the Armstrong Williams farce, it should surprise no one that such "instructions" are now being handed out to prepare the public for another military invasion.

The issuance of orders for Neo-Con mass media arms to push for an assault on Iran also puts the U.S. on red alert for a terror attack, whether real or manufactured, which Dick Cheney has already promised will immediately be blamed on Iran no matter who the real culprits are.

On August 1st, 2005 the American Conservative reported that Cheney had tasked the United States Strategic Command (STRATCOM) with drawing up a contingency plan to be employed in response to another 9/11-type terrorist attack on the United States. The plan involved a massive air strike on Iran which included the use of nuclear weapons.

The publication reported that, "The response is not conditional on Iran actually being involved in the act of terrorism directed against the United States," meaning that any such attack will immediately be blamed on Iran and any evidence to the contrary will be buried.

The London Times reported on Sunday that the Pentagon had finalized plans for a 3 day blitz designed to annihilate 1,200 targets in Iran and destroy the country's military capability.

    Alexis Debat, director of terrorism and national security at the Nixon Center, said last week that US military planners were not preparing for “pinprick strikes” against Iran’s nuclear facilities. “They’re about taking out the entire Iranian military,” he said.

    Debat was speaking at a meeting organised by The National Interest, a conservative foreign policy journal. He told The Sunday Times that the US military had concluded: “Whether you go for pinprick strikes or all-out military action, the reaction from the Iranians will be the same.” It was, he added, a “very legitimate strategic calculus”.

Rhetoric regarding a potential military attack on Iran has heated again over the past week, with President Bush having warned of the risk of a "nuclear holocaust" if the country was allowed to acquire nuclear capability.

In a speech last Monday, French President Nicolas Sarkozy said that a diplomatic push by the world's powers to rein in Tehran's nuclear program was the only alternative to "an Iranian bomb or the bombing of Iran."

ranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad subsequently stated that a U.S. attack on Iran was "impossible" due to U.S. troops being tied down in Afghanistan and Iraq. Yesterday, he claimed to have proof that the U.S. were not planning to attack, bizarrely citing his mathematical skills as an engineer and faith in God.

A January poll by Ipsos found that 40% of Americans thought it likely that Iran would be attacked by the end of the year. The U.S. has stationed three aircraft carriers in the Persian Gulf, the Nimitz, a nuclear-powered carrier, John C. Stennis Strike Group, and Dwight D. Eisenhower, a relief carrier.

The U.S. government is openly funding and supporting the activities of Jundullah, a Sunni Al-Qaeda terrorist group formerly headed by the alleged mastermind of 9/11, to carry out bombings in Iran and destabilize Ahmadinejad's power base.

The Iranian Revolutionary Guard military was recently declared to be a terrorist organization by the White House, another ominous sign that an attack is being readied.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD September 07, 2007, 12:01:15 PM
Dick cheney is insane, his office is telling the national archive that they don't have to supply legal documents mandated by a Executive order because the Vice Presidents office isn't part of the executive branch of the govt.

the guy is a fucking menace to all of us, can you imagine this nut job with his finger on the nuke trigger, god help us all if bush dies in office.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy September 07, 2007, 04:13:02 PM
Dick cheney is insane, his office is telling the national archive that they don't have to supply legal documents mandated by a Executive order because the Vice Presidents office isn't part of the executive branch of the govt.

the guy is a fucking menace to all of us, can you imagine this nut job with his finger on the nuke trigger, god help us all if bush dies in office.

What ever became of the guy he shot in the face ?

I am sure that dude had to have disagreed with Cheney at some point, and that shot was no accident..
: William Rodriguez on C-Span
: [Ht]LOx September 10, 2007, 02:14:30 AM
American Perspectives: Discussions on 9/11 and Oklahoma City Terrorist Attacks (09/08/2007)  click that one (

he starts speaking at about 20 mins into it and gets into 9/11 around a hour and 9 mins in

: America's Number One Collapse Expert Thought WTC Bombed
: [Ht]LOx September 11, 2007, 03:40:49 AM
FDNY commander said south tower implosion "too even" to be caused by jet fuel

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Monday, September 10, 2007

A man described as "the premiere collapse expert in the country" thought the collapse of the south tower of the WTC was caused by explosives and not jet fuel, before the implosion of the north tower killed him on 9/11.

Deputy Chief Ray Downey, the head of the FDNY's Special Operations Command, was also described by colleagues as "the most knowledgeable person on building collapses there was," and 9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer referred to Downey as a "very, very respected expert on building collapse."

According to a World Trade Center Task Force interview with FDNY' Chaplain Father John Delendick, immediately after the collapse of the south tower at 9:59am, Delendick met with Downey below the nearby World Financial Center and asked him if jet fuel had brought about the bizarre and sudden implosion of the building. According to Delendick, Downey "said at that point he thought there were bombs up there because it was too even."

Downey was a highly respected figure, having commanded rescue operations at both the 1993 WTC bombing and the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995. His colleagues simply referred to him as "God" or "The Master of Disaster".

Downey was a 39-year FDNY veteran and the most highly decorated firefighter in its history.

Deputy Chief Raymond M. Downey, Commanding Officer of the Special Operations Command (SOC), died in the line of duty, while helping others escape from the fire and collapse scene of the twin towers at the World Trade Center on Tuesday, September 11, 2001.

Fire Chief Mike Antonucci, Downey's best friend, said that Downey's hobby was "To study building collapses, what affected the engineering of buildings, how they [would] weaken and how he could respond and stay safe."

The weight of Downey's eyewitness testimony and his conclusion that bombs brought down the south tower is of massive significance as we approach the anniversary of 9/11, a date of mourning for Downey's family due to the fact that he was tragically killed later that day following the collapse of the north tower as he tried to help others escape.

Downey's testimony is added to the assertions of hundreds of leading academics, scientists, former government and military officials and researchers, who have all questioned the impossible collapse of both the twin towers and WTC 7, and singled out incendiary or explosive devices as the only means by which the structures could have fell in the manner they did.

: [Ht]LOx September 12, 2007, 07:22:59 PM

It was already planned BOMBSHELL EVIDENCE if i say so myself
: CNN: New details on 9/11 mystery plane over D.C.
: [Ht]LOx September 14, 2007, 02:09:55 PM
: Pilot who flew 2 planes used on 9/11 doesn't believe official story
: [Ht]LOx September 17, 2007, 02:39:31 AM
: Bush setting America up for war with Iran
: [Ht]LOx September 17, 2007, 05:03:57 AM
 Philip Sherwell and Tim Shipman
London Telegraph
Sunday September 16, 2007

Senior American intelligence and defence officials believe that President George W Bush and his inner circle are taking steps to place America on the path to war with Iran, The Sunday Telegraph has learnt.

Pentagon planners have developed a list of up to 2,000 bombing targets in Iran, amid growing fears among serving officers that diplomatic efforts to slow Iran's nuclear weapons programme are doomed to fail.

Pentagon and CIA officers say they believe that the White House has begun a carefully calibrated programme of escalation that could lead to a military showdown with Iran.

Now it has emerged that Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state, who has been pushing for a diplomatic solution, is prepared to settle her differences with Vice-President Dick Cheney and sanction military action.

In a chilling scenario of how war might come, a senior intelligence officer warned that public denunciation of Iranian meddling in Iraq - arming and training militants - would lead to cross border raids on Iranian training camps and bomb factories.

A prime target would be the Fajr base run by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Quds Force in southern Iran, where Western intelligence agencies say armour-piercing projectiles used against British and US troops are manufactured.

Under the theory - which is gaining credence in Washington security circles - US action would provoke a major Iranian response, perhaps in the form of moves to cut off Gulf oil supplies, providing a trigger for air strikes against Iran's nuclear facilities and even its armed forces.

Senior officials believe Mr Bush's inner circle has decided he does not want to leave office without first ensuring that Iran is not capable of developing a nuclear weapon.

The intelligence source said: "No one outside that tight circle knows what is going to happen." But he said that within the CIA "many if not most officials believe that diplomacy is failing" and that "top Pentagon brass believes the same".

He said: "A strike will probably follow a gradual escalation. Over the next few weeks and months the US will build tensions and evidence around Iranian activities in Iraq."

Previously, accusations that Mr Bush was set on war with Iran have come almost entirely from his critics.

Many senior operatives within the CIA are highly critical of Mr Bush's handling of the Iraq war, though they themselves are considered ineffective and unreliable by hardliners close to Mr Cheney.

The vice president is said to advocate the use of bunker-busting tactical nuclear weapons against Iran's nuclear sites. His allies dispute this, but Mr Cheney is understood to be lobbying for air strikes if sites can be identified where Revolutionary Guard units are training Shia militias.

Recent developments over Iraq appear to fit with the pattern of escalation predicted by Pentagon officials.

Gen David Petraeus, Mr Bush's senior Iraq commander, denounced the Iranian "proxy war" in Iraq last week as he built support in Washington for the US military surge in Baghdad.

The US also announced the creation of a new base near the Iraqi border town of Badra, the first of what could be several locations to tackle the smuggling of weapons from Iran.

A State Department source familiar with White House discussions said that Miss Rice, under pressure from senior counter-proliferation officials to acknowledge that military action may be necessary, is now working with Mr Cheney to find a way to reconcile their positions and present a united front to the President.

The source said: "When you go down there and see the body language, you can see that Cheney is still The Man. Condi pushed for diplomacy but she is no dove. If it becomes necessary she will be on board.

"Both of them are very close to the president, and where they differ they are working together to find a way to present a position they can both live with."

The official contrasted the efforts of the secretary of state to work with the vice-president with the "open warfare between Colin Powell and Donald Rumsfeld before the Iraq war".

Miss Rice's bottom line is that if the administration is to go to war again it must build the case over a period of months and win sufficient support on Capitol Hill.

The Sunday Telegraph has been told that Mr Bush has privately promised her that he would consult "meaningfully" with Congressional leaders of both parties before any military action against Iran on the understanding that Miss Rice would resign if this did not happen.

The intelligence officer said that the US military has "two major contingency plans" for air strikes on Iran.

"One is to bomb only the nuclear facilities. The second option is for a much bigger strike that would - over two or three days - hit all of the significant military sites as well. This plan involves more than 2,000 targets.";jsessionid=U3ZYA1OQ114ZNQFIQMFSFGGAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/news/2007/09/16/wiran116.xm

: 9/11 First Responder Heard WTC 7 Demolition Countdown
: [Ht]LOx September 17, 2007, 05:24:18 AM

: Alan Greenspan claims Iraq war was really for oil
: [Ht]LOx September 17, 2007, 06:28:22 AM

Alan Greenspan claims Iraq war was really for oil
London Times | September 16, 2007
Graham Paterson

AMERICA’s elder statesman of finance, Alan Greenspan, has shaken the White House by declaring that the prime motive for the war in Iraq was oil.

In his long-awaited memoir, to be published tomorrow, Greenspan, a Republican whose 18-year tenure as head of the US Federal Reserve was widely admired, will also deliver a stinging critique of President George W Bush’s economic policies.

However, it is his view on the motive for the 2003 Iraq invasion that is likely to provoke the most controversy. “I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil,” he says.

Greenspan, 81, is understood to believe that Saddam Hussein posed a threat to the security of oil supplies in the Middle East.

Britain and America have always insisted the war had nothing to do with oil. Bush said the aim was to disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction and end Saddam’s support for terrorism.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy September 17, 2007, 08:47:30 AM
When is all this evidence going to tip the scale, and cause the lemmings to see the forest through the trees ?

It saddens me , but doesn't suprise me that people are so naive..

: Shit They Do
: [Ht]LOx September 17, 2007, 06:05:15 PM
yeah it's crazy you have to watch these mother fuckers when they pull these drills

9/11 drills

7/7 London bombings drills

Oooops! What a coincidence

: Greenspan Working To Destroy US Economy
: [Ht]LOx September 19, 2007, 03:05:15 AM
Puppets of the elite posing as saviors once again

2 much shit to post READ MORE HERE (


You Can Listen To Alex Jones Every Day Live @ 11am to 2pm. It RePlays 24 Hours After That. (

Hit Up PrisonPlanet Everyday (

: It Is Starting
: [Ht]LOx September 20, 2007, 12:05:09 PM
Fears of dollar collapse as Saudis take fright

London Telegraph | September 20, 2007
Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

Saudi Arabia has refused to cut interest rates in lockstep with the US Federal Reserve for the first time, signalling that the oil-rich Gulf kingdom is preparing to break the dollar currency peg in a move that risks setting off a stampede out of the dollar across the Middle East.

"This is a very dangerous situation for the dollar," said Hans Redeker, currency chief at BNP Paribas.

"Saudi Arabia has $800bn (£400bn) in their future generation fund, and the entire region has $3,500bn under management. They face an inflationary threat and do not want to import an interest rate policy set for the recessionary conditions in the United States," he said.

The Saudi central bank said today that it would take "appropriate measures" to halt huge capital inflows into the country, but analysts say this policy is unsustainable and will inevitably lead to the collapse of the dollar peg.

As a close ally of the US, Riyadh has so far tried to stick to the peg, but the link is now destabilising its own economy.

The Fed's dramatic half point cut to 4.75pc yesterday has already caused a plunge in the world dollar index to a fifteen year low, touching with weakest level ever against the mighty euro at just under $1.40.

There is now a growing danger that global investors will start to shun the US bond markets. The latest US government data on foreign holdings released this week show a collapse in purchases of US bonds from $97bn to just $19bn in July, with outright net sales of US Treasuries.

The danger is that this could now accelerate as the yield gap between the United States and the rest of the world narrows rapidly, leaving America starved of foreign capital flows needed to cover its current account deficit - expected to reach $850bn this year, or 6.5pc of GDP.

Mr Redeker said foreign investors have been gradually pulling out of the long-term US debt markets, leaving the dollar dependent on short-term funding. Foreigners have funded 25pc to 30pc of America's credit and short-term paper markets over the last two years.

"They were willing to provide the money when rates were paying nicely, but why bear the risk in these dramatically changed circumstances? We think that a fall in dollar to $1.50 against the euro is not out of the question at all by the first quarter of 2008," he said.

"This is nothing like the situation in 1998 when the crisis was in Asia, but the US was booming. This time the US itself is the problem," he said.

Mr Redeker said the biggest danger for the dollar is that falling US rates will at some point trigger a reversal yen "carry trade", causing massive flows from the US back to Japan.

Jim Rogers, the commodity king and former partner of George Soros, said the Federal Reserve was playing with fire by cutting rates so aggressively at a time when the dollar was already under pressure.

The risk is that flight from US bonds could push up the long-term yields that form the base price of credit for most mortgages, the driving the property market into even deeper crisis.

"If Ben Bernanke starts running those printing presses even faster than he's already doing, we are going to have a serious recession. The dollar's going to collapse, the bond market's going to collapse. There's going to be a lot of problems," he said.

The Federal Reserve, however, clearly calculates the risk of a sudden downturn is now so great that the it outweighs dangers of a dollar slide.

Former Fed chief Alan Greenspan said this week that house prices may fall by "double digits" as the subprime crisis bites harder, prompting households to cut back sharply on spending.

For Saudi Arabia, the dollar peg has clearly become a liability. Inflation has risen to 4pc and the M3 broad money supply is surging at 22pc.

The pressures are even worse in other parts of the Gulf. The United Arab Emirates now faces inflation of 9.3pc, a 20-year high. In Qatar it has reached 13pc.

Kuwait became the first of the oil sheikhdoms to break its dollar peg in May, a move that has begun to rein in rampant money supply growth.
: Pure Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx September 20, 2007, 02:11:01 PM
Bush tries to grant himself and entire administration immunity for war crimes dating back to 9/11/01
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy September 20, 2007, 03:16:19 PM
the collapse of the dollar has been planned for a decade or more. Despite what then Pres. Clinton tired to do and despite that administrations reducing/eliminating the deficit completely at that time, the plan is working perfectly ...

If you research back to when the euro was the topic of hot debate, there were people waring back then about the worrisome condition of the dollar globally . My father's generation thinks the world needs us to be the consumers we are, and will therefore bail us out over and over, but it just isn't the case anymore..

I fear for the security of the future of our children .

Too bad I am so busy just making ends meat, and being part of my kids life to do anything about it..

Like I said, right according to plan ..
: Ron Paul Slams Bernanke For Dollar Meltdown
: [Ht]LOx September 20, 2007, 06:46:05 PM
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Thursday, September 20, 2007

Ron Paul has slammed Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke for deliberately depreciating the value of the dollar to artificially bail out Wall Street while poor and middle class people lose their homes and have their living standards lowered.

During a Banking Committee hearing on Capitol Hill today, the Texas Congressman confronted Bernanke and accused the Fed of trying to solve the problem of inflation with more inflation by creating artificially low interest rates that have no effect because of the dollar's weakness.

Watch the video.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: JacquesShelock September 20, 2007, 08:49:50 PM
I almost shit today when I saw the Canuck dollar was equal to the US dollar.  No Xmas skiing at Whistler for me this year  :-\
: House prices to drop much lower: Greenspan
: [Ht]LOx September 21, 2007, 09:48:46 AM
Friday September 21, 2007

A big overhang of property will bring U.S. house prices down further, but it is too early to say if the economy will plunge into recession, former Federal Reserve chief Alan Greenspan was quoted as saying on Friday.

Greenspan said in an interview with Austrian magazine Format that low interest rates in the past 15 years were to blame for the house price bubble, but that central banks were powerless when they tried to bring it under control.

"It's a difficult situation, there is an enormous overhang on the real estate market," Greenspan was quoted as saying. "Many buildings which just have been finished can't be sold ..."


"So far, prices have dropped only slightly. But it was enough to cause alarm around the world," he said. "Prices are going to fall much lower yet."

"However, it is too early to answer the question about a recession. We simply don't know yet. It depends on how flexibly the economy can react," he said.

Greenspan said deregulation and the introduction of market economies in the former Communist bloc after the Berlin Wall fell in 1989 had caused a global boom and a worldwide reduction of interest rates, which both helped fuel the property bubble.

"There is no doubt about the fact that low interest rates for long-term government bonds have caused the real estate bubble in the United States," he said.

"The Federal Reserve began a series of interest rate increases in 2004. We were hoping to bring the speculative excesses in the real estate sector under control. We failed. We tried it again in 2005. Failure," he said.

"Nobody could do anything about it, neither us nor the European Central Bank. We were powerless," he said.
: Greenspan Admits Fed Is Not Beholden To Any Government Agency
: [Ht]LOx September 21, 2007, 09:50:41 AM
 Abe Day
Friday September 21, 2007

This week, former chairman of the Fed Reserve Alan Greenspan in an interview aired on PBS’ News Hour was asked by Jim Lehrer what should be the proper relationship between a chairman of the Fed and The President of the United States. In a shockingly honest tone Greenspan replies,

"Well, first of all, the Federal Reserve is an independent agency, and that means, basically, that there is no other agency of government which can overrule actions that we take. So long as that is in place and there is no evidence that the administration or the Congress or anybody else is requesting that we do things other than what we think is the appropriate thing, then what the relationships are don't, frankly, matter.”

This issue with the Fed being above government is one of the key things We The People need to understand in order to wake up to the awful situation that we have found ourselves in. Our wealth, our labor, and anything we gain buy being productive has been stolen from us since the Federal Reserve took over our money system in the 1913.

Most people believe the Fed to be a government agency overlook by the President of the United States. Others fully believe the statements of Mr. Greenspan but don’t really understand what it means to have an “independent agency” (i.e. private banks) be above The Presidency, The Congress and Senate, and the Supreme court of the United States. This power to create money has been given over to a group of businessmen not beholden to our U.S Constitution; a document to protect our God given freedoms from tyranny. Hopefully enough of our rising generation can learn this sad truth and vote to return the power to regulate money back into the hands of those to whom it belongs…We The People.
: Greenspan Publicly Shamed for Intentionally Destroying Dollar
: [Ht]LOx September 22, 2007, 02:39:30 PM

WeAreChange Activists Unmask Former Federal Reserve Chair's Role in Globalist Takeover and Currency Assassination

Activists angry at Alan Greenspan's recent deliberate attack on the U.S. dollar-- which has already resulted in further devaluation and asset seizure by foreign entities-- gathered at an event in New York to confront the former Federal Reserve Chairman on his shameful actions in signaling dollar collapse.

Members of were grabbed by police and forced out of the building after criticizing Greenspan for "destroying the country." Individuals who waited in line to ask Greenspan a question were told that there were "no interviews" by event handlers, who then signaled for police to take over.


Nate Evans was grabbed by more than four officers after criticizing the "Federal" private bank Greenspan previously headed. Other activists confronted Alan Greenspan as he left the event, giving him a public shaming for acting on behalf of his globalist masters.

While the globalist-controlled mainstream media rewards economic sabotage by portraying Greenspan and other financiers as economic 'saviors,' it is refreshing to know that many others are standing up in defiance of deliberate devaluation.
: Kissinger Admits Iran Attack Is About Oil
: [Ht]LOx September 24, 2007, 09:50:36 AM

"So what?, we need the oil," sneer deluded Neo-Cons as oil prices explode due to orchestrated artificial scarcity

Paul Joseph Watson / Prison Planet | September 21, 2007

In a new op-ed, Bilderberg luminary Henry Kissinger admits that U.S. hostility against Iran is not about the threat of nuclear proliferation, but as part of a larger agenda to seize Iranian oil supplies. But the true meaning behind this is lost on Neo-Cons, who are still deluded into thinking that Americans benefit from the imperial looting of natural resources in the middle east.

In a Washington Post op-ed, Former US Secretary of State Kissinger comes clean on the true motives behind the planned military assault on Iran.

"An Iran that practices subversion and seeks regional hegemony - which appears to be the current trend - must be faced with lines it will not be permitted to cross. The industrial nations cannot accept radical forces dominating a region on which their economies depend," writes Kissinger.

As blogger Robert Weissman points out, the "legitimate aspirations" that Kissinger affords Iran later in the piece "do not include control over the oil that the United States and other industrial countries need."

According to the CIA's world factbook, Iran has the world's second largest reserves of conventional crude oil at 133 gigabarrels. Adding non-conventional oil, Iran holds 10% of the global oil supply.

Kissinger's admission that U.S. control of Iranian oil supplies is the real agenda behind hostility towards Iran would raise eyebrows and bring condemnation from many, but there are a hard core of Neo-Con cheerleaders who would support such an agenda even if it is openly accepted that nuclear proliferation is just a smokescreen for looting more middle east oil.

That is because they are still deluded into thinking that foreign wars of aggression to monopolize natural resources make America, and as a consequence make them, richer and more prosperous - when nothing could be further from the truth.

The fact that the Iraq invasion was about oil is a familiar cliche that was even acknowledged by Alan Greenspan last week.

"So what? We need that oil," the Neo-Cons sneer

Americans don't benefit from the Globalists' control of Iraqi oil because the agenda is to artificially restrict global oil supplies in order to jack up prices and reduce the living standards of industrial countries.

The oil flowing out of Iraq has never recovered to pre-invasion levels and still stands at a measly 0.5 gigabarrels a year, a huge chunk of which is piped directly to Israel.

This artificial scarcity is the stated goal of Bilderberg luminaries like Kissinger and José Manuel Barroso, who have sworn to inflate prices up to $200 dollars a barrel and spark the onset of a "post-industrial revolution", which translates as another economic depression and a wholesale "correction" of living standards that will all but obliterate the middle class.

Neo-Cons who trumpet the ethnic cleansing of the middle east using the twisted logic that it benefits Americans as their dollar sinks to peso level and gas prices explode while the cost of living becomes unaffordable are living in a complete fantasy world, but when the wake up call arrives the consequences of their ignorance are going to reap a hellish revenge.

Links To All The News
: Examiner Exclusive: Bush quietly advising Hillary Clinton, top Democrats
: [Ht]LOx September 25, 2007, 12:25:48 PM

Bill Sammon
The Examiner
Tuesday September 25, 2007

President Bush is quietly providing back-channel advice to Hillary Rodham Clinton, urging her to modulate her rhetoric so she can effectively prosecute the war in Iraq if elected president.

In an interview for the new book “The Evangelical President,” White House Chief of Staff Josh Bolten said Bush has “been urging candidates: ‘Don’t get yourself too locked in where you stand right now. If you end up sitting where I sit, things could change dramatically.’ ”

Bolten said Bush wants enough continuity in his Iraq policy that “even a Democratic president would be in a position to sustain a legitimate presence there.”

“Especially if it’s a Democrat,” the chief of staff told The Examiner in his West Wing office. “He wants to create the conditions where a Democrat not only will have the leeway, but the obligation to see it out.”

o that end, the president has been sending advice, mostly through aides, aimed at preventing an abrupt withdrawal from Iraq in the event of a Democratic victory in November 2008.

“It’s different being a candidate and being the president,” Bush said in an Oval Office interview. “No matter who the president is, no matter what party, when they sit here in the Oval Office and seriously consider the effect of a vacuum being created in the Middle East, particularly one trying to be created by al Qaeda, they will then begin to understand the need to continue to support the young democracy.”

To that end, Bush is institutionalizing controversial anti-terror programs so they can be used by the next president.

“Look, I’d like to make as many hard decisions as I can make, and do a lot of the heavy lifting prior to whoever my successor is,” Bush said. “And then that person is going to have to come and look at the same data I’ve been looking at, and come to their own conclusion.”

As an example, Bush cited his detainee program, which allows him to keep enemy combatants imprisoned at Guantanamo Bay while they await adjudication. Bush is unmoved by endless criticism of the program because he says his successor will need it.

“I specifically talked about it so that a candidate and/or president wouldn’t have to deal with the issue,” he said. “The next person has got the opportunity to analyze the utility of the program and make his or her decision about whether or not it is necessary to protect the homeland. I suspect they’ll find that it is necessary. But my only point to you is that it was important for me to lay it out there, so that the politics wouldn’t enter into whether or not the program ought to survive beyond my period.”

The Examiner asked Bush why Democratic candidates such as Clinton and Barack Obama, who routinely lambaste his handling of Iraq, should take his advice.

“First of all, I expect them to criticize me. That’s one way you get elected in the Democratic primary, is to criticize the president,” Bush replied. “I don’t expect them to necessarily take advice from me. I would expect their insiders to at least get a perspective about how we see things.”

He added: “We have an obligation to make sure that whoever is interested, they get our point of view, because you want somebody running for president to at least understand all perspectives, apart from the politics.”

Besides, Bush suggested that Clinton and Obama just might benefit from his advice.

“If I were a candidate running for president in a complex world that we’re in, I would be asking my national security team to touch base with the White House just to at least listen about plans, thoughts,” he said.

So far, Bush has been encouraged by the fact that Democratic candidates are preserving enough wiggle room in their anti-war rhetoric to enable them to keep at least some troops in Iraq.

“If you listen carefully, there are Democrats that say, ‘Well, there needs to be some kind of presence,’” Bush said.

A senior White House official said the administration did not put much stock in pledges by Democratic presidential candidates to swiftly end the Iraq war if elected.

“Well, first of all, if you’re a presidential candidate,” the official said, “you’re able to [finesse] the public posturing that you may be required to do, or that you fall into doing.

“The other thing is, they are being advised by smart people,” the official said. “We’ve got colleagues here on the staff who have good communications with some of the thinkers on that side.

“And there is a recognition by most of them that there has to be a long-term presence by the United States if we hope to avoid America being brought back into the region in a very precarious way, at a point where all-out resources are required.”

One topic discussed by the White House and Democratic presidential campaigns is whether such a long-term presence should be inside Iraq, as Clinton prefers, or just outside, as Democratic candidate John Edwards has suggested.

Asked by The Examiner whether the Democrats were reluctant to have private contacts with the administration, the White House official replied: “No, I think they sort of welcome conversation.”

Besides, he said, Democrats understand the negative consequences of moving too quickly to reverse Bush’s Iraq policy. The official noted that in the wake of Vietnam, anti-war Democrats “suffered for 20-some-odd years because they were identified as the party, when it came to national security, of being weak.”

“If I were a Democrat, I would not want to be in a place where I was forcing us to withdraw in ’08,” he said. “It’s an election year and any bad consequences would immediately be on their head.

“One of two things will happen if a Democrat gets elected president,” he said. “They will either have to withdraw U.S. troops in order to remain true to the rhetoric — in which case, any consequences in the aftermath fall on their heads. Or they have to break their word, in which case they encourage fratricide on the left of their party. Now that’s a thorny issue to work through.”

Vice President Dick Cheney was philosophical about the possibility of a Democratic president fundamentally reversing the policies that he and Bush have worked so hard to implement in Iraq.

“It’s the nature of the business, in a sense,” he shrugged during an interview in his West Wing office. “I mean, you get two terms. We were fortunate to get two terms. And I think we’ll increasingly see a lot of emphasis on deciding who the next occupant of the Oval Office is going to be.”


: Disillusioned Public Frighteningly Ignorant of Basic Public Issues
: [Ht]LOx September 25, 2007, 01:36:12 PM
LUCUS takes the camera to the streets of Austin, TX and asks the public some very easy questions about society in America. You may be shocked at what you find out, then again you may not be shocked. SCARED YET?

When the 9/11 truth about the conspiracy comes to light, people like Paul Wolfowitz and Donald Rumsfeld may see the same fate as Saddam Hussein. Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda are CIA assets.

The network they operate is funded through the ISI by the central intelligence agency. When you have building 7, freefall speed, Silverstein saying "Pull it" and all the vast evidence about September 11th, you come to understand the detail.

There were bombs in the WTC, or World Trade Center, and the Pentagon was hit by a missile. Flight 93 was shot down over Pennsylvania. The 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia which has direct ties right to George Herbert Walker Bush, Bush SR. Prescott Bush funded Hitler and the nazi party. If we don't stop this it will lead to World war 3, or WW3.

You will not find any Britney Spears or Anna Smith videos on my channel. Please subscribe to my channel at to get REAL news that you may have missed on FOX, NBC, CBS, and CNN.


Olbermann, Lou Dobbs, Bill Oreilly, or Sean Hannity will not cover this topic. The Iraq war, Afghanistand, and coming Iran war are all based on the pretext of 9/11, which was a total lie. We are sending our soldiers off to war based on a lie. All this torture and death for a lie. This has to stop.


What a fucking shame thats why they fucking do what they do
: Olbermann Bush adminstration use of bogus terror threat is 'most overt accusati
: [Ht]LOx September 26, 2007, 09:02:42 AM
David Edwards and Jason Rhyne
Raw Story
Tuesday September 25, 2007

Former US Associate Deputy Attorney General Bruce Fein joined Keith Olbermann to discuss recent charges that the Bush administration employed false intelligence to convince lawmakers they should temporarily expand domestic spying powers under the Federal Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA).

"These charges...are the most overt accusation yet of a government gone so wrong that it is using the terrorist's weapon of fear against its own people--and against other legislators who will not go along with the program," Olbermann said.

At a forum on FISA hosted by the Center for American Progress, Rep. Jane Harman (D-CA) said that on Aug. 2, word of specific intelligence prompted increased security on Capitol Hill. The House and Senate passed the FISA expansion bill days later.

In what she called a "Rovian strategy of using terrorism as a wedge political issue," Rep. Harman charged that the threat, "it turned out, was bogus; the intelligence agencies knew that."

"The President continues to insist...that he can spy on Americans without warrants irrespective of what a statute says--that he has constitutional authority to override whatever Congress may do," said Fine.

"There is no disinclination of this administration," he continued "to stoop to misrepresentations and omissions to heighten the sense of danger to get whatever they wish in the legislative package."

Before passage of the FISA expansion, Fein said that "the administration was openly telling members of Congress if they voted against the bill that the administration insisted upon, Americans would die."

"There wasn't any substantiation of that," he said. "It was just: 'Trust me, we always tell the truth."

Fein insisted that the president would continue to "have his way if he continues to frighten the Congress and Congress refuses to demand information and facts rather than just rumor."

"The mind reels," Olbermann responded.

The following video is from MSNBC's Countdown, broadcast on September 24.
: CFR's Hart Suggests False Flag Event For Iran War
: [Ht]LOx September 27, 2007, 10:59:35 PM
Tacit warning to Iranian government suggests staged event may be used to ensure "bombs fall on your head"

Steve Watson
Thursday, Sept 27, 2007
 Council on Foreign Relations member Gary Hart, famed for stating that Americans will die en- mass on home soil this century, and for declaring 48 hours after 9/11 that it should be used "to carry out a new world order", has written a scathing letter to the leaders of Iran clearly warning that the U.S. government has a history of staging provocations in order to initiate conflict with other nations and that Iran could be next.

Hart references the sinking of the USS Maine in Havana harbor in 1898, which led to the Spanish American war, as well as the Gulf of Tonkin incident, which was ultimately the catalyst for airstrikes on Vietnam.

Why does Hart reference these two cases? Because they are both examples of staged managed events that were used to coerce the American public into supporting war.

The sinking of the Maine was immediately blamed on the Spanish, with the innovator of yellow journalism William Randolph-Hearst enflaming anti-Spanish sentiment in his papers by definitively claiming that it was a Spanish plot. No reliable evidence was ever produced linking Spain to the event and it is now widely believed that the event was at best a mechanical failure or at worst a false flag operation.

Similarly the Gulf of Tonkin incident saw President Johnson accuse North Vietnamese PT boats of attacking strike carries in the gulf, the USS Maddox and the USS Turner Joy. Documents and tapes released via the Freedom of Information Act have since shown that Johnson knew that there were no PT boats and no attacks, but still went ahead with lying to the American public on national TV to garner support for escalating the war in Vietnam. Johnson also had the NSA fake intelligence data to make it appear as if the two US ships had been lost.

Hart, one of the instigators of the Homeland Security apparatus that has evolved since 9/11, then goes on to state that American people are reluctant to go to war unless provoked and coldly remarks "For historians of American wars the question is whether we provoke provocations."

He then mentions the Iraq war and refers to how the public were duped into accepting the invasion via the spectre of 9/11. Hart writes "even in this instance, we were led to believe that the mass murderer of American civilians, Osama bin Laden, was lurking, literally or figuratively, in the vicinity of Baghdad."

To those who do not read history Gary Hart's letter makes for a confusing read, but to those who know anything about staged provocations, the intent is clear. Hart is declaring that the elite controlled US government has attacked countries based on false pretenses in the past and will gladly do so again.

Hart's declarations carry the same sentiment as those of fellow globalist Zbigniew Brzezinski earlier this year. The Former National Security Advisor and founding member of the elite policy making group the Trilateral Commission implicitly warned a Senate Foreign Relations Committee that an attack on Iran could be launched following a staged provocation in Iraq or a false flag terror attack within the U.S.

Brzezinski alluded to the potential for the Bush administration to manufacture a false flag Gulf of Tonkin type incident in describing a "plausible scenario for a military collision with Iran," which would revolve around "some provocation in Iraq or a terrorist act in the US blamed on Iran, culminating in a ‘defensive’ US military action against Iran that plunges a lonely America into a spreading and deepening quagmire eventually ranging across Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.”

Texas Congressman and Presidential candidate Ron Paul has also recently warned that a "Gulf of Tonkin like event" may be used to provoke air strikes on Iran as numerous factors collide to heighten expectations that America may soon be embroiled in its third war in six years.

Here is Gary Hart's letter in full:

News Links
: Shocking New Revelations On 9/11 Ground Zero Cover-Up
: [Ht]LOx September 28, 2007, 12:45:40 PM
First responder heard WTC 7 demolition countdown, was warned to "shut up" when he reported secondary explosions

Prison Planet | September 28, 2007
Paul Joseph Watson

A 9/11 first responder has shed new light on how he heard a countdown before the demolition of Building 7, how he was told to "shut up" by superiors when he tried to report secondary explosions and why "vicious security" measures were enacted to prevent people from accessing certain areas of ground zero.

Former Air Force Special Operations for Search and Rescue expert, Kevin McPadden traveled to ground zero completely of his own accord and spent the next four days searching through the rubble and nearby buildings for survivors.

In a video interview with Alex Jones, McPadden describes the moments before the collapse of WTC 7.

"When we saw the firemen pick up their equipment and start bustling back and forth they were getting ready to do something, we started asking questions," said McPadden.

Despite numerous attempts to glean information from Red Cross officials, McPadden and other first responders were told nothing while one official, shortly after talking to firemen, held his hand over his radio and told them to "just sit tight" and "calm down" before admitting "they're thinking about bringing the building down."

McPadden and his colleagues were miffed as to what the official meant by this statement, initially thinking the building next to them was possibly being brought down.

"He took his hand off for the last three seconds of it - and you hear three, two, one," said McPadden, adding that the official then gave a heartfelt look and told the first responders, "just run for your life."

McPadden got the impression that the Red Cross official had been ordered not to give the first responders a warning that the building was coming down.

"And you heard - boom, boom, boom," said McPadden, describing the sound of bombs tearing down the building.

McPadden explained that the reason Democracy Now host Amy Goodman and others were captured on video (watch above) running from the scene and reaching stationary onlookers as the building started to collapse is that they were able to hear the full countdown on the radio further own the street.

Later in the interview, McPadden reveals how he witnessed up close steel beams from the twin towers that had been symmetrically cut at perfect angles as is shown in this image - a clear sign that explosives were used. McPadden said that officials were acting very suspiciously and subsequently prevented people from getting near the beams.

He also highlighted the fact that "vicious security" was quickly set up around certain areas of ground zero and that people were barred from accessing certain areas for no reason and also had their cameras confiscated.

When McPadden attempted to report that secondary explosions were heard by numerous people, he was harshly ordered to "shut up" and "don't repeat it" by superiors.

He also talked to numerous firefighters who acknowledged that they also heard secondary explosions, but said that "Obviously somewhere in their command structure, they were told to shut up."

Video Coming Soon

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD September 29, 2007, 09:31:47 PM
I found this

who in the fuck is in charge anymore? this shit has to end
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy September 30, 2007, 09:25:55 AM
I have already begun my preparation for a survival plan . I am pretty close to NYC, so I will need it when the shit hits the fan ..

Saddest part of it all is, with all the wasted resources spent on militaries around the world, and with all the incredible wealth in the hands of the few, this could be an incredible world...

instead there is rampant disease, poverty, violence and greed ..

Mostly perpetuated by religion ..

: 9/11: Unusual volumes on Put Options just before the attack. Swiss study
: [Ht]LOx October 01, 2007, 12:01:48 PM
 9/11 Blogger
Sunday September 30, 2007

September 11, 2001: Unusual volumes on Put Options just before the attack. Swiss study

Says the 11 September 2007 issue of Les Echos, the leading French financial newspaper ]

The paper continues:

Six years after the attacks, a study has been released by two professors of the university of Zurich on the atypical volumes of put options placed before the attacks on World Trade Centre.

The authors, one specialist in derivatives, the other a specialist in econometrics, studied the options to sell (put options), used to speculate on the fall in the price of 20 large American groups.

(Read the full the French article below – Lesage translation)

“Atypical volumes, very rare on certain titles, lead to suspicions of insider trading. " Six years after the attacks of World Trade Center, it is the disconcerting conclusion of a recent study by Marc Chesney and Loriano Mancini, professors at the University of Zurich.

The authors, one a specialist in derivatives, the other a specialist in econometrics, worked on the options to sell, used to speculate on the fall, of 20 great American groups, in particular in aeronautics and finance.

Their analysis relates to the transactions carried out between the 6 and September 10, 2001 compared to the average volumes recorded over long period (ten years for the majority of the companies).

The two specialists, in addition, calculated the probability of several options of the same sector having significant volumes in a few days.

"We tried to see whether the movements recorded on certain titles little before the attacks were common. We show that, for certain companies like American Airlines, United Airlines, Merrill Lynch, Bank of America, Citigroup, Marsh & McLehnan, movements are scarce from a statistical point of view, a fortiori in comparison to the volumes observed for other values like Coke or Hewlett-Packard, explains Marc Chesney, a former professor with (the prestigious business school) HEC, author of "Money Laundering and Financing of Terrorism" (published by Ellipses Editions).

“For example, 1.535 contracts of options to sell in the term October 2001, with 30 dollars, were exchanged on American Airlines on September 10, against a daily average of approximately 24 contracts over the three previous weeks "the fact that the market is bear at the time" does not explain enough these surprising volumes "

"Enormous" profits:

The authors also studied the profitability of the options to sell, and of purchase, for an investor having bought a product between the 6th and the 10th "For certain titles, the profits were enormous. For example, investors having acquired options to sell of Citigroup with a maturity at October 2001 could potentially have gained more than 15 million dollars ",He said.

The conjunction of the data between volumes and profitability, the two authors conclude "the probability that there were offences of initiates (insider trading) is strong for American Airlines, United Airlines, Merrill Lynch, Bank of America, Citigroup and JP Morgan.

It is not a legal proof but it is the findings of statistical methods confirming signs of irregularities ".

The study is certainly not the first on possible insider trading in connection to the attacks but it is disconcerting in comparison with the conclusions of the regulatory authorities. As of September 2001, the Securities Exchange Commission and its European counterparts were interested in the atypical stock exchange movements before the attacks.

In an official statement of July 2004, the American regulator stated that it examined more than 9,5 million transactions in the weeks preceding September 11, then delivered its conclusions to the National Commission on the terrorist attacks (The 9/11 Comission).

According to this commission, unusual transactions certainly took place but each had a non-criminal explanation. The authorities evoke, for example, analyst’s investor advice to explain certain rises of volumes.

Same tone from the ex-COB now the AMF (French SEC), which states in its annual report of 2002: "the elements obtained forbid to show any evidence that financial groups related to the instigators of the attacks could have used the Stock Exchange to realise operations"

News Links
: You have To Check This Out!!!!
: [Ht]LOx October 01, 2007, 12:06:45 PM
I just found this on the front page of and was blown away. The above short film is produced by Alfonso Cuarón, the critically acclaimed director of "Children of Men", and is narrated by and based on the new book from author Naomi Klein - "The Shock Doctrine".

News Links
: Ray McGovern, Retired CIA Analyst, Discusses 9/11
: [Ht]LOx October 01, 2007, 12:23:47 PM
Listen Here

FBI Thought Bombs Brought Down Towers On 9/11 Check It Out Here

Barry Komisaruk, PhD, Rutgers Dean and Professor Questions 9/11

Top Bush Aide Tells UK MPs "I Hate All Iranians"

Why Did WTC 7's Rooftop Penthouse Collapse Ahead Of The Rest Of The Tower?

: New Eyewitness
: [Ht]LOx October 04, 2007, 03:50:36 PM
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Wednesday, October 3, 2007

A man who was working in the World Trade Center on 9/11 has told that he personally witnessed explosions in the lobby area after he left the building to buy hot dogs at the same time that the first plane hit the north tower.

Watch the video.

"Once the plane hit the top, that's when the bombs started going off on the first floor," said Dean Brown.

"It's like the plane actually hit the first floor."

"You were hearing boom, boom, boom, boom from the top floor all the way down to the first floor."

The eyewitness also describes talking to devastated firefighters who told him there were bombs in the building.
: Continuity of the US government.. TOP SECRET!
: [Ht]LOx October 08, 2007, 01:42:54 AM
 You Tube
Sunday October 07, 2007

Rep. Peter DeFazio gives a speech on the house floor to fellow members discussing the fact that Bush Administration has denied the entire Dept of Homeland Security Committee access to the so called detailed plans that the White House has drafted to ensure the continuity of government in case of a major terrorist attack.

Do you really trust George Bush?  video
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: KaRtToOn October 09, 2007, 02:24:53 AM
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: fade October 09, 2007, 02:22:46 PM
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD October 09, 2007, 04:01:46 PM
You have to love the stupid shit this White House does

the last link is reuters and it takes forever to load for me.

All I can say is this is what happens when you try to play politics with national security,fucking idiots couldn't wait 4 days to release Bin Laden's 9/11 statement and totally fucked up our ability to read the terrorists comms in real time.

who's side is Bush on anyway?

Oh, I forgot, this is the side he is on
: Burning Man and WTC Thermite Residue Compared By Dr.Steven Jones
: [Ht]LOx October 10, 2007, 06:33:11 AM <---check it out there


kart im very surprised you took time out of ur day to try and discredit me and attempt to make me look stupid
or crazy. Im sure you are very smart person but you are conditioned and i understand that so i will not argue with you about 9/11 but i will just run down 3 "facts" about 9/11 pre,during and post 9/11 and if you can't even question the events of it then you are lost.

 Between September 6 and 7, the Chicago Board Options Exchange saw purchases of 4,744 put options on United Airlines, but only 396 call options. Assuming that 4,000 of the options were bought by people with advance knowledge of the imminent attacks, these "insiders" would have profited by almost $5 million.

- On September 10, 4,516 put options on American Airlines were bought on the Chicago exchange, compared to only 748 calls. Again, there was no news at that point to justify this imbalance; Again, assuming that 4,000 of these options trades represent "insiders", they would represent a gain of about $4 million.

- [The levels of put options purchased above were more than six times higher than normal.]

- No similar trading in other airlines occurred on the Chicago exchange in the days immediately preceding Black Tuesday.

Morgan Stanley Dean Witter & Co., which occupied 22 floors of the World Trade Center, saw 2,157 of its October $45 put options bought in the three trading days before Black Tuesday; this compares to an average of 27 contracts per day before September 6. Morgan Stanley's share price fell from $48.90 to $42.50 in the aftermath of the attacks. Assuming that 2,000 of these options contracts were bought based upon knowledge of the approaching attacks, their purchasers could have profited by at least $1.2 million.

- Merrill Lynch & Co., which occupied 22 floors of the World Trade Center, saw 12,215 October $45 put options bought in the four trading days before the attacks; the previous average volume in those shares had been 252 contracts per day [a 1200% increase!]. When trading resumed, Merrill's shares fell from $46.88 to $41.50; assuming that 11,000 option contracts were bought by "insiders", their profit would have been about $5.5 million.

Investors have yet to collect more than $2.5 million in profits they made trading options in the stock of United Airlines before the Sept. 11, terrorist attacks, according to a source familiar with the trades and market data".

"The uncollected money raises suspicions that the investors - whose identities and nationalities have not been made public - had advance knowledge of the strikes" OR THEY ATLEST KNEW SOMETHING BIG WAS ABOUT TO HAPPEN

2.During 9/11
In May of 2001, by presidential order, Cheney was handed direct control of all wargame and drill operations. This meant he was solely in charge of the overlapping NORAD drills and wargames on the morning of 9/11, that prevented Standard Operating Procedure from being implemented, and any of the hijacked planes being intercepted.

So Fire Fighters,Police And Reporters Are Lying About Bombs? "please dude"

Fire Brought Down Building 7? or was it larry silverstein himself fucking admiting to it on PBS

3.Post 9/11

FBI Withholding 84 More Tapes of Pentagon on 9/11
Magically Only 1 shows impact so why not release the rest?

Bush Caught In a Fucking Lie "ohh i saw the first plane?"

WTC Steel Removal
The Expeditious Destruction of the Evidence at Ground Zero

Steel was the structural material of the buildings. As such it was the most important evidence to preserve in order to puzzle out how the structures held up to the impacts and fires, but then disintegrated into rubble. Since no steel-framed buildings had ever collapsed due to fires, the steel should have been subjected to detailed analysis. So what did the authorities do with this key evidence of the vast crime and unprecedented engineering failure? They recycled it.

Some 185,101 tons of structural steel have been hauled away from Ground Zero. Most of the steel has been recycled as per the city's decision to swiftly send the wreckage to salvage yards in New Jersey. The city's hasty move has outraged many victims' families who believe the steel should have been examined more thoroughly. Last month, fire experts told Congress that about 80% of the steel was scrapped without being examined because investigators did not have the authority to preserve the wreckage. 1 

The bulk of the steel was apparently shipped to China and India. The Chinese firm Baosteel purchased 50,000 tons at a rate of $120 per ton, compared to an average price of $160 paid by local mills in the previous year. 2 

Mayor Bloomberg, a former engineering major, was not concerned about the destruction of the evidence:
If you want to take a look at the construction methods and the design, that's in this day and age what computers do. Just looking at a piece of metal generally doesn't tell you anything. 3 

The pace of the steel's removal was very rapid, even in the first weeks after the attack. By September 29, 130,000 tons of debris -- most of it apparently steel -- had been removed. 4 

During the official investigation controlled by FEMA, one hundred fifty pieces of steel were saved for future study. 5   One hundred fifty pieces out of hundreds of thousands of pieces! Moreover it is not clear who made the decision to save these particular pieces. It is clear that the volunteer investigators were doing their work at the Fresh Kills dump, not at Ground Zero, so whatever steel they had access to was first picked over by the people running the cleanup operation.

Recycled WTC Steel Used in US Warship

News stories in 2006 reported that 24 tons of steel from the World Trade Center was being used to manufacture a warship named the U.S.S. New York by Northrop Grumman in a shipyard on the banks of the Mississippi. Done. Please Don't Post Negetive Bullshit In The Thread Please - i still love you kart

The Third Tower "New Interviews"


: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy October 10, 2007, 12:24:29 PM

He isnt "conditioned" he just believes everything they want him to ..

Oh wait..

Carry on ..
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: KaRtToOn October 10, 2007, 05:01:58 PM
So not going to bother to read your response lox just like I haven't read any of the posts in this thread

Hope your tin foil hats serves you well into the future!!  ;D
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy October 10, 2007, 10:01:16 PM
WASHINGTON - The U.S. tortures prisoners in violation of international law, former President Jimmy Carter said Wednesday, adding that President Bush makes up his own definition of torture.

"Our country for the first time in my life time has abandoned the basic principle of human rights," Carter said on CNN. "We've said that the Geneva Conventions do not apply to those people in Abu Ghraib prison and Guantanamo, and we've said we can torture prisoners and deprive them of an accusation of a crime."

Bush, responding to an Oct. 4 report by The New York Times on secret Justice Department memorandums supporting the use of "harsh interrogation techniques," defended the techniques Friday by proclaiming: "This government does not torture people."

Carter said the interrogation methods cited by the Times, including "head-slapping, simulated drowning and frigid temperatures," constitute torture "if you use the international norms of torture as has always been honored — certainly in the last 60 years since the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was promulgated.

"But you can make your own definition of human rights and say we don't violate them, and you can make your own definition of torture and say we don't violate them," Carter said.

In an interview that aired Wednesday on BBC, Carter ripped Vice President Dick Cheney as "a militant who avoided any service of his own in the military."

Carter went on to say Cheney has been "a disaster for our country. I think he's been overly persuasive on President George Bush."

Cheney spokeswoman Megan Mitchell declined to speak to Carter's allegations.

"We're not going to engage in this kind of rhetoric," she said.

In the CNN interview, the Democratic former president disparaged the field of Republican presidential candidates.

"They all seem to be outdoing each other in who wants to go to war first with Iran, who wants to keep Guantanamo open longer and expand its capacity — things of that kind," Carter said.

He said he also disagreed with positions taken by Democratic Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, who have declined to promise to withdraw all U.S. troops from Iraq over the following four years if elected president next year.

: Re: Burning Man and WTC Thermite Residue Compared By Dr.Steven Jones
: MrMaroon5 October 13, 2007, 12:50:32 PM
WTC Steel Removal
The Expeditious Destruction of the Evidence at Ground Zero

Well, this is goverment propoganda to put this incident behind us and present a false sheild of security while they take away freedoms.

Steel was the structural material of the buildings. As such it was the most important evidence to preserve in order to puzzle out how the structures held up to the impacts and fires, but then disintegrated into rubble. Since no steel-framed buildings had ever collapsed due to fires, the steel should have been subjected to detailed analysis. So what did the authorities do with this key evidence of the vast crime and unprecedented engineering failure? They recycled it.

I am sure that some steel was tested. You can tell a lot from a small sample size if it is chosed correctly. Also, I am sure the insurance companies insisted on this to prove it it was due to the crash or faulty design and mechanical contractor changes. Also, as you stated, no steal structure (I am taking your source as correct) has ever collapsed due to fire, there was also a huge modified wind shear due to the building being open at a high elevation, a large impact, and the weight of a plane as well which I am sure would excede the safe operating load of those trusses.

Some 185,101 tons of structural steel have been hauled away from Ground Zero. Most of the steel has been recycled as per the city's decision to swiftly send the wreckage to salvage yards in New Jersey. The city's hasty move has outraged many victims' families who believe the steel should have been examined more thoroughly. Last month, fire experts told Congress that about 80% of the steel was scrapped without being examined because investigators did not have the authority to preserve the wreckage. 1 

This is not good sampling procedure. At the very least pictures and small pieces should be avaible from a good percent of the wreckage. But, they can't practically lay out the whole building at an off-site for examination

The bulk of the steel was apparently shipped to China and India. The Chinese firm Baosteel purchased 50,000 tons at a rate of $120 per ton, compared to an average price of $160 paid by local mills in the previous year. 2 

This is common practice. The cut rate of the steel was probably traded in for cut rate foreign steel finished products
Mayor Bloomberg, a former engineering major, was not concerned about the destruction of the evidence:
If you want to take a look at the construction methods and the design, that's in this day and age what computers do. Just looking at a piece of metal generally doesn't tell you anything. 3

This is the dumbest thing anybody with things to cover up has stated yet. Computers calculate things in idea conditions; all materials are in design range, the building was constructed completly according to engineering parameters, and all failure variables were accounted and included in the analysis. Testing is preformed to check real life variables and chaos compared to an idealized computer test. An FEA  analysis is a good start but certainly not a totally safe assumption.

The pace of the steel's removal was very rapid, even in the first weeks after the attack. By September 29, 130,000 tons of debris -- most of it apparently steel -- had been removed. 4 

Any crime scene is cleaned up as fast as possible. This is no big deal as long as important evidence is preserved and the removal documented. Also, you must rember, the owners of this building are proabably very involved in goverment so it is in their best interest to clean it up fast because of fiances.

During the official investigation controlled by FEMA, one hundred fifty pieces of steel were saved for future study. 5   One hundred fifty pieces out of hundreds of thousands of pieces! Moreover it is not clear who made the decision to save these particular pieces. It is clear that the volunteer investigators were doing their work at the Fresh Kills dump, not at Ground Zero, so whatever steel they had access to was first picked over by the people running the cleanup operation.

That is enough of a sample size if it was chosen properly by the right people.

Recycled WTC Steel Used in US Warship

Feel good propoganda

The problem that I have with the testing is that they are blowing it off as insignificant. This is a building failure along with a crime scene. Plus, some shit had to be tested where are the results? The engineering firm and mechanical contractors have a huge liability if something wasn't followed that caused failure.

One change that is documented is that the trusses were bolted (a less costly and less stable fastner) instead of hot rivited. This is part of the problem with the truss collapse with the extreme chaos factors during 911.

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Indignation October 13, 2007, 04:54:17 PM
So not going to bother to read your response lox just like I haven't read any of the posts in this thread

Hope your tin foil hats serves you well into the future!!  ;D

How dare you interupt this cut-n-paste fest!!!
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 October 13, 2007, 06:35:24 PM
So not going to bother to read your response lox just like I haven't read any of the posts in this thread

Hope your tin foil hats serves you well into the future!!  ;D

How dare you interupt this cut-n-paste fest!!!

I think we have proved that John Wilkes Booth killed Kennedy from the grassy knoll.
: Before 9/11
: [Ht]LOx October 15, 2007, 12:42:12 AM
: Flight 77 "the white plane"
: [Ht]LOx October 15, 2007, 01:00:12 AM check it
: Exclusive!!! Anthony Saltalamacia Verifies Willie Rodriguez's Story
: [Ht]LOx October 15, 2007, 01:40:46 AM

Anthony Saltalamacia was with Rodriguez in the basement. For the first time after 6 years, they meet and his recollection is taped. This is part of the upcoming video by Mr. Rodriguez.
: NIST Admits Total Collapse Of Twin Towers Unexplainable
: [Ht]LOx October 16, 2007, 11:21:26 PM

Implicitly acknowledges controlled demolition only means by which towers could have fallen at free fall speed

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Tuesday, October 16, 2007

The National Institute for Standards and Technology has been forced to admit that the total free-fall collapse of the twin towers cannot be explained after an exhaustive scientific study, implicitly acknowledging that controlled demolition is the only means by which the buildings could have come down.

In a recent letter (PDF link) to 9/11 victim's family representatives Bill Doyle and Bob McIlvaine, NIST states, "We are unable to provide a full explanation of the total collapse."

A 10,000 page scientific study only offers theories as to how the "collapse initiation" proceeded and fails to address how it was possible for part of a WTC structure to fall through the path of most resistance at freefall speed, completely violating the accepted laws of physics.

(Article continues below)

In addition, NIST's own studies confirmed that virtually none of the steel in either tower reached temperatures hotter than 500 degrees. The point at which steel weakens is 1000 degrees and melting point is reached at 1,500 degrees, according to NIST itself.

    "NIST'S 10,000-page report purports to explain what it calls "collapse initiation" -- the loss of several floors' vertical support," writes Kevin Barrett of Scholars for 9/11 Truth. "In order to dream up this preposterous scenario, NIST had to ignore its own tests that showed that virtually none of the steel got hotter than 500 degrees f. It had to claim that somehow the planes took out many core columns, despite the fact that only a direct hit by an engine would have been likely to do so, and that the chances of this happening even once are fairly low. It had to preposterously allege that the plane that nicked the corner of the South Tower took out more core columns than the one that hit the North Tower almost dead center. It had to tweak all the parameters till they screamed bloody murder and say that the steel was far weaker than it actually was, the fire was far hotter than it actually was, the sagging was far greater than it actually was, and so on. And so NIST hallucinated a computer-generated fantasy scenario for "collapse initiation"--the failure of a few floors."

    "But how do you get from the failure of a few floors to total collapse at free-fall speed of the entire structure? The short answer: You don't. Anyone with the slightest grasp of the laws of physics understands that even if all of the vertical supports on a few floors somehow failed catastrophically at exactly the same moment--a virtually impossible event, but one necessary to explain why the Towers would come straight down rather than toppling sideways--the top part of the building could not fall THROUGH the still-intact, highly robust lower part of the building, straight through the path of most resistance, just as fast as it would have fallen through thin air."
    "Thus total free-fall collapse, even given NIST's ridiculous "initiation" scenario, is utterly impossible. The probability of it happening is exactly equal to the probability of the whole building suddenly falling upward and landing on the moon," concludes Barrett.

NIST have yet to properly address the sudden freefall collapse of WTC Building 7, which imploded on the late afternoon of 9/11 despite not being hit by a jetliner.

In August 2006, NIST promised to scientifically evaluate whether explosive devices could have contributed to the 47-story building's collapse but no answers have been forthcoming.

In August of this year, James Quintiere, Ph.D., former Chief of the Fire Science Division of the National Institute of Standards and Technology, called for an independent inquiry into NIST's investigation of the collapse of the twin towers.

Quintiere said NIST's conclusions were "questionable", that they failed to follow standard scientific procedures and that their failure to address Building 7 belied the fact that the investigation was incomplete.

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 October 17, 2007, 01:00:29 AM
Steel can retemper and cause weakening at as low as 600 degrees and it melts at about 2800 degrees. I think 1500 degrees is when it starts to turn orange and become very pliable but not pourable.

There is a mistake from prison planet. But am I just an idiot? I have never seen or heard anything about a third building collapsing.
Also, do you have a link for a summarized report of the NIST data? I really can't read 10000 pages. I would like to read it from a site other than prisonplanet since they seem to be biased.
It has been hard to find clear data on the collapse speed of the towers. I have read about the "freefall" which would be impossible if the truss collapse sandwich effect was true. But, some
accounts point to a slower fall and others to a free fall.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx October 17, 2007, 09:42:28 AM
haha dude the 3rd building is world trade center 7 the one larry silverstein admits to blowing up himself

maroon come on irc sometime and we can debate in pm's
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD October 17, 2007, 11:46:11 AM
the free fall speed has been quoted on the history channel,the discovery channel,nova and front line to name a few main stream shows and networks to use the term.

I watched a show on frontline last nite about dick Cheney and the who is exactly running the White house and how they have basically trashed the way the Justice dept. is supposed to give legal opinions on what the pres. proposes.

then there are  the thousands of presidential findings that Bush signed that say even tho he signed a bill the laws and pules in that bill don't apply to the Executive branch.

click on the link and watch the documentry, it will blow your mind

These ass holes have used this phoney war on terror to attack the rights of americans,they only call it a war to fool ppl.
: [Ht]LOx October 18, 2007, 04:23:21 AM
part 1

part 2

part 3

News Links

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy October 18, 2007, 01:20:38 PM
the free fall speed has been quoted on the history channel,the discovery channel,nova and front line to name a few main stream shows and networks to use the term.

I watched a show on frontline last nite about dick Cheney and the who is exactly running the White house and how they have basically trashed the way the Justice dept. is supposed to give legal opinions on what the pres. proposes.

then there are  the thousands of presidential findings that Bush signed that say even tho he signed a bill the laws and pules in that bill don't apply to the Executive branch.

click on the link and watch the documentry, it will blow your mind

These ass holes have used this phoney war on terror to attack the rights of americans,they only call it a war to fool ppl.

Yeah even on PRI (Public Radio International) and NPR (National Public radio) they commonly refer to the judicial branch, and the supreme court as the " mostly powerless" judicial branch , or the   "basically irrelevant judiciary"  ..

that is because they understand all the Shit that has been passed into law behind the scenes, and buried in other laws ..
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD October 20, 2007, 12:40:43 AM
Christ, now the Administration thinks its above the law again, this time they don't want to have archive official E-Mails,something every corp in America is required by law to do,what the fuck are they so intent on hiding for the US population.

Nixon tried to cover up one break in and was almost impeached, what the hell are they hiding?,8599,1673881,00.html

thats the story in Time magazine
: Iraq: US involved in terrorist acts
: [Ht]LOx October 23, 2007, 03:54:36 AM
Press TV | October 22, 2007

 A report by Iraq's parliament confirms that the US military had cooperated with terrorists in a raid on a village in Diyala province.

Ali Adib, an MP form the United Iraqi Alliance, in a report to the Iraqi National Assembly on Sunday said that a probe launched by the parliament into the incident had proved that the US army helped terrorists attack the Shia village of Jizani al-Imam on October 15.

At least 26 civilians, including women and children, were killed in the raid, one of the bloodiest massacres since the US invasion of Iraq.

According to IRNA, after the report, Iraqi MP's considered a bill to end the presence of foreign forces in Iraq.

The report and the decision by the MPs represent another challenge to the embattled Bush's administration which is under fire over the unpopular war in Iraq.

The Iraqi parliament also condemned an attack on Baghdad's Sadr city by the US military which left 49 civilians dead.

Full Story Here
: George W. Bush, Globalist
: [Ht]LOx October 23, 2007, 05:58:16 AM

Pat Buchanan / Yahoo News | October 12, 2007

Have the Bush Republicans ceased to be reliable custodians of American sovereignty? So it would seem.

President George W. Bush began well. He rejected the Kyoto Protocol on global warming negotiated by Vice President Al Gore as both injurious to the economy and rooted in questionable science. He refused to allow the armed forces and diplomats of the United States to be brought under the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court.

But now President Bush is about to take his country by the hand and make a great leap forward into world government. He has signed on to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, or the Law of the Sea Treaty (LOST), which transfers jurisdiction over the Atlantic, Pacific, Indian and Arctic oceans and all the oil and mineral resources they contain, to an International Seabed Authority. This second United Nations would be ceded eternal hegemony over two-thirds of the Earth. It is the greatest U.N. power grab in history and, thanks to George Bush, is about to succeed.

Within the Authority, consisting of 155 nations, America would have one vote and no veto. However, we would pay the principal share of the operating costs, as we do today of the United Nations.

In 1978, Ronald Reagan declared, "No national interest of the United States can justify handing sovereign control of two-thirds of the Earth's surface over to the Third World."

Rejecting the New International Economic Order that sought to effect a historic transfer of wealth and power from the First World to the Third, President Reagan in 1982 refused to sign the Law of the Sea Treaty or send it to the Senate. Now, Bush, Sen. Richard Lugar, R-Ind., and Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., have resurrected this monstrosity and are about to ram it through the U.S. Senate with, if you can believe it, the support of the U.S. Navy.

The rot of globalism runs deep in this capital city.

What is the matter with Bush? What is the matter with the U.S. Navy? For the sea treaty grants us no rights we do not already have in international law and tradition — it only codifies them. It siphons off national rights, national sovereignty and national wealth, however, and empowers global bureaucrats and Third World kleptocrats whose common trait is jealousy of and hostility toward the United States.

Under LOST, if the United States wishes to mine the ocean or scoop up minerals from its floor, we would have to pay a fee and get permission from the Authority, then provide a subsidiary of the Authority called the Enterprise with a comparable site for its own exploitation with our technology. Eventually, the Authority would collect 7 percent of the revenue from the U.S. mining site, giving this institution of world government what the United Nations has hungered for for decades: the power to tax nations.

While the treaty assures the right of peaceful passage on the high seas and through narrows that are territorial waters, we already have that right under international law. And for the past two centuries, we have had as guarantor of the right of free passage the U.S. Navy. Now, we will have it courtesy of the International Seabed Authority.

"It is inconceivable to this naval officer," writes Adm. James Lyons, former commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific, "why the Senate would willingly want to forfeit its responsibility for America's freedom of the seas to the unelected and unaccountable international agency that would be created by the ratification of LOST.

"The power of the U.S. Navy, not some anonymous bureaucracy, has been the nation's guarantee to our access to and freedom of the seas. I can cite many maritime operations — from the blockade of Cuba in 1962, to the reflagging of ships in the Persian Gulf, to our submarine intelligence-gathering programs — that have been critical to maintaining our freedom of the seas and protecting our waters from encroachment. All those examples would likely have to be submitted to an international tribunal for approval if we become a signatory to this treaty. ... This is incomprehensible."

U.S. warships today inspect vessels suspected of carrying nuclear contraband. In the Cold War, U.S. submarines entered harbors to tap into communications cables to protect our national security. Our subs routinely transit straits submerged. To do this, post-LOST, the Navy would have to get permission from an Authority composed of states most of which have an almost unbroken record of voting against us in the United Nations.

Why are we doing this? Do we think we will win the approbation of the international community if we show ourselves to be good global citizens by surrendering our rights and our wealth?

The Law of the Sea Treaty is an utterly unnecessary transfer of authority from the United States and of the wealth of its citizens to global bureaucrats who have never had our interests at heart, and to Third World regimes that have never been reliable friends. That Republicans senators think this is a good idea speaks volumes about what has become of the party of T.R., Bob Taft, Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan.

And they call themselves conservatives.

But Im Wrong About The New World Order Being Real?

Daddy Bush Says It

Gordon Brown The British Prime Minister Says It

Bill Clinton Says It

It's All Around Us Now


And I End This With Some Johnny Cash

: Re: George W. Bush, Globalist
: Skiiz October 23, 2007, 12:57:41 PM
Pat Buchanan / Yahoo News | October 12, 2007

Was all I needed to see, though the Law of the Seas Treaty is RIDICULOUSLY broad and INSANELY comprehensive, it resolves a lot of issues between individual countries pertaining to the use of the seas. Buchanan is upset that we won't be able to do whatever we want whenever we want to whomever we want why so ever we want.

I love talking heads, LOST is full of hundreds of sub-sections on EVERYTHING about the use of the seas, things "155 countries" agree on, Christ, it's not like we own the fucking seas. I get that he hates "BIG" government, anything that restricts unilateral action, but it's absurd to even entertain the idea that we should answer to NO ONE about what we do with seas that hundreds of millions of people depend on.

Part of the LOST treaty that never got implemented because the US never signed it was an early warning system that could have prevented fatalities when the Tsunami hit the Indian ocean. But it's more important that we float a couple submarines into random ports in the world...
: Neo-Con Podhoretz Tells Audience To "Shut Up" After Tough Questions
: [Ht]LOx October 24, 2007, 05:35:54 AM

Giuliani's foreign policy advisor Implies Iran should be bombed because it carried out 9/11

Paul Joseph Watson / Prison Planet | October 23, 2007

Arch-Neo Con Norman Podhoretz's book reading at a recent Barnes and Noble appearance in New York turned into a hostile affair after he told the audience that Iran should be bombed because "We were attacked by Islamofascists on 9/11," before being bombarded with accusatory questions and eventually telling the crowd to "shut up".

Rudy Giuliani's foreign policy advisor was subject to walkouts by individuals disgusted at the fact that Podhoretz openly called for air strikes on Iran, labeling Podhoretz a "fascist" who would have blood on his hands.

Asked whether there should be a fresh investigation into 9/11, Podhoretz simply dismissed the suggestion as "paranoia" and refused to answer the question.

Watch the video.

He later defended the fact that he signed the infamous Project For a New American Century documents, a Neo-Con manifesto for world domination that includes advocating the use of race-specific bio-weapons, and claimed that the PNAC had been "misrepresented".


race-specific bio-weapons
It's In The PNAC DOC On Page 72

Podhoretz then admitted that the CIA had overthrown the U.S.-friendly Iranian government of Mohammad Mossadegh in the 50's, but called it "ancient history."

He then went on to make a case that Iran was behind the violence in Iraq and had formed an alliance with Al-Qaeda, despite the fact that the two are Shia and Sunni respectively and as such are arch-enemies. He was then educated about how in fact it was the U.S. government that is funding Al-Qaeda affiliated groups to attack Iran. This mattered little to Podhoretz, who was then asked why we should "fight back" against Iran by bombing them when they had never attacked us?

News Links To That. Group Is Called Jundullah;jsessionid=E3KMWW5VVIXZNQFIQMFSFF4AVCBQ0IV0?xml=/news/2007/05/27/wiran27.xml <--The Whole Thing

Arms cache belonging to Jundullah - the Sunni Al-Qaeda terrorist group being funded by the CIA with President Bush's approval.

Podhoretz's answer was to state that, "We were attacked by Islamofascists on 9/11," clearly implying that Iran attacked the U.S. on 9/11. Such unmitigated and bellicose propaganda might fly on Fox News, but many members of the audience were having none of it, asking why they should trust Bush and the Neo-Cons after being lied to for six years.

"Why don't you shut up," barked Podhoretz, seemingly having abandoned his ceaseless regurgitation of warmongering rhetoric and finally losing his temper.

Several members of the audience were kicked out of the store by cops but as Podhoretz left he was heckled again as protesters chanted "No Iran war," before ducking into a vehicle and scurrying away.
: Why Americans Can't Wake Up!!! A MUST SEE!!!
: [Ht]LOx October 24, 2007, 06:11:02 AM
A Soviet born, KGB trained subverter tells about the four stages of communist takeovers. cica. 1985

America: Freedom to Fascism - Director's Authorized Version

Good Movie By Aaron Russo Check It Out


: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD October 24, 2007, 05:10:58 PM
This White House has lost its fucking mind,I swear they spew more stupid shit every day, now Iran is the biggest threat in the world to the USA's security.

I guess china perfecting shooting down our satellites as a first strike in any fight with us is small potatoes

these assholes are more worried about driving up the price of oil than they give a shit about if this country is actually safe.

then again maybe this is the big reason

that is a lot of money for corporations that thought the Cold War being over was going to fuck up their stock price and profits,I guess its better for business than the "Peace Dividend" that was all over the news back in the early 90's.

Last week we had Texas sherrif  deputies and DEA/Border Patrol fighting Mexican military vehs on the Rio grande river when they were caught running drugs across the river in Military Humvees,the mexicans actually set one of the humvees on fire when it got stuck in the middle of the river.

its nice to see our "War on Drugs"money that we sent to Mexico is being well used.

we sure don't need a fence on the border
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy October 24, 2007, 06:08:14 PM

What happens when you borrow more money against your house than you have in equity ?

If you can't keep up with the payments , they can forclose, and then they own your house don't they ...

With the depleted value of the US Dollar (the means by which we would pay back any debt), how are we going to pay? 

This administration has basically mortgaged the country with no idea, or plan on how they will pay it back...

All for a war in Iraq that they had no plan, or idea how to win in the end..

So yeah, our assets will continue to be bought up by foreign investors, who will then have the power to influence our elected officials (more than they already do).. 
The real war is on the dollar, and the financial stability of the USA ..

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD October 24, 2007, 06:11:05 PM
Boxy you almost got it right, the war is on us, our rights and our future,this president has sold us out plain and simple.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy October 25, 2007, 05:12:45 PM
Agree Sarge,

       It is sometimes hard to discern if money is a weapon, or the target. With the consolidation of wealth that is taking place, and the incredible difficulty most people have making their bills and all . Bush keeps shooting down the health plans because too many middle income kids would get coverage, but he continues to spend millions and billions on his "holy war" . He doesn't want to ease the strain people and companies actually face paying for health care because it is part of that consolidation of wealth . I pay a mortgage payment every month for my health insurance and I still have to lay our all the Co Pays and 50% of all prescriptions . I spend upwards of 15-20% of my income on medical bills and we are HEALTHY !

The thing is, I think Bush doesn't realizes what  puppet he is, and the road he is actually taking the country down.


you see how people respond to Lox and others that try to wake people up, and at least "earn" our citezenship by trying to be informed, invloved, and trying to raise our voices so our questions are heard and answered . Too many stuck up, consumer crazed wannabee A holes in this country to ever get anything done right..

I keep talking to my wife about moving to Canada !! (I knew Mad would like that part)
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD October 26, 2007, 05:11:28 PM
From the Govt. agency that brought you the great response to Katrina

they had FEMA employees pretend to be reporters during a fake news conference about the California fires, these assholes just don't know when to give up.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: nadir October 26, 2007, 08:52:15 PM
Can't wait to spend you money if I go overseas.   I may sit for days with out anything to do but get paid  for 12 hours a day and at 170%.   True story and it is a drop in the bucket.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy October 26, 2007, 11:11:29 PM
From the Govt. agency that brought you the great response to Katrina

they had FEMA employees pretend to be reporters during a fake news conference about the California fires, these assholes just don't know when to give up.

I hope people actually read this link ...

If this doesnt impliccate the press/media as bogus, and reveal our govt. as we know it to be a dog and pony act, then people are just plain ignorant ..
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD October 27, 2007, 12:59:48 AM
Its all over the news,I think CNN is even talking about it.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: nadir October 27, 2007, 09:53:38 AM
In the "STFU or get fired" category.  If you are in the Foreign Service, they are going to force you to go to Iraq for a year or face the spectre of getting canned.
: [Ht]LOx October 28, 2007, 10:01:47 PM

For the New World Order, a world government is just the beginning. Once in place they can engage their plan to exterminate 80% of the world's population, while enabling the "elites" to live forever with the aid of advanced technology. For the first time, crusading filmmaker ALEX JONES reveals their secret plan for humanity's extermination: Operation ENDGAME.

Jones chronicles the history of the global elite's bloody rise to power and reveals how they have funded dictators and financed the bloodiest wars—creating order out of chaos to pave the way for the first true world empire.


: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 October 29, 2007, 11:04:13 AM
Lox, you need to stop falling asleep with old Twilight Zone episodes on the TV. They are rotting your brain while you sleep.

You are pulling a move like some of those PETA nuts. You have a few good ideas but then get a really crazy idea and that undermines all the legit stuff.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD October 29, 2007, 11:37:03 AM
Well the Global warming crowd fucked up another prediction,they predicted a record season for hurricanes and they got one part right, it wa sort of a record,it was one of the most inactive seasons in the last thirty years,these idiots can't predict what is going to happen next week and we are supposed to listen to predictions for the next fifty years?

Here is the link

I have saved a whole file in my favorites of articles by real experts that tear global warming/man made effect apart,its has been warming up for the last 14k years since the last ice age ended then you add in the fact that 99% of every animal species that has lived on the earth has gone extinct but lets all cry for baby polar bears and throw the real facts out the window,it keeps the body count in Iraq off the front page.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 October 29, 2007, 12:31:40 PM
Sometimes these panic predictions become "fact" in our society. Here is a quiz we took in my enviromental engineering class. Looking at the results of our class and past classes, the masses have been brainwashed. Like global warming panic predictions, it can produce positive change, but it is crap. Answer the following true or false.

1) The world's garbage production is becoming pandemic and without change garbage dumps will become a big problem in the future. It may become a problem on where to place garbage dumps.

2) It is a good thing that we stopped putting styrofoam in the land fills because it was becomming a real problem because it doesn't biodegrade.

3) Seperating grass out of the land fills wasn't very productive because it biodegrades very easily.

4) Recycling is the only way to help landfills. Without recycling, we wouldn't have enough resources.

1) False. We produce less garbage and store it better than the past. Rember garbage removal is a business. The companies want a land fill close enough so the dump trips are short but out of town enough so it isn't a public mennace. Also, 100 years ago we just threw our trash in the rivers or every house or 4 houses had their own land fill. Now, communities share land fills. Also, with recycling a lot of good stuff gets recycled if it is profitable. If we were able to take the next 100 years of garbage producted based on current production and including population growth and put it in one location on the globe, it wouldn't take up a spot as big as Chicago IL. Also, cemetaries and golf cources take up more land than dumps.

2) False. First of all, styrofoam was never a major percent of garbage. Newspapers and baby diapers take up a much larger percent of landfills. Also, nothing below about 10 feet really biodegrades anyway. Takeing  core samples of something that was dumped in the 50's, there is little decay. The reason is that there is no oxygen down that far so bacteria can't biodegrade anything. There are still whole chunks of meat like hotdogs that are completly intack.

3) False. It is good to take out the grass. Seperated and turned in compost it takes up a lot less space and makes a spot be able to be used for a lot longer.

4) False. Rember recycling is a business. If something can be made from virgin materials cheaper that is the way it is going to be made. Some of these green products are more expensive and more of a marketing tool. Some things like plastics are just seperated and stored in their own land fill spot. This way if that ever becomes a profitable recycling business there is a ready seperated supply. The biggest recycling company in Milwaukee WI uses bins made out of virgin plastic instead of recycled plastic because of cost. Talk about ironic.
: The mystery of the missing $2.9 trillion
: [Ht]LOx October 30, 2007, 01:19:06 AM
David R. Francis
CS Monitor
Monday October 29, 2007

Like most people, economists love a mystery – especially if it involves not a missing person but a missing $2.9 trillion in United States debt.

That's $2.9 with 11 zeros after it.

Some words of explanation: Every quarter the Department of Commerce comes up with the US "International Investment Position." At the end of 2006, for instance, the US had a net negative position – by this measurement of international assets and liabilities – of $2.6 trillion. In other words, the country is by far the world's biggest debtor nation.

A quarter century ago, the US was the world's largest creditor nation.

The economists at Commerce count American-owned private assets in foreign nations (plants, equipment, retail outfits, property, corporate stocks and bonds, etc.), US official international reserves (gold, special drawing rights, foreign currencies), and other US assets abroad. The measurements get complicated. Then these economists count what foreigners own of American assets, looking at the same list of assets.

Subtracting the value of American international assets from what foreigners own of American assets, they come up with how much Americans are in debt to other nations and their peoples.

But if you look at the current account of the US balance of payments, which measures primarily the balance of trade, and also flows of interest and dividends, foreign aid, and other international transfers, the US should be far deeper in hock – $2.9 trillion more over the years from 1990 through 2006 than the official $2.6 trillion. Every month, the Commerce Department has reported huge deficits in trade and the broader current account. These deficits have to be financed somehow by foreigners, and so the US should be piling up its international debts in grand style.

Last year the US international deficit was running at a level equivalent to 6.5 percent of our gross domestic product, the nation's total output of goods and services. In a sense, Americans were living 6.5 percent better than they would if they weren't putting on the national tab, in effect, so many toys, shirts, computers, etc.

"Why aren't we more indebted?" asks Barry Bosworth, an economist at the Brookings Institution in Washington.

One related mystery is that American investments in foreign nations earn a much higher rate of return than do the investments by foreigners in the US.

"Why?" asks Mr. Bosworth in a working paper written with Susan Collins of the Gerald Ford School of Public Policy in Ann Arbor, Mich., and a graduate student, Gabriel Chodorow-Reich.

One-third of the gap in the return on investments can be attributed to US corporations reporting "extra" income in low tax jurisdictions of their foreign affiliates, the National Bureau of Economic Research paper finds. For example, Microsoft sells its software in foreign countries from an affiliate in Ireland – after making some changes in the software, says Bosworth. There, it pays only a 10 percent tax on its corporate profits, rather than the 38 percent corporate rate in the US. Other US firms set up affiliates in such tax havens as Barbados, the Bahamas, and Bermuda.

US firms are "quite aggres­sive" in taking advantage of such tax havens, notes Bosworth. It probably means that these companies avoid billions of dollars in taxes that otherwise would go to Uncle Sam. It also distorts the official balance-of-payments figures. "The data are very bad," says Bosworth.

Another economist intrigued by this international investment mystery is Pierre-Olivier Gourinchas of the University of California, Berkeley. He finds that the reason the US is earning so much more on its foreign assets than it is paying on its foreign liabilities is partly because US investors often take more risk and thus get a higher return. The American money goes into foreign direct investment (plant and equipment, etc.) and into foreign stock, for example. Many foreigners, especially central banks, tend to be more cautious in choosing American investments. They buy ultrasafe US Treasuries or relatively safe bonds issued by US corporations, for instance. "The US offers nice, liquid, safe investments," says Professor Gourinchas. The risk of default can be low.

The US is an entrepôt, says Jane D'Arista, of the Financial Markets Center, Philomont, Va. That is, it takes in savings from the world at relatively low cost and invests some of that money abroad at a higher return.

There's more to the mystery than that, however. One advantage for the US is that the dollar is the primary currency used in international reserves of other nations and for invoicing international trade and investment, such as for oil and other commodities.

So when the dollar loses value, foreign holders of dollar assets lose on their dollar investments. Almost all US foreign liabilities are in dollars and about 70 percent of US foreign assets are in foreign currencies.In what Gourinchas calls an "eye-catching, back-of-the-envelope calculation," a 10 percent depreciation of the dollar represents a transfer of 5.3 percent of US GDP from the rest of the world to the US. America's GDP is currently $13.7 trillion, and the dollar is down 20.6 percent since 2002. So foreigners have – in effect – given the US about $1.3 trillion.

It's not really that simple, emphasizes Gourinchas. Nonetheless, the US has had a free lunch.
: Martin Sheen Questions Official 9/11 Story
: [Ht]LOx October 30, 2007, 01:30:52 AM

Follows in footsteps of son Charlie Sheen, highlights implausible collapse of WTC 7, asks why building was "rigged"

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Monday, October 29, 2007

Actor Martin Sheen questioned the official 9/11 story, as well as the collapse of Building 7 and Larry Silverstein's "pull it" comment during an anti-war march this past weekend in Los Angeles, saying that recent revelations about the attacks had caused him to have doubts.

Sheen was interviewed by We Are Change L.A. along with fellow actor Mark Ruffalo during an event hosted by the ANSWER Coalition at which around 20,000 people attended.

Emmy and Golden Globe Award-winning Martin Sheen, star of blockbuster films like Apocalypse Now and hit series The West Wing, follows in the footsteps of his son Charlie Sheen, who publicly spoke of his doubts about the official 9/11 story back in March 2006.

Martin Sheen said that he was dubious about questioning the official story until his son introduced him to new information about the anomalies of what happened on that day.

"Up until last year, I was very dubious," said Sheen, "I did not want to believe that my government could possibly be involved in such a thing, I could not live in a country that I thought could do that - that would be the ultimate betrayal," he added.

"However, there have been so many revelations that now I have my doubts, and chief among them is Building 7 - how did they rig that building so that it came down on the evening of the day?" said Sheen.

Sheen also questioned the comments of Larry Silverstein, the leaseholder of the WTC complex, who told a September 2002 documentary that the decision was made to "pull" Building 7, a demolition industry term for the deliberate implosion of a structure.

"How convenient," said Sheen, "When did they rig that building? That's the most interesting question and I have not received a satisfactory answer - nobody could give me an answer to how you rig the building - what a coincidence - two weeks prior and then bring it down on the day, that is the one thing that I have not got a sensible answer about from anyone," he concluded.

Sheen also stated that NORAD's failure to follow its standard operating procedure on 9/11 was "something to wonder about".

Watch the video below.

: CFR President: $200 Oil If War With Iran
: [Ht]LOx October 30, 2007, 07:18:44 AM
CFR President: $200 Oil If War With Iran

Rogue Government | October 28, 2007

Richard Haass the President of the Council on Foreign Relations and Bilderberg luminary was recently interviewed by Katie Couric on the situation with Iran. During the interview, Haass predicted that the crisis over Iran’s nuclear program could come to a head within the next few months and that war with Iran would result in oil prices rising to $200 a barrel. Haass also made it clear that sanctions would not be effective in changing Iran’s stance on their nuclear program and that there was a real possibility of a U.S. military strike on Iran using aircraft and cruise missiles. When Couric specifically asked Haass if he thought we would see a war with Iran, he responded.

“I don’t think we are talking about invasion, the U.S. doesn’t have ground troops. There could be a military strike using aircraft and cruise missiles, but if you ask me over the next year or two years can I imagine the U.S. and Iran moving to conflict? The short answer is yes. Is it definite? Obviously not, but is it a real possibility; for sure.”

Haass also mentioned in the interview that war with Iran would result in the oil price reaching $200 a barrel. This specific prediction from Haass is interesting considering reports from previous Bilderberg meetings that the global elite have been seeking an increase in oil prices as part of an effort to further squeeze the U.S. middle class.

A $200 oil price is certainly not out of the realm of possibility considering oil recently eclipsed the $90 a barrel mark. The rising oil price has thus far been primarily due to a combination of geopolitical tensions in the Middle East along with the falling value of the U.S. Dollar. In addition, the Federal Reserve is widely expected to cut interest rates again which would send the price of oil even higher and the value of the U.S. Dollar even lower. Any military attack on Iran would certainly send oil prices much higher with the possibility of other countries with close ties to Iran like Venezuela cutting off oil sales in retaliation.


It is clear that the global elite are seriously considering military action against Iran as part of their goal to further their agenda for one world government. The major media networks have been out in full force spreading all sorts of propaganda in an effort to convince the masses that we need an invasion of Iran. The propaganda fails to mention that any invasion of Iran could have a devastating effect on the U.S. economy with the potential of skyrocketing gasoline prices. Hopefully, they’ll come to their senses and put a halt to any plans for a military strike against Iran. With countries like Pakistan and North Korea holding a nuclear arsenal, it doesn’t make any logical sense to go after a country like Iran that doesn’t even have a nuclear weapon. The only rationale for an invasion of Iran is raw imperialism, and unfortunately that’s what we are seeing unfold.

News Links
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 October 30, 2007, 10:11:18 AM
The quiet war has begun with silent weapons
And the new slavery is to keep the people
Poor and stupid, "Novus Ordo Seclorus"

How can there be any logic in biological war?
We all know this is wrong, but the New World Order's
Beating down the door, oh something needs to be done

There was a King who had a dream with no idea
What it could mean and nobody could interpret
Of seven empires falling, the wolf is at the door
As predicted years ago, that that was, that is, that is no more

The word predicts the future and tells the truth about the past
Of how the world leaders are waiting to usher in the
Eighth False King to the throne, Washington is Next!

Disengage their minds, sabotage their health
Promote sex, and war, and violence in the kindergartens
Blame the parents and teachers; it's their fault, "Annuit Coeptis"
Attack the church dynamic, attack the family
Keep the public undisciplined till nothing left is sacred and
The "have-nots" get hooked and have to go to the "haves" just to cop a fix

I am a King who had a dream with no idea
What it could mean and nobody could interpret
Of seven empires falling, the wolf is at my door
As predicted years ago, that that was, that is, that is no more

Washington, you're next!
: White House says Bush plans administrative orders to govern, avoiding Congress
: [Ht]LOx November 01, 2007, 05:32:16 AM
 John Byrne
Raw Story
Wednesday October 31, 2007

It's not quite signing statements, where President George W. Bush used legal means to "interpret" laws, allowing him to avoid Congressional directives, but the White House is now planning to implement as much new policy "as it can" by administrative order "after concluding that President Bush cannot do much business with the Democratic leadership."

According to officials who spoke to the Washington Post, Bush blames Democrats for the holdup of Judge Michael Muskasey's nomination as attorney general, the failure to pass budget bills and an inability to reach compromise on child healthcare.

Bush vetoed the State Children's Health Insurance Program, or SCHIP, saying Democrats hadn't found a way to offset spending for the expansion of the program. Democrats have reservations about Mukasey because he has refused to denounce the president's policy on waterboarding.

"White House aides say the only way Bush seems to be able to influence the process is by vetoing legislation or by issuing administrative orders, as he has in recent weeks on veterans' health care, air-traffic congestion, protecting endangered fish and immigration," the Post authors write. "They say they expect Bush to issue more of such orders in the next several months, even as he speaks out on the need to limit spending and resist any tax increases."

House Democrats disagree with Bush's assessments.

The article gave little information about Bush's plans for administrative orders, focusing mostly on Congressional infighting and legislative disagreements between the White House and Congress.

On Wednesday, a diarist at the liberal blog Daily Kos noted that administrative orders differ from executive orders and directives, citing a University of Tulsa research document on executive power.

"Administrative Orders include numbered documents called determinations, and notices or memorandum designated by date," the document states. "These orders often concern foreign policy decisions but may also include management decisions made by the President that concern Executive Departments."

Recent examples of such documents, as listed by the National Archives, include "Continuation of the National Emergency With Respect to Significant Narcotics Traffickers Centered in Colombia," "Memorandum on Waiver and Certification of Statutory Provisions Regarding the Palestine Liberation Organization Office," and "Memorandum on Waiver of Limitation on Obligation and Expenditure of $1,051.6 Million in Fiscal Year 2007 Economic Support Funds for Iraq."

"Given Bush’s dubious track record over the past seven-years, I get the distinct and ominous feeling this has more to do with Congress’ hesitation to green light a preemptive attack on Iran than it does with the amount of work Congress is doing overall," the Kos diarist remarks.

Now It Is Starting :'(
: Governor Schwarzenegger Backs Aerial Biochemical Spraying That Harms Children
: [Ht]LOx November 01, 2007, 05:39:08 AM
 Rami Nagel
News Target
Wednesday October 31, 2007

(NewsTarget) On September 9th, 2007 several planes hired by the State of California Food and Agricultural Department (CDFA) flying at an altitude of approximately 500ft sprayed the untested biochemical, CheckMate®OLR-F, on over 30,000 citizens in Monterey and other surrounding cities in California. This occurred without the permission of the citizens. The spraying continued for three nights from approximately 8pm to 5am. About 1,500 pounds of biochemical were dumped on the cities. Many citizens did not even know what was happening when the planes were buzzing overhead.

An 11 month old child nearly died from breathing difficulties. A six year old child developed asthma as a result of the aerial spraying. Over one hundred people signed affidavits stating that they got sick from the spraying. Hundreds of people had symptoms like; shortness of breath, headaches, dizziness, burning lungs, nausea, and muscle aches.

The excuse for aerial spraying is not a deadly disease carrying mosquito, but a moth whose larva may eat some leaves of some plants; called the Light Brown Apple Moth (LBAM). The CDFA considers the moth an invasive species since it is from Australia. Yet, evidence suggests that the moth has been in California for many years, living peacefully. In response to the moth, the CDFA set up relatively harmless sticky traps, which have captured nearly every Light Brown Apple Moth in the Northern California region.

Governor Schwarzenegger is a strong supporter of the declared emergency; the need to spray untested biochemicals on humans to stop the LBAM from destroying crops.

This aerial spraying violates several state, federal and international laws. It violates the right to personal safety given by the California State Constitution, the very document that creates the California government. It violates the Americans with Disabilities Act, which protects people with chemical sensitivities and other disabilities from discrimination. It violates the Federal constitutional right to personal liberty. It violates the EPA's laws against spraying pesticides on people. It violates human rights laws that say that human experimentation without consent is unethical and immoral. It violates criminal laws that claim it is a crime to poison children, or anyone else. It violates pollution laws to spray a toxic substance over plants, animals, and waterways. It violates laws against organized crime and it violates the very tenants of our democracy; a system of government designed to represent the people, not to poison the people to represent private agri-business interests.

Recently, in a series of rapid fire events, the CDFA declared a state of emergency relating to the LBAM claiming that the moths are about to destroy a huge portion of the state's agricultural crops. The claim is that the LBAM will cause hundreds of millions of dollars of crop damage. Due to this supposed “emergency,” the CDFA claims it must immediately spray an untested biochemical to eliminate this threat as soon as possible despite the reported harms. Mind you, these moth's only travel within a 20-30 yard diameter of their birth place during their entire life.

The state of emergency is a false declaration because the CDFA cannot produce any meaningful evidence that the LBAM can or would destroy crops and the sticky traps are effective at containing the moths. In Hawaii, the LBAM has been a help to the ecosystem by destroying invasive species and there's no evidence of crop harm for the last 100 years.

The only emergency seems to be that the State of California, under Governor Schwarzenegger's helm, has an urgent need to spray as many humans; men, women, children, pregnant women, people with allergies, the elderly, and the sick, with chemicals. There is no sensible explanation as to why they want to do this, nor is there any explanation as to why they think that spraying pesticides on people is a good thing to do.

Spraying chemicals, safe or not safe, on humans against their will is illegal. It is a crime! The Nuremberg Code, established after the horrors of World War II, prohibits human experimentation without the consent of the person who is being experimented upon.

The state does not care about the over 200 health complaints, nor the laws they are violating, but rather cares about the commercial agricultural business. Trade partners with the US may not accept shipments of plants or produce that may have the LBAM. The CDFA has given various figures of the estimated crop damage that the LBAM will cause. Their estimates range from 100 million to 2.7 billion dollars. Now, these estimates are not based on any scientific survey but rather on their opinion and fears.

Even if the harmless moth could cause such damage, it is a dangerous precedent to place the health and safety of United States citizens, especially infants and children, secondary to money. So the CDFA and Governor Schwarzenegger has determined that 100 million dollars of possible damage gives them justification to poison children with chemicals. In this case, economic factors have been given priority over liberty and human value.

And the question I have been asking myself is - who is going to protect the children who will be sprayed?

So what chemicals make up Checkmate OLR-F and LBAM-F Products?

This has been the technical question many people have been asking. The specific details of the chemicals seem to be of less importance than the simple fact that these are chemicals. Synthetic chemicals do not have a place on our bodies without our permission. And they do not have a place in our children's bodies who have a much lower tolerance to environmental toxins!

My understanding is that approximately 15-20% of the main biochemical is made up of a synthetically derived moth pheromone. This pheromone supposedly confuses the moths and disrupts their mating cycles. I am unaware of any scientific evidence to prove that the pheromone is effective at controlling the LBAM population. I supposed the CDFA's plan is to see how it works after a year or more of spraying. This is essentially biochemical testing. And the problem is that they are doing it on the public on a large scale, against the people's will. Due to the declaration of an emergency, the CDFA allow themselves to bypass the normal environmental review process meant to examine such questions.

The concern with the Checkmate chemicals is not so much about the pheromone, but rather the pheromone distribution system. The pheromone is encapsulated in a micro-capsule (like a miniature pill) which the CDFA brags is biodegradable. What they do not tell you is that the capsule needs to dry out to biodegrade. In water environments (like your body), the pheromone stays encapsulated. The micro-capsule takes approximately 30 days to degrade. The full degradation occurring within 30 days is unlikely because Monterey and Santa Cruz Counties experience frequent rain and dampness from the Pacific Ocean. Thus, the people in the areas that are sprayed will be inhaling and touching miniature pills. Once in their bodies, the capsule will likely slowly degrade causing moth pheromone to be released directly into people's bloodstream.

The micro-capsule is made out of what are falsely called “inert” ingredients. Again, the EPA brags that these “inert” ingredients are mostly ionized water. However, they forget to tell you that there are also two known dangerous toxic substances in the inerts - tricaprylyl methyl ammonium chloride (TMAC) and polymethylene polyphenyl isocyanate (PPI).

The breathing problems and asthma-like conditions are known side effects of PPI. So how is the state legally able to spray it on people?

The way they illegally avoid the law and lie to people, so that people will be lulled into a stupor, is by saying that PPI, along with other ingredients, are actually not in the pesticide. Well, this is about 5% true and 95% a lie. Say you are baking a cake; you use flour, sugar, some eggs and other ingredients, and you bake it. One could argue that, in the final cake product, there is no flour but rather a new chemical compound called cake. In the same way, when PPI and other ingredients are processed, they meld and bind together and change their chemical form. They no longer resemble exactly their original substances, just like cake does not look much like the flour it was made of. When you examine the final biochemical, you will see no PPI but rather some new toxic substance.

Since there is no independently verifiable evidence that these new chemical compounds are toxic or not, other than 117 signed affidavits of people who got sick, and since there is a so-called “emergency”, no thorough testing needs to be done. It is a devious way to avoid the law. The end result is that we must “trust” the EPA to say the chemicals are safe. It's hard to trust the EPA because, for example, with water fluoridation the entire employee's union at the EPA came out to say that water fluoridation is dangerous and harmful while the official position of the EPA is that water fluoridation is a good thing. It also becomes more difficult to win a court case against the aerial spraying when you cannot get any evidence that the chemicals are dangerous because you are not allowed to independently verify anything that the EPA alleges.

Strangely, the CDFA came out with precautions for this “non-toxic” chemical. Recommendations such as; to close all your windows during the spray, to stay inside, to hose everything off in the morning before you touch it, and to not touch anything that is covered with the chemical residue (anything outside) were encouraged. These warnings are good ideas since the micro-capsule can easily be inhaled, stays stuck on things, or remains in the air. I recently checked the CDFA website looking to quote this document and they had removed all warnings about the chemical, claiming now that it is totally safe. Perhaps this was spurred by the CDFA Secretary of Agriculture A.G. Kawamura's concern that citizens would waste too much water following the CDFA's instructions to wash the chemical off of things before touching them. It is eerie how A.G. Kawamura is concerned about saving water and our environment, but is totally oblivious to the fact that hundreds of people have been poisoned due to his aerial spraying efforts.

Another concern is the Checkmate OLR-F and LBAM-F warning label from the manufacturer:

“Keep Out of Reach of Children"

"Caution: Harmful if absorbed through the skin. Causes moderate eye irritation. Avoid contact with skin, eyes, or clothing. Harmful if inhaled. Avoid breathing vapor or spray mist.” The criminals at the CDFA claim we should not worry about this warning label. According to the CDFA's toxicity theory, since the biochemical is going to be inhaled and touched in smaller doses, this warning is no longer necessary as it refers only to those who handle the chemicals."

Due to this premise, the CDFA insists that the 117 documented complaints of illnesses are psychosomatic and are not caused by the Checkmate. They continue to spray without thoroughly investigating these health claims. Infants cannot get psychosomatic illnesses because they are too young to make things up like that. The CDFA are hypocrites because when a doctor reports that someone is sick to the CDFA, and if that person had recently ingested certified raw milk, they automatically shut down the milk business even without evidence that the milk caused the illness. (The milk, in this case, is never the source of illness because the cows are healthy.) On one hand, they overly penalize raw milk producers for things that might cause illness and on the other hand they ignore cases which definitely cause illness by their own hands.

Spraying chemicals on people is a crime, safe or not.

This is an outrage and this is sickening.

It used to be easy to turn a blind eye to government corruption because we could avoid it. You can avoid vaccinations by claiming an exemption. You can avoid polluted soaps and shampoos by buying natural ones, and you can avoid pesticide ridden foods by choosing organic. (In case you are wondering, strawberries and other produce sprayed with Checkmate will still be certified organic by the State, so you won't know you are eating pesticide ridden produce.) But the citizens of Monterey, Santa Cruz, Seaside, Los Lomas and other communities consisting of over 100,000 people who are scheduled to be spray bombed, some beginning today for up to six nights in a row, do not have the choice. Their personal boundaries have been violently violated by the CDFA.

Now, you cannot turn a blind eye anymore to what the government does. We need to acknowledge that these things are wrong, whether we can avoid them or not. When we do not stand up against evil, we affirm it. When we say what is happening is smart, we affirm that the evil doer is good because we do nothing to stop them.

I encourage you, in every way possible, to not sit back here. When you see someone doing wrong, whether it is a relative, a neighbor, or the local government, speak up. We need to stop this juggernaut. It is truly a terrifying experience because I have a pregnant partner and a young child and I have to move away from here to avoid being sprayed, to avoid being force vaccinated with synthetic moth hormone. The last bastion of hope is that the Santa Cruz City Council narrowly voted to sue the criminals doing this. It is unclear whether their lawsuit will be effective.


The name for the biochemical Checkmate has two meanings. First, to check (stop) mating. Although there is no reliable evidence that it will check mating, for all we know, it could cause the moths to mutate and mate more. The second meaning of checkmate is a position in the game of Chess. This is a position when you have your opponent trapped no matter what move they do. They cannot win so they must resign and lose the game. Ironically, it is not the moths who are in the position of checkmate, but rather the citizens of Monterey, Marina, Pacific Grove, Sand City and Seaside (cities near Carmel and the famous Pebble Beach Golf course). These citizens must literally run, and escape, for the sake of their children from their own homes because a toxic cloud of government corruption is about to rain down upon them. It is these citizens who are in the position of checkmate. The difference here is that losing can mean a chronic disease, illness, and perhaps worse.

What you can do is call your state and federal representatives and encourage them to push through laws that prohibit aerial spraying. Encourage California State Senators and Federal Representatives to engage in a criminal investigation because poisoning people, children, and the elderly is a crime. Just because the people engaged in this work for the government, it doesn't make them immune to our laws. Support, and the City of Santa Cruz, to fight back.

Tell everyone!

Spread this news. Let's tell the whole world the truth about civil rights in the good ole' US of A.

If enough people know, this cause will be greatly advanced. Also, process your feelings about this, the anger, the rage, the terror, and the hatred it brings up. Feel how you want to protect those in the aerial spray path, that inner voice speaking within you saying, “NO! this is wrong, it must stop".

May the criminals face the real consequences of their crimes and be brought to justice. And may the people of Northern California be protected from untested synthetic chemicals forced upon them.

News Link
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD November 02, 2007, 11:07:46 AM
Its comical that OPEC now wants to crank up oil production with the price of a barrel of oil pushing 100 dollars,they let oil become a commodity traded on the futures market and thats what drives up the price like it is then they discover they can magically pump more oil.

welcome to the Bush/Cheney secret energy plan.I swear to god this Iraq shit was done just to drive up the price of oil,that and pump money back into corps that were big time defense contractors during the cold war.

this crap along with the plummetting dollar will fuck us all up in the end.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 November 03, 2007, 09:46:43 AM
Its comical that OPEC now wants to crank up oil production with the price of a barrel of oil pushing 100 dollars,they let oil become a commodity traded on the futures market and thats what drives up the price like it is then they discover they can magically pump more oil.

welcome to the Bush/Cheney secret energy plan.I swear to god this Iraq shit was done just to drive up the price of oil,that and pump money back into corps that were big time defense contractors during the cold war.

this crap along with the plummetting dollar will fuck us all up in the end.

Not to mention Dick Cheny is making a fortune with his military food vending service.
It is like the 60s, we are all out of 25 cent gas but we got plenty of this 50 cent gas.
Now the last 5 years, we are all out of that $1 a gallon gas but we got plenty of this $3 a gallon gas.

This is a significant economy fucking raise. If they would just raise it 3% a year, they would still have the prices they want without a big economy fuck.
Not to mention there hasn's been a refinary built since the 80s because of the fucking enviromentalists. That is also a major supply bottleneck causing high prices.
Some of those small countries can handle $4/gallon prices. The US economy can't because of our size, auto types, and economy's transport style.
: No evidence of Iranian nuclear-weapons program, experts say
: [Ht]LOx November 05, 2007, 09:39:37 AM
Miami Herald
Monday November 5, 2007

 WASHINGTON -- Despite President Bush's claims that Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons that could trigger ''World War III,'' experts in and out of government say there's no conclusive evidence that Tehran has an active nuclear-weapons program.

Even his own administration appears divided about the immediacy of the threat. While Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney speak of an Iranian weapons program as a fact, Bush's point man on Iran, Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns, has attempted to ratchet down the rhetoric.

''Iran is seeking a nuclear capability . . . that some people fear might lead to a nuclear-weapons capability,'' Burns said in an interview Oct. 25 on PBS.

''I don't think that anyone right today thinks they're working on a bomb,'' said another U.S. official, who requested anonymity because of the issue's sensitivity.

Outside experts say the operative words are ''right today.'' They say Iran may have been actively seeking to create a nuclear-weapons capacity in the past and still could break out of its current uranium-enrichment program and start a weapons program. They, too, lack definitive proof but cite a great deal of circumstantial evidence.

Bush's rhetoric seems hyperbolic compared with the measured statements by his senior aides and outside experts.

''I've told people that if you're interested in avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested in preventing them [Iran] from having the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon,'' he said Oct. 17 at a news conference.

''Our country, and the entire international community, cannot stand by as a terror-supporting state fulfills its grandest ambitions,'' Cheney warned on Oct 23. ``We will not allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon.''

News Link

: Olbermann: Does Bush want to remake US into ‘invisible fascist state’?
: [Ht]LOx November 07, 2007, 10:54:06 AM
: Take Action to Impeach Cheney for 9/11 Crimes!
: [Ht]LOx November 08, 2007, 03:19:42 AM
This just in:

"Yesterday in a stunning development, a bipartisan majority of Congress rejected the attempt to kill the privileged resolution
brought by Dennis Kucinich to impeach Vice President Cheney, for his unprecedented constitutional high crimes. Instead the bill was sent to the House Judiciary Committee, which is exactly where we want it to build momentum. Now all we have to do is pressure them to follow through, and impeachment will be a reality."

You can take action for impeachment at:
H.Res 333 Action Page:
: The American empire is falling with the dollar
: [Ht]LOx November 08, 2007, 11:10:06 AM
Paul Craig Roberts
Online Journal
Thursday November 8, 2007

 The US dollar is still officially the world's reserve currency, but it cannot purchase the services of Brazilian super model Gisele Bundchen. Gisele required the $30 million she earned during the first half of this year to be paid in euros.

Gisele is not alone in her forecast of the dollar's fate. The First Post (UK) reports that Jim Rogers, a former partner of billionaire George Soros, is selling his home and all possessions in order to convert all his wealth into Chinese yuan.

Meanwhile, American economists continue to preach that offshoring is good for the US economy and that Bush's war spending is keeping the economy going. The practitioners of supply and demand have yet to figure out that the dollar's supply is sinking the dollar's price and along with it American power.

The macho super patriots who support the Bush regime still haven't caught on that US superpower status rests on the dollar being the reserve currency, not on a military unable to occupy Baghdad. If the dollar were not the world currency, the US would have to earn enough foreign currencies to pay for its 737 oversees bases, an impossibility considering America's $800 billion trade deficit.

When the dollar ceases to be the reserve currency, foreigners will cease to finance the US trade and budget deficits, and the American Empire along with its wars will disappear overnight. Perhaps Bush will be able to get a World Bank loan, or maybe one from the "Chavez bank," to bring the troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Foreign leaders, observing that offshoring and war are accelerating America's relative economic decline, no longer treat the US with the deference to which Washington is accustomed. Ecuador's president, Rafael Correa, recently refused Washington's demand to renew the lease on the Manta air base in Ecuador. He told Washington that the US could have a base in Ecuador if Ecuador could have a military base in the US.

When Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez addressed the UN, he crossed himself as he stood at the podium. Referring to President Bush, Chavez said, "Yesterday the devil came here, and it smells of sulfur still today." Bush, said Chavez, was standing "right here, talking as if he owned the world."

In his state of the nation message last year, Russian president Vladimir Putin said that Bush's blathering about democracy was nothing but a cloak for the pursuit of American self-interests at the expense of other peoples. "We are aware what is going on in the world. Comrade wolf knows whom to eat, and he eats without listening, and he's clearly not going to listen to anyone." In May 2007, Putin criticized the neocon regime in Washington for "disrespect for human life" and "claims to global exclusiveness, just as it was in the time of the Third Reich."

Even America's British allies regard President Bush as a threat to world peace and the second most dangerous man alive. Bush is edged out in polls by Osama bin Laden, but is regarded as more dangerous than Iran's demonized president and North Korea's Kim Jong-il.

President Bush has achieved his dismal world standing despite spending $1.6 billion of hard-pressed Americans' tax money on public relations between 2003 and 2006.

Clearly, America's leader and America's currency are poorly regarded. Is there a solution?

Perhaps the answer lies in those 737 overseas bases. If those bases were brought home and shared among the 50 states, each state would gain 15 new military bases.

Imagine what this would mean: The end of the housing slump. A reduction in the trade deficit. And the end of the war on terror.

Who would dare attack a country with 15 new military bases in every state in addition to the existing ones? Wherever a terrorist turned, he would find himself surrounded by soldiers.

All of the dollars currently spent abroad to support 737 overseas bases would be spent at home. Income for foreigners would become income for Americans, and the trade deficit would shrink.

The impact of the 737 military base payrolls on the US economy would end the housing crisis and bring back the 140,000 highly paid financial services jobs, the loss of which this year has cost the US $42 billion in consumer income. Foreclosures and bankruptcies would plummet.

If this isn't enough to turn the dollar around, President Bush's pledge not to appoint an attorney general if Michael Mukasey is not confirmed offers more promise. If the Democrats will defeat Mukasey's nomination, there are other superfluous cabinet departments that can be closed down in addition to the US Department of Torture and Indefinite Detention.

The American empire is being unwound on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan. The year is two months from being over, but already in 2007, despite the touted "surge," deaths of US soldiers are the highest of any year of the war.

The Taliban are the ones who are surging. They have taken control of a third district in Western Afghanistan. Turkey and the Kurds are on the verge of turning northern Iraq into a new war zone, another demonstration of American impotence.

Bush's wars have endangered America's puppet regimes. Bush's Pakistani puppet, Musharraf, is fighting for his life. By resorting to "emergency rule" and oppressive measures, Musharraf has intensified his opposition. When Musharraf falls, thanks to Bush, the Islamists will have nukes.

American generals used to say that the wars Bush started in the Middle East would take 10 years to win. On Oct. 31, General John Abizaid, former commander of US forces in the Middle East, put paid to that optimistic forecast. Speaking at Carnegie Mellon University, Gen. Abizaid said it would be 50 years before US troops can leave the Middle East.

There is no possibility of the US remaining in the Middle East for a half century. The dollar and US power are already on their last legs, unbeknownst to Democratic leaders Pelosi and Reid who are preparing yet another blank check for Bush's latest request for $200 billion in supplementary war funding.

There isn't any money with which to fund Bush's lost war. It will have to be borrowed from China.

The Romans brought on their own demise, but it took them centuries. Bush has finished America in a mere seven years.

Even as Gisele throws off the dollar's hegemony, Brazil, Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, and Columbia are declaring independence from the IMF and World Bank, instruments of US financial hegemony, by creating their own development bank, thus bringing to an end US suzerainty over South America.

An empire that has lost its backyard is finished.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD November 08, 2007, 11:31:14 AM
After reading that and realizing that the next idiot elected president won't change one thing listed in that article makes you really wonder what the fuck is going to happen.

that shit about pakistan should scare the hell out of anyone with a brain,the idea that the ppl we are fighting in afganistan having nukes is a major fuck up to say the least.

now where is everyone to tell Lox he is crazy about this post?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare November 08, 2007, 01:32:43 PM
it is a scary thing, which is why the administration does what it can to prop up their government to keep it from falling to a bunch of islamic fundamentalist wackos.  where the article screws up tho is that it says it's bush's fault....    sorry but the folks over in Paki land have been working on their nuke program since the early-mid 1970s and their first successful test was a decade before GW even showed up at the White House.

if anything it illustrates why our country is so hellbent on keeping other nations from developing that power.  with nearly a billion muslims worldwide and fundamentalism eating away at the system it's not in our (or anyones) best interest to allow the proliferation of nukes.

the articles reasoning of making us "safer" by bringing all the military bases back home is flawed.  in the short term yes it will create a localized housing and service oriented job boom.  yes this will improve economy on a local scale, but DOES NOT move us away from being a CONSUMER society that relies on cheap ass imports.  it doesn't matter tho, within a decade i guarantee congress will repeat what they did back in the 80's and 90's tho...  "we don't need all these troops and bases, lets start closing shit down to divert that money to social programs so crack whores can keep squirting out babies!"  lets not forget that the whole premise of terrorist attacks is to have an attack or strike on a target to cause panic, fear, and chaos, all without having to take on a military or police force.  this means having a ton of soldiers sitting on US soil is not the deterrent effect that the article claims it would be.  lets also not forget this little thing called the Posse Comitatus Act dating back to 1878 that specifically forbids the military from taking part in law enforcement actions on non-federal (military/fed government owned) property which effectively nullifies them as a peace officer entity designed to fight crime/terrorism on US soil...

...of course there are loopholes that have been inserted since it came about which allow for such a thing to happen in exigent circumstances that threaten life, property, government function etc. in cases of natural disaster, mass civil disturbance and so on.  but hey, that takes us a step in the direction Lox keeps ranting about with the police state, 80% pop reduction, NWO ect.  but hey, if all that far out shit is really true we can't have extra soldiers on our soil now can we?

you wanna fix things in this country?  freakin turn the priority back onto education and getting kids smart, NOT continually lowering the bar every time we get beat by a bunch of Swedes and squinteyed kids in asia in standardized academic tests.  get fuckers to start voting.  get out of debt and stop trying to live beyond the limits of your paycheck.  knock it off with all these horseshit social programs that essentially enable people to be lazy asses that develop diabetes from being fat and never working and all these drug addicts and petty criminals to continually revolve in and out the prison doors.  knock it off with all the bullshit legislation that restricts honest Americans when you cannot even enforce the laws you already have on the people breaking the rules.  put a system in place to start nailing frivolous law suits, insurance fraud, and business fraud in the ass.  start making products of high quality at decent prices that people overseas will actually want to buy.  and finally go on the offensive hardcore Mossad style.  there's a reason those guys are feared in the middle east and it's not because they rely on billion dollar satellites and high tech gadgets or have the biggest, baddest, best equipped army in the world.  it's 'cause they do it the old fashion way...   on the ground, real time intel gathering, that you can't get from some lenses and microchips floating in space, and 'cause they aren't afraid to knock a few skulls and break the rules to take out legit threats.  we've become weak from our reliance on technology, our own arrogance, and because we've effectively hamstrung ourselves with all this political correctness bullshit and concern with following rules that our enemies obviously don't give a damn about.

you wanna see what happens if you don't?  just watch the United Kingdom, they aren't that far ahead of us on the ride from what i've been reading.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy November 08, 2007, 06:10:12 PM
Sorry but you sound like Cheney telling the American public to learn how to save money ..
Meanwhile not a penny comes out of his pocket for the thousand dollar meals him and his cronies eat everyday, or the millions they waste on security to protect their own lame asses while they give our kids in the military sub standard equipment and send them into winless situations.While profiting from the increase in oil and all the weapons they sell ..

Get out and vote ? LMAO did you not see how Bush won his first term ? You think any more votes would have mattered ? Just more hanging chads..

Social programs didn't create the poverty that they are supposed to address.. I am not saying they help, but they are not the problem.

Imagine for a moment half the money spent on this stupid war being spent on social programs around the world, and you would see a better world .

I am not saying security isn't important, but making yourself the number 1 hated target in the world isnt a great plan either..

Short of a "revolution" we are being taken down a path we have very little control over.

or haven't you been watching..

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 09, 2007, 09:42:58 AM
fact is man "The New World Order" is real and they are steering this ship called america into a fucking cliff.
If people don't want to wake up then fuck em the stupid fucks don't even understand that it now takes 2 dollars to get 1 fucking euro.It is not fucking game they are not fucking playing with us maybe people will wake up when they are eating at fucking soup kitchen and at every store the owner has fucking shotgun on the counter.


VOTE RON PAUL <---feel comfortable becuz we have so many eyes on this voter fraud shit now

ohh yeah check this out
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 November 09, 2007, 10:17:05 AM
fact is man "The New World Order" is real and they are steering this ship called america into a fucking cliff.
If people don't want to wake up then fuck em the stupid fucks don't even understand that it now takes 2 dollars to get 1 fucking euro.It is not fucking game they are not fucking playing with us maybe people will wake up when they are eating at fucking soup kitchen and at every store the owner has fucking shotgun on the counter.


VOTE RON PAUL <---feel comfortable becuz we have so many eyes on this voter fraud shit now

ohh yeah check this out

It is real but will it happen? Well, Hitler tried and a few others. But people were blind. I think it more of a one world business takeover than goverment. Goverment is a secondary function since business has such a controll over them anyway. And, all politicains are businessmen too.

As far as the Euro, I went to Italy 5 years ago when it was a 1 to 1. And shit was still expensive. A strong Euro is their money trying to equalize with the new European economy. It will stabilize, it has only been 5 years. What is scarry is countries sharing money. Will they try to get America on board to stabilize our economy? Now, that is scarry.

Lox, I think people don't read a lot of your posts because they are just cut and paste. Hell, I can follow the links to prisonplanet, which is a little too right wing for my logic. But, summaries and what you think is good.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 09, 2007, 10:26:05 AM
lets also not forget this little thing called the Posse Comitatus Act dating back to 1878 that specifically forbids the military from taking part in law enforcement actions on non-federal (military/fed government owned) property which effectively nullifies them as a peace officer entity designed to fight crime/terrorism on US soil...

gimmie a fuck break hare that went out with katrina when they were taking peoples fucking guns that they own and shit how many police did you see on tv and how many troops did you see? any time the new world order wants to send troops rolling down ur street with tanks then ring ur bell and blow ur fucking head off  they will.

Public Law 109-364, or the "John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007" (H.R.5122) (2), which was signed by the commander in chief on October 17th, 2006, in a private Oval Office ceremony, allows the President to declare a "public emergency" and station troops anywhere in America and take control of state-based National Guard units without the consent of the governor or local authorities, in order to "suppress public disorder."

President Bush seized this unprecedented power on the very same day that he signed the equally odious Military Commissions Act of 2006. In a sense, the two laws complement one another. One allows for torture and detention abroad, while the other seeks to enforce acquiescence at home, preparing to order the military onto the streets of America. Remember, the term for putting an area under military law enforcement control is precise; the term is "martial law."

do some research hare!! posse comitaSHIT
News Links
(1) and See also, Congressional Research Service Report for Congress, "The Use of Federal Troops for Disaster Assistance:  Legal Issues," by Jennifer K. Elsea, Legislative Attorney, August 14, 2006


(3) Journal of Counterterrorism & Homeland Security International, "Recent Contract Awards", Summer 2006, Vol.12, No.2, pg.8; See also, Peter Dale Scott, "Homeland Security Contracts for Vast New Detention Camps," New American Media, January 31, 2006.

(4) "Technology Transfer from defense: Concealed Weapons Detection", National Institute of Justice Journal, No 229, August, 1995, pp.42-43.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 09, 2007, 11:09:43 AM
Lox, I think people don't read a lot of your posts because they are just cut and paste. Hell, I can follow the links to prisonplanet, which is a little too right wing for my logic. But, summaries and what you think is good.

fact is maroon there is no right or left wing they are all the same fucked up bird
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 November 09, 2007, 12:44:31 PM
Lox, I think people don't read a lot of your posts because they are just cut and paste. Hell, I can follow the links to prisonplanet, which is a little too right wing for my logic. But, summaries and what you think is good.

fact is maroon there is no right or left wing they are all the same fucked up bird

Republican - I got a shitty idea.
Democrat - And, I can make it worse.

911 has been used as a tool to remove morefreedoms which has been slowly happening for a long time.
The businesses are trying to controll energy as a mass power now. Gasoline, natural gas, water (which will be the next big one), and electric is comming soon.
: Weather Channel Founder-Global Warming ‘Greatest Scam in History
: [Ht]LOx November 09, 2007, 01:27:17 PM

If the founder of The Weather Channel spoke out strongly against the manmade global warming myth, might media members notice?

We're going to find out the answer to that question soon, for John Coleman wrote an article published at ICECAP Wednesday that should certainly garner attention from press members -- assuming journalism hasn't been completely replaced by propagandist activism, that is.

Coleman marvelously began:

It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create in [sic] allusion of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the "research" to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus.

Environmental extremists, notable politicians among them, then teamed up with movie, media and other liberal, environmentalist journalists to create this wild "scientific" scenario of the civilization threatening environmental consequences from Global Warming unless we adhere to their radical agenda. Now their ridiculous manipulated science has been accepted as fact and become a cornerstone issue for CNN, CBS, NBC, the Democratic Political Party, the Governor of California, school teachers and, in many cases, well informed but very gullible environmental conscientious citizens. Only one reporter at ABC has been allowed to counter the Global Warming frenzy with one 15 minutes documentary segment.

I have read dozens of scientific papers. I have talked with numerous scientists. I have studied. I have thought about it. I know I am correct. There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril. I am incensed by the incredible media glamour, the politically correct silliness and rude dismissal of counter arguments by the high priest of Global Warming.

News Link

same article but i wanted to put up 4 different links for the none believers.


ohh and i don't cut and paste i copy and paste the whole article and i provide links so SUP ;D

Also Im Looking For You Guys Opinion On EndGame
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD November 09, 2007, 03:02:17 PM
I have read so many articles and seen so many discovery channel/Nat geo/learning channel shows that show so mauch data that refutes the whole global warming religion and it has become a religion because the the whole argument is being driven by belief not science.

the planet is getting warmer, it has been for the last 14 thousand years and will continue until the next ice age starts.

I watched a show on solar activity a couple of nites ago where they go into detail about how ultraviolet lite for the sun would excite particles in the atmosphere and cost the planet to warm, they showed data that it was far warmer at 800 AD to 1200 AD than it is today,all of thee temp numbers are confirmed through chemical make up of stalagtites and stalagmite, dead ocean organisms buried in the ocean silt, tree rings from northern europe, the viking sagas from greenland.

they went into great detail about the little ice age that hit northern europe in the 17th century when the thames actually froze over and the historical accounts refer to one year as the year without summer due to it snowing all year round.

and even with all this data and conclusions,when the narrator summed up the show at the end of the hour he still was talking about how man made global warming was a big threat and it would be the end of us all.

the latest UN report on global warming was rewritten and editted  by political hacks  because they didn't like the conclusions made by some of the scientists and yet that report gets quoted all over the place as good science,if it was good science then why did it need to be changed by ppl not qualified to do any of the research or even interpret the raw data?

Al Gore and his fantasy movie has been shreaded by ppl with degrees in meteorology and a lot of other natural sciences,in the netherlands the school systems have to now tell students about all the scientific inacuracies(sp) in the movie before viewing it at school due to a court order yet we let our kids in this country see this crap without any explanation or counter point, they are scaring kids to death with bad science and when your kids come home and you talk to them about all of this and try to explain that a lot of it is blown way out of proportion, heaven forbid they go back to school and bring any of that up because they are ridiculed and told that they are part of the problem.

I am all for clean energy, clean air and water, we should be exploiting alternative energy sources but to use this bullshit arguement to try and create new taxes on ppl is criminal, it is as stupid as  Bush's ban on stem cell research or the Kansas education dept forcing science teachers to teach Intelligent Design

I just wish I was a kid in the biology class that tries to teach me Intelligent design because when I was done with that clown he would see how stupid that idea is,I would ask him if he was saying that Extra terrestrials were the designers, I would catch him in that stupid religion arguement.
I went to high school in a small town in utah one year and the students there went to semminary as a class during the day, they actually left the school building and crossed the street to go into a building the LDS church owned and went to a class, in any other state that shit would be illegal as hell and you could sue the school district and the state.

the science teacher in that high school spent 20 minutes on evolution on day, that was the whole lesson, he even said he didn't believe it.

I was in fucking shock.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare November 09, 2007, 06:52:11 PM
i guess i shouldn't even bother posting in the tinfoil-hat-thread anymore.  every time someone says something logical they get lambasted as being a NeoCon-NWO-Cheney-wannabe and flooded with links to stuff found in the dark corners owned by conspiracy theorists that are either just someone's opinion that you all are too eager to take as fact, or some grossly misrepresented fact/statement/statistic, or something that is truth but taken completely out of context.  my idea of being "informed" and "educated" does not include spending all day trolling through Conspiracy Land's travel brochures.

about the only thing i agree with in the entire thread is the global warming problem, if you can even really call it such a thing.  i have my doubts that we're causing as much damage as is claimed, especially considering one really good volcanic eruption can spew as much greenhouse gas into the air at one time as humans as a whole can in years.  plus, like sarge is saying, there's plenty of evidence to show the world has warmed and cooled on its own long before we invented the v8 engine and coal fired power.

if you're worrying a ton about the falling US dollar, get over it.  it was due for a correction after the massive value surge of roughly 35% it enjoyed in the late 1990s.  it's only fallen about 8% in the last few years and that brings it right line with where it should be due to normal inflation.  and i guess everyone's forgetting that a weaker US dollar makes it easier to sell our shit overseas and improve our trade balance while encouraging americans to buy shit made in america (if there even is such a thing as "made in USA" anymore).  and those little conspiracy flicks of yours that show US companies holdings and stocks being bought up by foreign nations fail to mention the part about how overall the US is still the world's largest economy, with the most liquid assets, and that actually it's only just over one tenth of the overall holdings in US companies that belong to foreign countries.  and all this whining about people losing their homes...  wow, i guess people should have thought of that before signing the line on a variable rate loan for a house that was out of their income range to begin with.  maybe instead of blaming lenders and credit cards for bankruptcy people need to think long 'n hard about the differences between necessity and desire.  i'm sorry, but just 'cause you might be 26 and a college graduate, that doesn't mean you're "entitled to" or even capable of having the same standard of living your parents enjoy at their ripe old age of 55.

it also sounds to me like you're the one that doesn't get the whole Posse Comitatus idea and the revisions made to it since it's inception.  funny you bring up the Katrina argument because that's a perfect example of how it's all SUPPOSED to work.  no shit the troops got called in... that's what happens when you have a natural disaster followed by mass looting and chaos that was on a scale too large for the local police to handle even if they hadn't run away the way that they did.  and the stuff about people getting their guns taken from them...  that was the call of law enforcement at a local level while in panic mode.  that wasn't big bad uncle sam, that was local government acting without a plan and making stupid decisions.  now you know why i pitch a fit every time i hear about lower standards for hiring police and government personnel.

aside from having to spend twice as long getting through airport security, can you even name one way that your life has actually changed since Bush took office?  i don't mean give me links to some one ranting about martial law and loss of civil liberty or what they think could happen, but one way your life has actually been impacted.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD November 09, 2007, 06:58:09 PM
Dude lox lives in NY city and I think he knew ppl that died in the towers
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy November 09, 2007, 07:55:54 PM
All the people that suppport Bush, or even just tolerate him will feel real stupid in a decade or two when the truth comes out..
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD November 09, 2007, 08:17:06 PM
the goddamn truth is out, just watch Front Line if you don't like Lox's sources

Thats not the tin foil helmet thread crowd, they went after the truth when clinton was in office and they are doing the same to Bush and the shit Bush has been pulling is goddamn pretty close to treason with his abuse of the powers fo the presidentcy and the way they have totally fucked the Justice dept up with their rewriting of the laws of this country to justify what ever they decide to pull that day.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare November 09, 2007, 09:01:51 PM
Dude lox lives in NY city and I think he knew ppl that died in the towers

yes, poor choice of words.    i have no doubt he knew people that never made it home that day.  im stuck in the middle of bumfuck mormon country and even i know of a few who didn't come back from their internships as well as a friend of mine that almost didn't come back, but Pentagon tho, not the towers.  i should have been more specific by asking if Bush's/fed government's policies post 9/11 have actually impacted your day to day life. 
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 10, 2007, 12:41:00 AM
sure hare i can name about 5 things pre/post 9/11

1. i lost friends on 9/11 due to government flase flag terror.

2.i have to give my mom half of my check every week becuz the real estate market is fucked up and there is no work for her (mortgage underwriter). dollar isn't worth any fucking thing anymore becuz of rampant spending for a fake fucking war
that totals around $500 billion and don't forget about the 2.9 trillion they claim they can't find
the canadian dollar is worth more the british pound is worth more and umm the euro is worth more.

4.i have to deal with random bag searchs when im getting on the train they just tell you to come here then they go threw all of ur shit. rent has went up becuz oil is a $100 a fucking barrel.

I Think That About Sums It Up

i think the military has dumbed you up pretty good eh? hare

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Skiiz November 10, 2007, 01:49:14 AM
Dude lox lives in NY city and I think he knew ppl that died in the towers
i should have been more specific by asking if Bush's/fed government's policies post 9/11 have actually impacted your day to day life. 

I think from the outset your question is doomed to have very real responses, no tin foil hats, particularly because lox lives in NYC. You can't only blame the people when regulatory agencies were gutted and lenders were allowed to run wild selling variable rate loans to consumers, even if you can show that it's not the governments responsibility, this government has done little to slow the growth of debt in America, and in fact, I think, we can see that this administration has either turned a blind eye or helped worsen the debt situation.

They don't teach civics anymore, let alone a practical understanding of the political system, but basically it takes more than one term in office to really make any major changes to the federal government. I'm not sure if this was the intent, or simply how we've adapted in modern times, but it essentially means that if voted out of office it's possible to pretty much dismantle was a previous president did, and if elected for a second term the president is almost sure to get their agenda passed. Now the major caveat here is that if you lose control of congress you're screwed, like what happened to Clinton... Bush is wrapping up his second term and he's had a great deal of deference from congress and the courts because of the "War on Terror."

Personally I don't care for a lot of Lox's sources, but to dismiss the issues outright is too hasty in my humble opinion... it's silly to not see how many Americans have been affected by the economy, spending on the Iraq war has harmed lots of federal and state programs. There are a lot of states that are having a very rough time because of cuts in government spending on social programs, and reallocation of public monies along ideological grounds.

But you are right, most people are not going to be impacted by the losses of liberty, however that is by design, this president has solidified more executive power than any other, and he's done it publicly, saying he's doing it for the benefit of future presidents.

Being an enemy combatant is a status offense, being innocent until proven guilty doesn't protect you. By executive decree you can be detained for up to three years with little or no counsel let alone access to the outside world. Just because they aren't doing it to normal people is not the point the fact that they can do it is the problem.

Military intervention in Iraq threats against Iran serve one glaring purpose, and even if it isn't the "intent" it undeniably works to increase the price of oil. And oil acts as an inflationary pressure, in fact, if you look at average increases in the price of oil, big and fast increases have always had negative impacts on the health of the American economy. I read a book four years ago that said by the end of the decade we'd be looking at oil around 100-120$ a barrel, gas at the pump between 7 and 10, a very volatile real-estate market, and significant increases in the value of gold and other precious metals/stones... and all the while interest rates would head up, there might be pockets of decreases, but overtime it would go up.

And now oil is almost 100$ a barrel and the value of gold is jumping, the economy is pretty much playing out exactly how the author said it would, which is basically how it responded to the massive increases in the price of oil in the 70's and 80's. The real-estate markets is fucking ridiculous with the number of foreclosures alone, I don't know about other parts of the country but Chicago is undergoing heavy construction all over the city at prices a great deal of residents can't afford. I just have to walk around the block and I can see a real problem with predatory lending...

I prefer to get my information from books written by authors not pundits nor people in tin hats but the message is basically the same, and that's the terrifying thing.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare November 10, 2007, 02:32:29 AM
1. i already know how you feel about that, that's your prerogative of who you want to assign the blame to.

2. can't help you there, i feel bad for you 'cause i been there myself at one point.  but the simple fact is the market is jacked 'cause too many people made dumb decisions to get places they couldn't afford in the first place and took the gamble that their interest rates wouldn't skyrocket before they got a chance to refinance at a low fixed-rate.

3.  if you want to exaggerate the (de)value, i'm not going to stop you there either.  spending on the iraq shitfest is only a small part of the problem, though.  your main problem is the fact the dollar isn't backed by a damn thing, hasn't been backed for over 25 years aside from faith in the currency itself.  the problem is that other countries around the world have been losing faith in the dollar due to the rampant corruption of Wall Street and american businesses.  essentially foreign investors aren't guaranteed a profitable return on their investments...  so they take their cash elsewhere. :(

4.  somehow i doubt it happens enough to be more than an inconvenience.  i spent close to 4 weeks in NYC, over the past 18 months, used the bus and subs the whole time and only got my bags poked through twice...  one of which was at the airport on the way back home.

5.  your rent went up like it does every winter 'cause your utilities are probably rolled in with your rent... the price of heating oil goes up in the winter time, every winter. it does that to me here as well.  it's simple supply and demand.  before we go poking at the shitfest in iraq again you better consider the fact that we're getting killed more by the supply/demand problem created by assholes like Hugo Chavez and his nationalization spree (as well as mexico and russia), an essential lock down on the tapping of our own oil reserves (you can thank all the tree hugging lobbyists for that), and enough EPA regulations to effectively prohibit building new refineries and upgrading/expanding the existing ones we have that would help us to keep up with the production demand.  last i heard iraqi oil imports only accounted for around 8% of the total imports and middle eastern oil in general only accounted for roughly 25% of our imports.   we can't keep blaming high prices on the ragheads, it's the bastard lobbyists in our own backyard making sure their bills get pushed through congress that are choking us by stomping on our ability to refine crude oil.

you got legit gripes man, you're just pointing fingers in the wrong places.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare November 10, 2007, 02:53:19 AM
ah shit imma pull a Colin and 2x post.

im not trying to dismiss the problems or issues by any stretch of the imagination.  i see it all around here too, the foreclosures, the bankruptcies, the crushing debt, the $3.50 for a gallon of 85 octane unleaded (don't even get me started on what i have to pay for 100LL/avgas and JET-A).  i'm just saying some, maybe a lot, of the places some people are looking for answers really aren't the best places to go and as a result, the fingers aren't getting pointed in the right directions.

i agree with a fair amount of what you have to say Eaz, there's a severe lack of education out there.  civics and world history wasn't a major thing when i went through school.  from what i remember my little sister telling me, it was even less so when she went through (or math, or english, and a host of other things for that matter, i suppose parole for Paris, Brangalina separating, and the latest episode of Friends is just more important)..  too many people have no idea how the government works as a result and a lot of the financial problems we're running into know i think are a result of the fact that no one is even taught nowadays how to handle their finances.  that makes a lot of easy targets for creditors and a whole bunch of people that don't understand you can't live like your parents do when you're half their age and earning a quarter of their income.

does the government carry the burden of being lax and allowing a lot of this to happen, either from ineptitude or indifference?  oh yes.

is there some global government bogey man out to take your guns, take your home, heard you into pens and execute you?  i hardly think so.

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 November 10, 2007, 09:13:20 PM
Here is a question. If the goverment planned 911, fabricated information, and cover ups; Why not fabricate information that proved chemical and biological weapons in Iraq? That would have made things so much more simple especially justifying the war and creating positive public opinion while they do their thing. Now, I do understand that Bush, Cheney, and their cronies are profiting highly from the war. But why not create chemical weapon proof to help justify the ongoing "war?"
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy November 10, 2007, 11:52:42 PM
Here is a question. If the goverment planned 911, fabricated information, and cover ups; Why not fabricate information that proved chemical and biological weapons in Iraq? That would have made things so much more simple especially justifying the war and creating positive public opinion while they do their thing. Now, I do understand that Bush, Cheney, and their cronies are profiting highly from the war. But why not create chemical weapon proof to help justify the ongoing "war?"

They covered up a ton of stuff .. That much is clear.   

as I have said, planning it, or covering up the actions(falling the buildings) after a "legitemate enemy attack" are two different things, however both are troublsome enough ..

they have no justification for the ongoing war at this point.

   early on there was a few stories about finding 17 year old mustard gas or some crap like that..
Regardless of what was or wasnt found, that "threat" is gone already.. 

Their story is fight them there(Middle east), or fight them here at home.

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Skiiz November 11, 2007, 04:23:35 AM
is there some global government bogey man out to take your guns, take your home, heard you into pens and execute you?  i hardly think so.

that's where I disagree, the "evil out there" will never be a readily identifiable element of society until it's too late, the game is exploiting crises to create economic and political reforms people wouldn't otherwise accept. When populations are terrified they cede control to government in a state of "emergency."

The patriot act is a prime example, with many legislators admitting to having not read it, and constituencies were too scared to even think about what we gave up. When the Berlin wall fell, the one third of the US economy that was then defense contractors shifted major assets away from weapons of conventional warfare and into high technology, surveillance and tracking. You can target "threats" with those "weapons" but it's not effective for external threats, that stuff only benefits you if you have easy access to your targets, that is, using it against your own populations.

Like the the legislation that has legally eliminated freedoms rode on the fear of terrorism, New Orleans was exploited in the wake of Katrina, 170 public schools and 5 charter schools before katrina hit, 40 charter schools and 30 public schools after. Milton Friendman decided to write his last op-ed for the NY Times shortly before he died, saying it was sad but also a great opportunity to completely remake the education system into his free market ideal. They basically fired the whole union of teachers and staff, and simply started over with for-profit charter schools, while many of the residents were gone and any opposition movement was fragmented and weak. New Orleans also saw the first deployment of Blackwater, paramilitary mercenaries, on US soil paid for by taxpayers...

Congress recently made it easier for the president to declare a state of emergency, and now he can, for example, deploy the national guard of Georgia into Washington state over the objections of both governors, and he doesn't have to tell congress about it until after the fact. Why would anyone need that much power? Especially powers specifically NOT allowed by the framers of the constitution?

You know, we have allowed some of the worlds largest corporations to carve up Iraq in backroom deals while we refused to just give the Iraqi's leadership in their future. We conducted polls, and then ignored the results, we knew they wanted us out fast, they wouldn't support de-nationalization of industry, and that they wanted a census done. The US dropped the ball on all that, I think they realized they needed to make sure Iraq gave up control of it's economy and was literally stuck implementing policies that multinationals wanted, including long term military bases. We're not leaving Iraq until we make sure the Iraqi's can't undo what we're doing to their economy, and that means stopping democracy from taking root. It's happened in too many countries to name, and they are starting to do it here in the US.

In my opinion 9/11 is the conspiracy spectacle that diverts our attention away from the very real and undisputed crimes that are being committed in our name abroad and against the citizenry at home.

The reason they can't fabricate evidence of Iraqi wmd's is because wmd's can be traced back to their source. The international community would have seen through the smoke and mirrors, it's easier to have the offical story be there are no wmds and promise to make sure there are wmds next time, than to be caught propping up more fake evidence. They already invoke 9/11 universally to raise anger against people totally unrelated to 9/11. And if you look at it we gain practically nothing from Iraq, the profits are going into the hands of the international business elite.

Given the chance they will try to implement the very same economic "reforms" here in the US. They've already done it on a small scale...

The End of America ( and The Shock Doctrine ( lay it out but there is a lot more to the story...
: High court to look at ban on handguns
: [Ht]LOx November 12, 2007, 01:47:19 AM
Saturday November 10, 2007

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court will discuss gun control today in a private conference that soon could explode publicly.

Behind closed doors, the nine justices will consider taking a case that challenges the District of Columbia's stringent handgun ban. Their ultimate decision will shape how far other cities and states can go with their own gun restrictions.

"If the court decides to take this up, it's very likely it will end up being the most important Second Amendment case in history," said Dennis Henigan, the legal director for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

Henigan predicted "it's more likely than not" that the necessary four justices will vote to consider the case. The court will announce its decision Tuesday, and oral arguments could be heard next year.

Lawyers are swarming.

Texas, Florida and 11 other states weighed in on behalf of gun owners who are challenging D.C.'s strict gun laws. New York and three other states want the gun restrictions upheld. Pediatricians filed a brief supporting the ban. A Northern California gun dealer, Russell Nordyke, filed a brief opposing it.

News Link
: Pentagon Insider Has Dire Warning
: [Ht]LOx November 13, 2007, 04:59:35 AM
Daniel Ellsberg
American Free Press
Monday November 12, 2007

 Daniel Ellsberg, the former Defense Department analyst who leaked the secret Pentagon Papers history of the Vietnam War, offered insights into the looming attack on Iran and the loss of liberty in the United States at a recent American University symposium. What follow are his comments from that speech. They have been edited only for space.

By Daniel Ellsberg

Let me simplify . . . and not just to be rhetorical: A coup has occurred. I woke up the other day realizing, coming out of sleep, that a coup has occurred. It’s not just a question that a coup lies ahead with the next 9-11. That’s the next coup that completes the first.

The last five years have seen a steady assault on every fundamental of our Constitution . . . what the rest of the world looked at for the last 200 years as a model and experiment to the rest of the world—in checks and balances, limited government, Bill of Rights, individual rights protected from majority infringement by the Congress, an independent judiciary, the possibility of impeachment.

There have been violations of these principles by many presidents before. Most of the specific things that Bush has done in the way of illegal surveillance and other matters were done under my boss Lyndon Johnson in the Vietnam War: the use of CIA, FBI, NSA against Americans.

All these violations were impeachable had they been found out at the time but in nearly every case the violations were not found out until [the president was] out of office so we didn’t have the exact challenge that we have today.

That was true with the first term of Nixon and certainly of Johnson, Kennedy and others. They were impeachable. They weren’t found out in time. But I think it was not their intention, in the crisis situations that they felt justified their actions, to change our form of government.

It is increasingly clear with each new book and each new leak that comes out, that Richard Cheney and his now chief of staff David Addington have had precisely that in mind since at least the early 1970s. Not just since 1992, not since 2001, but [they] have believed in executive government, single-branch government under an executive president—elected or not—with unrestrained powers. They did not believe in restraint.

When I say this, I’m not saying they are traitors. I don’t think they have in mind allegiance to some foreign power or have a desire to help a foreign power. I believe they have in their own minds a love of this country and what they think is best for this country—but what they think is best is directly and consciously at odds with what the Founders of this country [and the Framers of the Constitution] thought.

They believe we need a different kind of government now, an executive government essentially, rule by decree, which is what we’re getting with ‘signing statements.’

Signing statements are talked about as line-item vetoes which is one [way] of describing them which are unconstitutional in themselves, but in other ways are just saying the president says: ‘I decide what I enforce. I decide what the law is. I legislate.’

It’s [the same] with the military commissions, courts that are under the entire control of the executive branch, essentially of the president—a concentration of legislative, judicial, and executive powers in one branch, which is precisely what the founders meant to avert, and tried to avert and did avert to the best of their ability in the Constitution.”

Now I’m appealing to that as a crisis right now not just because it is a break in tradition but because I believe in my heart and from my experience that on this point the Founders had it right. It’s not just ‘our way of doing things’— it was a crucial perception on the corruption of power to anybody, including Americans.

On procedures and institutions that might possibly keep that power under control because the alternative was what we have just seen, wars like Vietnam, wars like Iraq, wars like the one coming.

That brings me to the second point. This executive branch, under specifically Bush and Cheney, despite opposition [even] from most of the rest of the branch, even of the cabinet, clearly intends a war against Iran, which, even by imperialist standards, [violates] standards in other words which were accepted not only by nearly everyone in the executive branch but most of the leaders in Congress.

The interests of the empire, the need for hegemony, our right to control and our need to control the oil of the Middle East and many other places. That is consensual in our establishment. …

But even by those standards, an attack on Iran is insane. And I say that quietly, I don’t mean it to be heard as rhetoric. Of course it’s not only aggression and a violation of international law, a supreme international crime, but it is by imperial standards, insane in terms of the consequences.

Does that make it impossible? No, it obviously doesn’t; it doesn’t even make it unlikely.

That is because two things come together that with the acceptance for various reasons of the Congress—Democrats and Republicans—and the public and the media, we have freed the White House — the president and the vice president—from virtually any restraint by Congress, courts, media, public, whatever.

And on the other hand, the people who have this unrestrained power are crazy. Not entirely, but they have crazy beliefs.

And the question is what then, can we do about this?

We are heading toward an insane operation. It is not certain. [But it] is likely.… I want to try to be realistic myself here, to encourage us to do what we must do, what is needed to be done with the full recognition of the reality. Nothing is impossible.

What I’m talking about in the way of a police state, in the way of an attack on Iran, is not certain. Nothing is certain, actually. However, I think it is probable, more likely than not, that in the next 15, 16 months of this administration we will see an attack on Iran. Probably. Whatever we do.

And . . . we will not succeed in moving Congress, probably, and Congress probably will not stop the president from doing this. And that’s where we’re heading. That’s a very ugly, ugly prospect.

However, I think it’s up to us to work to increase that small, perhaps—anyway not large—possibility and probability to avert this within the next 15 months, aside from the effort that we have to make for the rest of our lives.

Getting back the constitutional government and improving it will take a long time. And I think if we don’t get started now, it won’t be started under the next administration.

Getting out of Iraq will take a long time. Averting Iran and averting a further coup in the face of a 9-11, another attack, is for right now, it can’t be put off. It will take a kind of political and moral courage of which we have seen very little.

We have a really unusual concentration here and in this audience, of people who have in fact changed their lives, changed their position, lost their friends to a large extent, risked and experienced being called terrible names, ‘traitor,’ ‘weak on terrorism’—names that politicians will do anything to avoid being called.

How do we get more people in the government and in the public at large to change their lives now in a crisis in a critical way? How do we get Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid for example? What kinds of pressures, what kinds of influences can be brought to bear to get Congress to do their jobs? It isn’t just doing their jobs. Getting them to obey their oaths of office.

I took an oath many times, an oath of office as a Marine lieutenant, as an official in the Defense Department, as an official in the State Department as a Foreign Service officer. A number of times I took an oath of office which is the same oath of office taken by every member of Congress and every official in the United States and every officer in the armed services.

And that oath is not to a commander in chief, which is not [even] mentioned. It is not to a Fuehrer. It is not even to superior officers. The oath is precisely to protect and uphold the Constitution of the United States.

Now that is an oath I violated every day for years in the Defense Department without realizing it when I kept my mouth shut when I knew the public was being lied into a war as they were lied into Iraq, as they are being lied into war in Iran.

I knew that I had the documents that proved it, and I did not put it out then. I was not obeying my oath, which I eventually came to do.

I’ve often said that Lt. Ehren Watada—who still faces trial for refusing to obey orders to deploy to Iraq which he correctly perceives to be an unconstitutional and aggressive war—is the single officer in the United States armed services who is taking seriously [the matter of] upholding his oath.

The president is clearly violating that oath, of course. [All the personnel] under him who understand what is going on — and there are myriad — are violating their oaths. And that’s the standard that I think we should be asking of people.

On the Democratic side, on the political side, I think we should be demanding of our Democratic leaders in the House and Senate—and frankly of the Republicans —that it is not their highest single absolute priority to be reelected or to maintain a Democratic majority so that Pelosi can still be speaker of the House and Reid can be in the Senate, or to increase that majority.

I’m not going to say that for politicians they should ignore that, or that they should do something else entirely, or that they should not worry about that.
Of course that will be and should be a major concern of theirs, but they’re acting like it’s their sole concern. Which is business as usual. “We have a majority, let’s not lose it, let’s keep it. Let’s keep those chairmanships.”

Exactly what have those chairmanships done for us to save the Constitution in the last couple of years?

I am shocked by the Republicans today that I read [about] in The Washington Post who threatened a filibuster if we … get back habeas corpus. The ruling out of habeas corpus with the help of the Democrats did not get us back to George the First it got us back to before King John 700 years ago in terms of counter-revolution.

I think we’ve got to somehow get home to them [in Congress] that this is the time for them to uphold the oath, to preserve the Constitution, which is worth struggling for in part because it’s only with the power that the Constitution gives Congress responding to the public, only with that can we protect the world from madmen in power in the White House who intend an attack on Iran.

And the current generation of American generals and others who realize that this will be a catastrophe have not shown themselves —they might be people who in their past lives risked their bodies and their lives in Vietnam or elsewhere, like [Colin] Powell, and would not risk their career or their relations with the president to the slightest degree.

That has to change. And it’s the example of people like those up here who somehow brought home to our representatives that they as humans and as citizens have the power to do likewise and find in themselves the courage to protect this country and protect the world. Thank you.”

News Link
: Loose Change Final Cut Is Here "ANOTHER MUST SEE"
: [Ht]LOx November 13, 2007, 05:25:34 AM

Loose Change Final Cut is the third and final release of this documentary series. We draw upon our experience and research that's taken place since the release of Loose Change 2nd Edition to make this new film.



: Re: Loose Change Final Cut
: [Ht]LOx November 13, 2007, 07:41:10 AM
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare November 13, 2007, 11:49:43 AM
ha, another  cut of it...yes(1) (,believe(2) ( it(3) ( if(4) ( you(5) ( want(6) (
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 13, 2007, 05:12:23 PM
hare ur a funny guy man trying to smear loose change can't wait till they ship you over there and you see the truth first hand when you wake up missing a leg or a fucking arm.

They Gotta Be Somewhere <----Funny That He Got 3,000+ PPL KILLED


Please Don't Post Neo-Con Shit In My Thread Again
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare November 13, 2007, 10:59:39 PM
i fail to see how that was "neo-con" anything?  there wasn't even anything political about what i said.  you're just getting all bent 'cause Loose Change holds about as much water as the plastic bucket i used for target practice last weekend out at the range. ( ( (

maybe you should change your thread title to "Lox's Doom and Gloom Thread...  No Discussion or Dissenting Opinions Allowed."
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 14, 2007, 06:59:27 AM
haha you can't debunk 9/11 hare give it up 9/11 comission won't even touch building 7 it would be stupid of you to start another 9/11 debate with me dude.

For Some News Now

House Subcommittee Presentation Equates 9/11 Truth With Terrorism
Represents the internet, sites such as myspace and youtube as a virtual terror training camps


News Link

9/11 shit starts at 38mins into it
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare November 14, 2007, 11:12:17 AM
yeah, i guess it is pretty hard to debunk 9/11 if the only places a person looks for info are the places run by conspiracy kooks that hand pick quotes, leave out half the facts, and only present info taken out of context while ignoring a preponderance of info that contradicts their claims.

unfortunately, the internet has made sure the days of scholarly writing that's been verified and peer reviewed by academics are long gone.  now anyone that can run windows movie maker and throw up a professional looking website can appear legit and authoritative no matter how outlandish their claims.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 14, 2007, 12:27:06 PM
fuck whatever you have to say larry silverstein blew up WTC 7 admited it on pbs <---you cannot fucking debate that <-----thanks larry

Bombs Where Going Off Right? <----------thanks guys

lobby blown out guys? <---yeah man

Please Don't Post BullShit Again
If You Punch Me In The Mouth Do You Think My Dick Would Be Bleeding Also?

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 November 14, 2007, 02:26:27 PM
fuck whatever you have to say larry silverstein blew up WTC 7 admited it on pbs <---you cannot fucking debate that <-----thanks larry
This is a 26 sec clip where he says he decided to "pull it." What is pulling it? Where is the rest of this interview so that statement is in context.

Bombs Where Going Off Right? <----------thanks guys
Sounds of explosions. I would assume a building collapsing would be very loud. Shearing bolts can sound like an explosion.
The guy who maintains the MTS fatigue testers where I used to work told a story where they test steel bars up to 1 foot thick. It is put into a bar tester and pulled apart which takes a huge amount of hydolic force. The steel starts to look like taffy being pulled apart and then lets off a sonic boom upon failure.

lobby blown out guys? <---yeah man
The force of the collapsing building would cause this. If this was before the collpase, this item is suspect.
Please Don't Post BullShit Again
If You Punch Me In The Mouth Do You Think My Dick Would Be Bleeding Also?

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD November 14, 2007, 02:43:51 PM
yeah, i guess it is pretty hard to debunk 9/11 if the only places a person looks for info are the places run by conspiracy kooks that hand pick quotes, leave out half the facts, and only present info taken out of context while ignoring a preponderance of info that contradicts their claims.

unfortunately, the internet has made sure the days of scholarly writing that's been verified and peer reviewed by academics are long gone.  now anyone that can run windows movie maker and throw up a professional looking website can appear legit and authoritative no matter how outlandish their claims.

You have to joking or do you mean the fine reporting done back at the beginning of the Viet Nam war when the bay of tonkin was reported by the johnson admin. and used to justify the ramping up of that conflict, an event that turns out to never have had happened but then again this govt would never lie to us to justify a war.

I have watched the show produced to debunk the 9 11 conspiracy and all they have is a some young guy that works for Popular (mechanics/science. not sure which) who doesn't prove that he has any expertise or experience repeating everything the press has reported which was fed to it by the govt.

If you actually take the time and watch Loose change then how do you explain the series of explosions that go off in the tower behind the reporter doing that live feed or all the firemen talking about all the small explosions going off?

Don't believe what anyone tells you, open you eyes and look at exactly what you see,the US govt has a long history of lying to the ppl, it has been proven so many times that it boggles the mind that anyone with a brain would believe anything they tell you.

I have a book in my bookcase titled Comprised:Clinton,Bush and the CIA.,it is about the cia exporting guns to el salvidor and drugs coming back in on the same planes. the book is about barry Seal and terry reed, Terry Reed is the author.

the M-16s were all made in Arkansas with Clinton in on the whole deal.

the funny part about all of this book is that is it taken from the testimony of a federal trial that took place in Kansas and Terry Reed beat the Govt yet you would call it all conspiracy because this shit in this book is fucking crazy but yet it was all proven in court

then you have the OK city bombing where the Govt swears there was no third person(John Doe #3) yet this reporter wouldn't let it go and kept after the story and found a man that was seen with McVay before the bombing,she actual named the guy and kept racking up the evidence yet the FBI wouldn't even listen to gets even better, the guy she named actually sued her in federal court for Libel and she won, she actually proved to the judge that there was a third bomber and that this was the guy,I guess that judge is a wacko too because to this day the Govt still maintains that there was only two ppl involved.

this is the link to that reporter's site but you will just write her off as a kook so why bother even looking which is pretty sad because the Wall street Journal gave her the Front page to write her story

So tell me how the govt wouldn't lie about buildings being bombed or the CIA pulling shit that is against the law or looking the other way when it comes to drug smuggling.

You should just give up posting in this thread because you just spewwing the govt line is a fucking joke.

and for those looking for the impetous for such a fucked up act just look at the trllion dollars already spent in Iraq,especially when you consider that the military budget in this country was shrinking rapidly after the Cold War ended, ppl will kill over that kind of money
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 14, 2007, 03:29:49 PM
just look at the trllion dollars already spent in Iraq,especially when you consider that the military budget in this country was shrinking rapidly after the Cold War ended, ppl will kill over that kind of money - Sarge

Thats Exactly What They Are Doing Right Now

Gulf Tonkin Staged. the end game = vietnam war

9/11 Flase Flag Terror. the end game = afghanistan/iraq/iran <---coming soon/syria after

False flag operations are covert operations conducted by governments, corporations, or other organizations, which are designed to appear as if they are being carried out by other entities. The name is derived from the military concept of flying false colors; that is, flying the flag of a country other than one's own. False flag operations are not limited to war and counter-insurgency operations, and have been used in peace-time; for example, during Italy's strategy of tension.

Examples of false flag attacks as pretexts for war

The social critic Gore Vidal suggests that the mysterious explosion on the USS Maine in 1898 (which was the pretext for the Spanish-American War) was not the result of Spanish sabotage but was actually a false flag attack done by the US government (Vidal, 2003).

In the 1931 Mukden incident, Japanese officers fabricated a pretext for annexing Manchuria by blowing up a section of railway. Six years later, they falsely claimed the kidnapping of one of their soldiers in the Marco Polo Bridge Incident as an excuse to invade China proper.

The Reichstag Fire of February 27, 1933 has been attributed to the government of the newly elected Adolf Hitler by documents obtained by the Allies after the war and testimony of the Nuremberg Trials.

In the Gleiwitz incident in August 1939, Reinhard Heydrich made use of fabricated evidence of a Polish attack against Germany to mobilize German public opinion and to fabricate a false justification for a war with Poland. This, along with other false flag operations in Operation Himmler would be used to mobilize support from the German population for the start of World War II in Europe.

On November 26, 1939 the Soviet Union shelled the village of Mainila near the Finnish border and forged casualties. The Shelling of Mainila was cited a justification for the Soviet Union to attack Finland four days later.

In 1953, the U.S. and British-orchestrated Operation Ajax used "false-flag" and propaganda operations against the democratically elected leader of Iran, Mohammed Mosaddeq. Information regarding the CIA-sponsored coup d'etat has been largely declassified and is available the CIA archives.[2]

In 1954, Israel sponsored an operation against US and UK interests in Cairo aiming to cause trouble between Egypt and the West.[3] This operation, latter dubbed the Lavon Affair wrongly cost Israeli defense minister Pinhas Lavon his job. Israel (where it is known as "The Unfortunate Affair") finally admitted responsibility in 2005.[4]

The planned, but never executed, 1962 Operation Northwoods plot by the US Department of Defense for a war with Cuba involved scenarios such as hijacking a passenger plane and blaming it on Cuba. It was authored by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, nixed by John F. Kennedy, came to light through the Freedom of Information Act and was publicized by James Bamford.

The 1964 Gulf of Tonkin Incident has been accused of being a false flag operation which was conducted by the US Navy, claiming that they were under attack by North Vietnamese gunboats.

Former GRU officer Aleksey Galkin [5], former FSB officer Alexander Litvinenko [6] and other whistleblowers from the Russian government and security services have asserted that the 1999 Russian apartment bombings that precipitated the Second Chechen War were false flag operations perpetrated by the FSB, the successor organization to the KGB.

New Link

How Many Times Do You See The Good ol US OF A Hare?

They say those who don't understand history are doomed to repeat it.  The fact is, understanding history doesn't prevent you from re-living it either.  Unless, I suppose, you are a dictator.  But if you were, then you would be in the middle of one of history's great mistakes and probably repeating many of the seemingly avoidable problems you got yourself into.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare November 14, 2007, 11:36:05 PM
You have to joking or do you mean the fine reporting done back at the beginning of the Viet Nam war when the bay of tonkin was reported by the johnson admin. and used to justify the ramping up of that conflict, an event that turns out to never have had happened but then again this govt would never lie to us to justify a war.

what the hell, i've never said that we've never been lied to to go to war.  Spanish-Am. war, duh.  you've got yellow journalism to thank for that more than the government tho.  last i checked the cause for the ignition of the powder on board was, to this day, STILL undetermined.  of course the papers were all to happy to exploit that on top of the already present situation in Cuba to sell copies and increase circulation.  i guess maybe everyone forgot the famous quote of Hurst, "you provide the pictures and i'll provide the war."  i equate your hero Alex Jones to Pulitzer and Hurst of old.  fear mongering an misinformation... only in his case, instead of turning nation on nation, he's trying to turn the people against their own nation, and no doubt in the process, making a pretty penny from the advertisers wanting to throw their shit at the people passing by his websites and listening to his radio shows.

Vietnam and Johnson, duh. 

our second bout with Saddam, duh.  for crying out loud it only cost 50,000 Swiss francs for Mossad to purchase copies of the forged documents created by the Italian SISMI specifically for the CIA...  17 pages of false reports attempting to show that iraq had purchased yellowcake under the table from Niger...  information that was actually refuted by an investigation done by ambassador Joe Wilson, married to Val Plame, but that's a whole ball of wax i'm not even going to touch.  so yeah, Rummie and Cheney basically used bogus intel and rode the anti-terror wave of 9/11 right into Baghdad to settle what they considered "unfinished business" from the Bush Sr. administration.  been saying that from day 1.

the whole Op Northwoods argument is like trying to compare apples and oranges.  the proposed planes and ships for that operation were supposed to be drone craft, devoid of any passengers and destroyed in CUBAN territory.  no loss of life or damage to "real" US property was to occur in those situations.  lets also not forget the guys that came up with that idea got shit-canned for their wonderful little idea.

I have a book in my bookcase titled Comprised:Clinton,Bush and the CIA.,it is about the cia exporting guns to el salvidor and drugs coming back in on the same planes. the book is about barry Seal and terry reed, Terry Reed is the author.

ok, so hows that any different from a lot of other things we've been doing for the last 50 years?  OSS (forerunner of the CIA) using La Cosa Nostra to help us route the Axis powers out of italy.  running guns to south america and else where to fight communists down there vicariously, and then selling their drugs to finance other shady ops.  using Ibn Laden and his jihad happy band to punk the Soviets in Afghanistan back in the 80s.  nothing new there last i checked. 

then you have the OK city bombing where the Govt swears there was no third person(John Doe #3)

k, that just reiterates what i've said before several times and re-illustrates that it was time for a freaking overhaul.  i've read her work before and have no reason to doubt it.  FBI has always been about bank robbers and organized crime.  traditionally they haven't given a damn about foreign national terrorist groups.  as far as they were concerned that was the NSA and CIA's problem, not theirs... and we all know how well those guys got together pre 9/11.  hell, post 9/11 they can't seem to work together that well. 

If you actually take the time and watch Loose change then how do you explain the series of explosions that go off in the tower behind the reporter doing that live feed or all the firemen talking about all the small explosions going off?

and when you look at the FULL transcripts of most of those interviews and statements they read something to the effect of "sounded like explosions, BUT could have been transformers blowing (which is where my personal opinion is), floors collapsing, industrial sized water heaters blowing, gas mains, etc etc etc."

yes, quote mining and cherry picking at its finest.  good job Dylan, keep on trucking, boy.

you want to tell me that a bunch of guys wired the fucking towers to blow, a process that for a controlled demo takes up to 18 months for a large and complex building with no one noticing?  that a plane could fly in there and not fuck up all that carefully laid work?  or if it wasn't that, then they rushed in there and set the whole thing to blow after the plane hit...  got it all up and running in a matter of hours??  yeah, k, whatever.  as for your WTC7 "proof", this about does the number. (  kinda funny that we can find little bits and pieces of the people inside those two giant heaps of rubble, but not one single part of a bomb, explosive, or detonating device.

we got caught with our pants down by a bunch of pissed off rag-heads, plain and simple, then cheney, and rummie use it as a springboard for doing what they wanted to get done and we all bought it back in 2003, hook, line 'n sinker.  that's all there is to it.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Skiiz November 15, 2007, 07:53:28 AM
we got caught with our pants down by a bunch of pissed off rag-heads, plain and simple, then cheney, and rummie use it as a springboard for doing what they wanted to get done.  that's all there is to it.

I don't like most of the reporting on 9/11, and honestly the questions the truth movement ends up asking ignore important issues because there is little room to concede any bit. But the answers and conclusions that the counter movement makes are equally problematic for me.

It's not just as simple as terrorists caught us unguarded. They used tactics we taught (and there were warnings for a good while before 9/11, conveniently no one followed up on them). Some of the named "terrorists" appeared to clear their names afterwards. Some of the terrorists hail from countries we have rather warm relations with, as well as places the CIA teaches this shit.

And even more problematic is the ideology of neo-liberalism that permeates the administration, best explained by one of the founders Milton Friedman, "Only a crisis--actual or perceived--produces real change." This little bit said in 1982 informed by at least a decade of efforts in latin america refining the process of inducing crises and deploying terror tactics makes the failures of 9/11 even greater, because it could very easily have been used as a means to the dead-ends we find ourselves in in Iraq. The Friedman quote continues, "When that crisis occurs, the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are lying around. That I believe, is our basic function: to develop alternatives to existing policies, to keep them alive and available until the politically impossible becomes politically inevitable."

I could go on, but I'd get farther away from my point, this 9/11 truth debate is a distraction from what I think are greater concerns. Fixating on whether or not our government had anything to do with 9/11 spreads our energy out on events in the past that the government has pretty direct control over, stopping us from looking at how the government, and more specifically this administration, benefited from and exploited 9/11, terror, and the war in Iraq.

We've given up a lot of freedom for "security" even those basic freedoms that were supposed to protect against abuse of government, and we've created a nightmare in one of the oldest nations/cultures on this planet. I don't think this last point will ever be emphasized enough, I don't even think Americans can appreciate it. If someone occupied D.C. and said they would hand it over to us after they destroyed it and rebuilt it while we just sit back ready to accept the new D.C. they make for us.

Sarge, I linked to a video of Naomi Klein talking about "The Shock Doctrine ( (The Rise of Disaster Capitalism)" in an earlier post, I've found it a pretty good read. Jermey Scahill's   Blackwater ( (Rise of the Worlds Most Powerful Private Army) and American Theocracy ( by Kevin Phillips are two good related reads. I liked American Theocracy a lot because it's a republican writing about his party, so where partisan politics might have entered instead you get a sober critique by a longtime party supporter. If you're in a book store they are worth the time to stop and glance through, or the money to buy.

ps quoting yourself is lolz
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare November 15, 2007, 10:40:23 AM
ya, hit the wrong damn button when i went to add in somethin i thought of later.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 November 15, 2007, 12:01:02 PM
"Sounds like Bombs"
When you crack a whip the end breaks the sound barrier and makes a small sonic boom. The same thing happens when you break a steel bar, sheat a bolt, etc. Even a tree falling can be rather loud. So, a building callapsing coud easily produce several sounds like bombs. If there were bombs going off there would be chemical evidence and I have never read anything about that.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 15, 2007, 01:55:07 PM
maroon you forgot they removed all the steel from the biggest crime scene in history shipped it to china
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare November 15, 2007, 02:21:40 PM
point being? (
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 November 15, 2007, 04:27:15 PM
maroon you forgot they removed all the steel from the biggest crime scene in history shipped it to china

The fact that it went to China isn't all that strang considering the global steel economy. What is distubring is that I have never read anything about chemical testing one way or another. In fact I have never read anything about official testing results period. This is one of those Kennedy assisination deals-- the goverment is supressing a lot of shit and we will never know the truth. Hell, the vatican is just now realeasing shit about the Knights Templar from 1600. Who fucking knows when any light will be spread on this shit. But, I still think it is a far stretch to assume goverment involvement from goverment supression of information and goverment not acting on any tips before this happened.

Have you ever seen the movie All the President's men? It is about the Nixon watergate deal. The shit the reporters had to go through to uncover something as minor as that. I know if any reporter was uncovering hard evidence to produce goverment involvement he would disapear.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 15, 2007, 05:18:15 PM
here you go maroon this guy has run test on the steel

Professor Steven Jones : 9/11 Symposium 11/03/07

Physicist Stephen Jones gives his presentation "Whats New in 9/11 Research" at the 9/11 Symposium in Weats Hartford CT. 11/03/07
Dr. Jones is a founding member of Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice and The Journal of 9/11 Studies. <---video of the symposium <----almost 300 Professors And Engineers


you do not get that from fires dude AND THAT PIC IS FROM NASA
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare November 15, 2007, 08:41:08 PM
hate to burst your bubble again, but do you really want to be bringing up S. Jones when even the Scholars for Truth movement are distancing themselves from him?

...he repeatedly characterizes his own studies of the use of thermite (in a sulfur-enhanced version known as "thermate") as both preliminary and incomplete. If that is the case, then by his own standard, there is a serious question whether his own research is ready for prime time! It is also worth mention that he has revised his basic paper on numerous occasions, which, to the best of my knowledge, have not been subject to additional peer review. If we only mention or discuss finished research on, there is a serious question whether Steve's work properly qualifies for inclusion in the journal he edits, much less the web site.

To the best of my knowledge, Steve has found support among perhaps ten or twelve members of Scholars who are active on the forum. Since our current membership approximates 400, this does not appear to be the majority view.

straight off their website.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 15, 2007, 09:01:30 PM
link it please
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare November 15, 2007, 09:34:38 PM
sorry, here's the link to it.  i didn't bother to check first to see if it were a straight shot from the home page first.  apparently this has long since fallen off the front, given the date on the letter. (
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 15, 2007, 10:49:14 PM
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD November 15, 2007, 11:27:23 PM
so Hare is now quoting ppl that believe an energy beam was used to take down the towers?

and you give us shit about cherry picking LOL

and here is a pretty good article about the testing done on the steel and failure loads and the UL labs not being too sure about what they exactly had to do with it all
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare November 16, 2007, 03:01:40 AM
oh fuck the lasers, you know what i was getting at.  basically what i've been saying all along...  can't put too much stock in a guy's claims if he's not submitting his work for review and it looks like the "Scholars" movement finally decided the same thing.  i read his response as well, it seems that he's more interested in rebutting the "take over" claims made by Fetzer and slamming the energy beam thing (which is so far out there it's an absurd idea to begin with).  he hasn't really addressed his unwillingness to have his work reviewed in depth and not getting around to having things published in academic circles.

i've had to spend enough of my life around those kind of folks to know that if you aren't willing to have every aspect of your work picked at by experts in your field (especially the opposing ones), that sends up all kinds of red flags as to the validity of the work.  the whole idea of sending your research through the gauntlet is to identify problems with your methodology, experimentation, and reasoning and correct those issues before you publish.  in most cases a legit journal or magazine won't even consider printing your ideas unless you've gone through that process.  it's also the same reasoning behind holding Daubert hearings and going through a Frye test before scientific testimony can be offered in a court of law.

as i remember the U of U ran into a similar problem years ago with the guys claiming they'd solved the mystery of cold fusion.  only problem is that they wouldn't release their data for anyone to check.  then, to top it off, no one was even able to repeat the results they got when they finally submitted their procedures.  later they admitted they didn't really know what actually happened, they threw some stuff together, hit a switch and got an ass load of heat.

anyhow, i stumbled on that Jones/Fetzer open letter note earlier in the afternoon and found it interesting that there's such a division over there in the conspiracy land...  not to mention even some even farther whacked out stuff than thermite and explosives.
: C.H.A.N.G.E. confronts Larry Silverstein
: [Ht]LOx November 16, 2007, 04:27:20 PM
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 November 16, 2007, 09:28:59 PM
Pull it - sounds vague to me
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Indignation November 17, 2007, 01:28:37 PM
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 17, 2007, 06:48:57 PM
don't fuck with the thread indig pls thx bud.
: Saudi minister warns of dollar collapse
: [Ht]LOx November 17, 2007, 07:03:29 PM
Edmund Conway
London Telegraph
Saturday November 17, 2007

The dollar could collapse if Opec officially admits considering changing the pricing of oil into alternative currencies such as the euro, the Saudi Arabian foreign minister has warned.

Prince Saud Al-Faisal was overheard ruling out a proposal from Iran and Venezuela to discuss pricing crude in a private meeting at the oil cartel's conference.

In an embarrassing blunder at the meeting in Riyadh, ministers' microphones were not cut off during a key closed meeting, and Prince Al-Faisal was heard saying: "My feeling is that the mere mention that the Opec countries are studying the issue of the dollar is itself going to have an impact that endangers the interests of the countries.

"There will be journalists who will seize on this point and we don't want the dollar to collapse instead of doing something good for Opec."

After around 40 minutes press officials cut off the feed, which had been accidentally broadcast to the press room.

Prince Al-Faisal added: "This is not new. We have done this in the past: decide to study something without putting down on paper that we are going to study it so that we avoid any implication that will bring adverse effects on our countries' finances."

News Link
: The Thought Crime Bill
: [Ht]LOx November 17, 2007, 08:02:23 PM
so i want trolling around the internet today being the news whore i am and ran into this shit.

Reminds You Of Minority Report EH?

New World Order Rolling Along As Planned


: Re: The Thought Crime Bill
: hare November 18, 2007, 12:27:09 AM
so i want trolling around the internet today being the news whore i am and ran into this shit.

haven't read much of the article, only had about 3 minutes, won't have time to really dig into it 'til monday.  it does look like the typical government approach tho...  trying to solve a problem by creating a law (remember gun control and assault weapons bans?).

the thinking is fundamentally flawed in the sense that a set of laws will curb that sort of activity.  in order for that to happen the perps (terrorists) would have to be making a conscious and rational hedonistic decision... risk v. reward, cost v. benefit, do the crime v. do the time sort of thing.  i highly doubt terrorists are in that mind frame. in all reality it simply gives authority to take action against groups already engaged in those sorts of things...  simply put, it's reactionary thinking, not proactive and not preventative.

you can create laws that might make combating terrorism or extremism easier, but that just deals with the problem after the fact.  the only real way to stomp out radical and hate filled ideology is to take the time to eliminate it at the source and get rid of the conditions that breed that sort of mentality.  unfortunately, one of those things that's easier said than done.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Indignation November 18, 2007, 03:31:56 PM
don't fuck with the thread indig pls thx bud.

Lox im not messing with the thread. That episode of South Park was a direct commentary on the idea that 911 was an inside job. You saying theres no room in this thread to see the other side of the arguement?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 18, 2007, 10:10:09 PM
no no don't get me wrong there is plenty of room for debate i ment to edit that post.
: Chavez Tells OPEC to Use Politics, Curb `Imperialism'
: [Ht]LOx November 20, 2007, 12:35:24 AM
Daniel Williams and Maher Chmaytelli
Monday November 19, 2007

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez brought his revolutionary zeal to the cartel that controls 40 percent of the world's oil, urging fellow members at a weekend summit to fight against ``imperialism'' and ``exploitation.''

Chavez used the Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, meeting of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries to advance a struggle for the soul of the cartel. Countering him was the conference host, Saudi King Abdullah, who said the organization's goal was simply to produce prosperity.

Their contrasting visions elbowed aside the usual OPEC talk about production quotas and currency fluctuations. In the short term at least, Abdullah's vision is likely to prevail, said Ihsan Bu-Hulaiga, who runs a private business consulting firm in Riyadh and advises the Saudi government.

OPEC has to do with oil; it cannot solve the world's problems with a political agenda,'' he said. ``It would be putting its bread and butter at risk.''

Support for Chavez came from President Rafael Vicente Correa of Ecuador and from Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, whose nation is the target of a U.S.-led campaign of sanctions and pressure over allegations that it is pursuing nuclear weapons and destabilizing the region.

Chavez, 53, and Correa, 44, stopped short of threatening an embargo in case of a U.S. attack on Iran. ``We don't want to speculate,'' Correa said in response to a question about whether a halt in oil sales to the U.S. should be employed in case of war.

News Link
: Fox Host Says Dissenters Should Be Tased
: [Ht]LOx November 20, 2007, 01:27:08 PM

trying to get us use to this shit. they are trying to get violent now becuz we are exposing them[/b
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD November 20, 2007, 07:57:26 PM
the simple way to fuck Venezuela is to quit buying Citgo gas, thats the state owned oil company there and if we all just didn't buy their gas any more all the refineries, stations and other investment would be worthless plus cut off a very large chunk of the idiot's cash flow.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD November 20, 2007, 10:43:29 PM
What the fuck is wrong with these assholes in the Govt

this is just a fucking crime.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Skiiz November 20, 2007, 10:47:47 PM
at this point, if the US invaded iran, i'd stop selling it oil too...

steaking claim with a decidedly imperialist stance to a majority of the world's oil reserves is not something an oil producing nation should easily overlook. It might be good business with sky high prices but the security risk is too big. the US ALREADY launched a pre-emptive war without any proof of a clear and present danger, it makes little sense to again aid a non-opec country in the acquisition of another opec country's oil. Especially after Iraq...
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD November 20, 2007, 10:58:40 PM
and then I find this gem

this shit is treason plain and simple, the damage they did by outing that CIA agent is incalcuable(sp)

every foreign national ever seen eating lunch or just talking to this woman in the past was probably looked at by that country's inteligence service and quite a few of them were probably picked up for "questioning"

Thats what happens when spies are uncovered, ppl go back and look for known associates that might have either revealed or sold secrets to her, it totally fucks up any ppl she might have been able to recruit or turn to give this country secret information.

This White House threw all of that away to try and cover up intel that revealed what a bullshit reason they had for going to war.

4400 dead and lord knows how many wounded for a lie and you think that these assholes would care about 3000 killed in new york?

I don't think Dick Cheney gives a shit, he would kill another 4000 to make a point, as long as they aren't his family .
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 21, 2007, 10:32:13 AM
sarge i know chavez is fucked up but he is against the new world order A.K.A one world government
: Sarge The New InfoWarrior
: [Ht]LOx November 21, 2007, 02:47:11 PM

lol sarge you are beating me to the punch :) i've created a infowarrior n0ice!!!!!!1
: Charlie Rose to Karl Rove: What makes you so evil?
: [Ht]LOx November 22, 2007, 10:32:18 PM
Raw Replay
Thursday, November 22, 2007

At the end of a byzantine question on Wednesday night’s program, PBS’ Charlie Rose asks Karl Rove, “what makes you so evil?”

“Well I can’t answer that completely,” Rove replies. “I do have a theory though about the Internet. I think the Internet grants people a pseudo-anonymity that allows them to say things that they would never say to somebody in person and never put in a letter but would feel comfortable saying as accepted political discourse on the Internet, and after awhile it becomes ingrained in accepted practice.”

“It seems to go deeper,” Rose says.

“Beyond me,” Rove replies.

The following video is from PBS’s Charlie Rose, broadcast on November 21, 2007.

: Tasers a form of torture, says UN
: [Ht]LOx November 26, 2007, 01:42:20 AM
Australia Daily Telegraph
Sunday November 25, 2007

 TASER electronic stun guns are a form of torture that can kill, a UN committee has declared after several recent deaths in North America.

"The use of these weapons causes acute pain, constituting a form of torture,'' the UN's Committee against Torture said.

"In certain cases, they can even cause death, as has been shown by reliable studies and recent real-life events,'' the committee of 10 experts said.

Three men, all in their early 20s, were reported to have died in the United States this week, days after a Polish man died at Vancouver airport after being Tasered by Canadian police.

The man, Robert Dziekanski, 40, fell to the ground and died after the police officers piled on top of him.

There have been three deaths in Canada after the use of Tasers over the past five weeks.

The company that makes the weapons has said that similar deaths have been shown by "medical science and forensic analysis'' to be "attributable to other factors and not the low-energy electrical discharge of the Taser".

The UN committee made its comments in recommendations to Portugal, which has bought the newest Taser X26 stun gun for use by police.

Portugal "should consider giving up the use of the Taser X26,'' as its use can have a grave physical and mental impact on those targeted, which violates the UN's Convention against Torture, the experts said.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 28, 2007, 01:17:36 AM
Just a Friendly Reminder… Hillary Clinton is a Warmonger


: Alleged Trainer Of 9/11 Hijackers a CIA Informant
: [Ht]LOx November 28, 2007, 01:26:16 AM
Sakka attempts to plug holes in 9/11 official story, claims Hanjour did not pilot Flight 77

Prison Planet | November 27, 2007
Paul Joseph Watson


The man who claims to have trained six of the 9/11 hijackers is a paid CIA informant according to Turkish intelligence specialists, who also assert that Al-Qaeda is merely the name of a secret service operation designed to foment a strategy of tension around the world.

In a London Times report , Louai al-Sakka, now incarcerated in a high-security Turkish prison 60 miles east of Istanbul, claims that he trained six of the 9/11 hijackers at a camp in the mountains near Istanbul from 1999-2000.

Sakka was imprisoned in 2005 after being caught making bombs that he planned to use to blow up Israeli vessels.

Sakka asserts that he is a leading Al-Qaeda operative, having directed insurgency attacks in Iraq and also the beheading of Briton Kenneth Bigley in October 2004.

    Some of Sakka's account is corroborated by the US government's 9/11 Commission. It found eviden ce that four of the hijackers � whom Sakka says he trained � had initially intended to go to Chechnya from Turkey but the border into Georgia was closed. Sakka had prepared fake visas for the group's travel to Pakistan and arranged their flights from Istanbul's Ataturk airport. The group of four went to the al-Farouq camp near Kandahar and the other two to Khaldan, near Kabul, an elite camp for Al-Qaeda fighters.

    When Moqed and Suqami returned to Turkey, Sakka employed his skills as a forger to scrub out the Pakistani visa stamps from their passports. This would help the Arab men enter the United States without attracting suspicion that they had been to a training camp.

"But, as with many things in the world of Al-Qaeda, there might be smoke and mirrors," reports the Times. "Some experts believe that Sakka could be overstating his importance to the group, possibly to lay a false track for western agencies investigating his terrorist colleagues."

However, when one considers what other experts have said about Sakka, it appears that his intentions towards "western agencies" are anything but deceptive - since Turkish intelligence analysts concluded that Sakka has been a CIA asset all along.

Prominent Turkish newspaper Zaman reported that Sakka was hired as a CIA informant in 2000, after receiving a large sum of money from the agency. This would explain why he was "captured" but then released on two separate occasions by the CIA during the course of 2000.

Sakka was later captured by Turkish intelligence but again ordered to be released after which he moved to Germany to assist the alleged 9/11 hijackers.

Shortly before 9/11, Sakka was allegedly hired by Syrian intelligence - to whom he gave a warning that the attacks were coming on September 10th, 2001.

In his book At the Center of the Storm , former CIA director George Tenet writes, that �a source we were jointly running with a Middle Eastern country went to see his foreign handler and basically told him something big was about to go down.�

"This is very likely a reference to Sakra, since no one else comes close to matching the description of telling a Middle Eastern government about the 9/11 attacks one day in advance, not to mention working as an informant for the CIA at the same time. Tenet's revelation strongly supports the notion that Sakra in fact accepted the CIA's offers in 2000 and had been working with the CIA and other intelligence agencies at least through 9/11 ," writes 9/11 researcher Paul Thompson , who was also interviewed for the London Times article.

Were the alleged "interrogations" of Sakka on behalf of the CIA merely a smokescreen to enable instructions to be passed on? This is certainly the view of Turkish intelligence experts, who go further and conclude that "Al-Qaeda" as a whole is merely a front group for western intelligence agencies used to foment a "strategy of tension" around the world.

Is Sakka still in the employ of western intelligence agencies? His apparent effort to plug the holes in the official 9/11 story is fascinating.

    According to Sakka, Nawaf al-Hazmi was a veteran operative who went on to pilot the plane that hit the Pentagon. Although this is at odds with the official account, which says the plane was flown by another hijacker, it is plausible and might answer one of the mysteries of 9/11.

    The Pentagon plane performed a complex spiral dive into its target. Yet the pilot attributed with flying the plane (Hani Hanjour) �could not fly at all� according to his flight instructors in America. Hazmi, on the other hand, had mixed reviews from his instructors but they did remark on how �adept� he was on his first flight.

Exactly how "adept" one has to be to pull off maneuvers that would be impossible for veteran crack fighter pilots is not explored in the Times report.


News Links
: The Tyrany of US business
: MrMaroon5 November 30, 2007, 01:08:28 PM

Way back when, Micheal Moore was a rebel documentary film maker. He made a film about GM CEO Rodger Smith. This ass was one of the worst business influences on the US economy when it comes to eliminating the middle class and making the rich richer by-- taking the oportunity for the poor to get a decent job and get ahead by hard physical work. Rodger Smith either invented overseas outsourcing or at the very least brought into mainstream big business as a major business philosophy. Now, if you want a true American made car you need to buy a Toyota which is manfactured and assembled in the US with mostly raw American Materials.

How can an economy afford to buy foreign made products which are sold by American companies if all the decent jobs are sent away. Since the 70's we have lost a lot of manfacturing jobs. It used to be 3 out of four jobs were factory jobs now it is about 1 out of 4 with a major shift to the service industry.

Lox said his mother recently lost her job in the mortgage industry. Well, things are crap in the industry.  Here is an example how bad. We have a large annual income, in the top 95% on annual incomes. We have a positive net worth with about 25% debt to equity. Currently we have a low credit score due to CC debt. Why do we have this? Well a vacation, and me paying the minumum for a while to get some liquid for a downpayment and buying a few improvement items to finish our house for a more sellable condition. Well, so I lower my credit score 5 points below what these fuckers want to give me a bridge loan and carry 2 mortgages when we move. In perspective, 5 years ago we had 3 mortgages for a while when we moved and we made less at the time. So, you can borrow money easier when you don't need it.
: Re: The Tyrany of US business
: fade November 30, 2007, 02:35:30 PM

 We have a positive net worth with about 25% debt to equity. Currently we have a low credit score due to CC debt. Why do we have this? Well a vacation, and me paying the minumum for a while to get some liquid for a downpayment and buying a few improvement items to finish our house for a more sellable condition.

Not sure what this post is about exactly, but what? I spent the last 6 years in the finance industry as an originator and manager, I don't see what American business practicies have to do with your credit score. Especially if you're bellyaching about getting screwed on a loan. You've got no one else to blame on that one but yourself. You plugging some revolving debt into your FICO isn't going to factor in more than 30%. Maybe you were dumb and maxed out 1 card, had bad credit in the past, missed a bunch of minimum payments or combine those 3 with the fact that you're probably fairly young. Judging by the fact that you consider Michael Moore to be remotely relevant to anything - I'm gonna go with all 4.

Even if I'm wrong, what does any of that have to do with generic CEO Bob Snucklebuck? Anytime someone says the words "bridge loan" to you, punch them in the face. You're getting shitty advice from an LO that probably worked at bagging groceries before embarking on his new career. Sometimes the best advice a loan officer can give you is to hit the bricks. Stop looking at your "25% debt to equity" like its a bank account and get back to reality.

And when you say you can borrow money easier when you don't need it, well no shit. That should have been the rule 100% the entire fucking time. Some guy comes to you with 3 mortgages, up to his hilt in credit card debt and you turn around and write up a loan application for him...? The underwriter should have came back and kicked you in the balls for that, but from 2002-2005ish everyone was like OK HOORAY MONEY...and here are, knee deep in a major financial meltdown.

I think MSN came out with this article a while back about the Top 10 People to blame for the mortgage meltdown, starting with Greenspan. I almost laughed, hoping it would say, "YOU, ASSHOLE" ten times. Although, Greenspan is a douche and should probably be in jail for making beauty school dropouts top producing Loan Officers and Realtors for 3 years. 


: Re: The Tyrany of US business
: Mad November 30, 2007, 02:43:25 PM
Movin this into the tin foil hat thread.
: BREAKING Hostage situation at Clinton campaign office in NH
: [Ht]LOx November 30, 2007, 02:56:35 PM
You just know Hillary and the New World Order are going to use this to:

1.  Portray Hillary as the "savior" and portray those who oppose her as "nuts".

2.  Encourage passage of the Thought Crimes Bill; HR 1955, Senate Bill 1959

3.  Tie it in with guns, claim they're evil and encourage the Supreme Court to consider banning guns during their next ruling.

4.  Encourage Bush to sign the Law of the Sea Treaty.

5.  All of the above.

: Re: The Tyrany of US business
: MrMaroon5 November 30, 2007, 03:05:48 PM
Movin this into the tin foil hat thread.

We just need a tin-foil hat part of the board.
: Do you know these economy influences
: MrMaroon5 November 30, 2007, 05:59:59 PM
Do you know any of these people and how they influenced the US economy?

Yes, I know you are sitting in front of a computer and could look them up

Brooks Stevens
Rodger Moore
Drexel Burnham Lambert

They all had a mojor influence on the current US and even world economy.
: Re: The Tyrany of US business
: MrMaroon5 November 30, 2007, 08:38:44 PM

 We have a positive net worth with about 25% debt to equity. Currently we have a low credit score due to CC debt. Why do we have this? Well a vacation, and me paying the minumum for a while to get some liquid for a downpayment and buying a few improvement items to finish our house for a more sellable condition.

Not sure what this post is about exactly, but what? I spent the last 6 years in the finance industry as an originator and manager, I don't see what American business practicies have to do with your credit score. Especially if you're bellyaching about getting screwed on a loan. You've got no one else to blame on that one but yourself. You plugging some revolving debt into your FICO isn't going to factor in more than 30%. Maybe you were dumb and maxed out 1 card, had bad credit in the past, missed a bunch of minimum payments or combine those 3 with the fact that you're probably fairly young. Judging by the fact that you consider Michael Moore to be remotely relevant to anything - I'm gonna go with all 4.

Even if I'm wrong, what does any of that have to do with generic CEO Bob Snucklebuck? Anytime someone says the words "bridge loan" to you, punch them in the face. You're getting shitty advice from an LO that probably worked at bagging groceries before embarking on his new career. Sometimes the best advice a loan officer can give you is to hit the bricks. Stop looking at your "25% debt to equity" like its a bank account and get back to reality.

And when you say you can borrow money easier when you don't need it, well no shit. That should have been the rule 100% the entire fucking time. Some guy comes to you with 3 mortgages, up to his hilt in credit card debt and you turn around and write up a loan application for him...? The underwriter should have came back and kicked you in the balls for that, but from 2002-2005ish everyone was like OK HOORAY MONEY...and here are, knee deep in a major financial meltdown.

I think MSN came out with this article a while back about the Top 10 People to blame for the mortgage meltdown, starting with Greenspan. I almost laughed, hoping it would say, "YOU, ASSHOLE" ten times. Although, Greenspan is a douche and should probably be in jail for making beauty school dropouts top producing Loan Officers and Realtors for 3 years. 


Well, I am talking about Rodger Smith, not Micheal Moore. The only thing Micheal Moore ever did worth wild was Rodger and Me which was about Rodger Moore. He (Rodger Smith) was the one who started major job outsourcing and if you think that isn't effecting the economy, Jesus Chirist.

Also, this is exactally what I am talking about. Some bean counter in an office with his criteria thinking I can't approve this loan and it is all the bowwower's fault. WTF, I am 5 points short on a credit score from getting a jumbo loan and carrying the mortgage on my current house at the same time. Who cares if we have a large income, low debt/income ratio, a diverse portfolio with good investements, and I own several other properties. Can't overlook that 5 points on a FICA score which is influenced by maxed credit cards at 0% balance. FICA score is a joke which can be manipulated easily given a few months. Now, 5 years ago I got approved for a loan while carrying 2 mortgages on 2 other houses for sale. So, yep, things have changed for the negative. Hell, I know people with little annual inome getting approved for 120% mortgages 5 years ago. The goverment with this idealist perception that every American can own a home. Well, some people just shouldn't buy a home.

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: fade November 30, 2007, 10:58:06 PM
And this is exactly what I'm talking about, some self-entitled airhead who can barely spell and has no idea that his FICO is the best and only indication of how he pays his bills on time. Last I checked your stock portfolio didn't make that $20 Macy's payment you'll get around to paying whenever you feel like it.  I've seen doctors who foreclosed on houses because they didn't bother to pay their mortgage on time. It is your fault because a FICO score has nothing to do with how much money you have, but it is, along with payment rate, the easiest two concepts to grasp when lending someone hundreds of thousands of dollars. Self-entitled? Hell yes, its the way it has to be, and the recent financial troubles prove it.

Bad credit scores aren't to be taken lightly, and the mortgage industry, in the craze to become competitive over the subprime markets, overextended their guidelines to accommodate every Joe Blow who wanted a house. What they forgot is they just loaned a hundred thousand dollars to some guy who can't pay his Home Depot card on time. Its still a business Maroon, and over a long enough time period making all those exceptions caught up with everyone. Its bad business practice to loan someone money who does not meet the guidelines. End of story. 5 points off? Sorry, they're drawing a line somewhere.

Even then you seem really stuck on the whole 5 points thing. You're FIVE POINTS AWAY FROM THE MINIMUM on the easiest guideline to get around in lending. More than likely you didn't make enough money to make the payment, FICO isn't a problem, you can always drop into lower-tier programs, unless you're talking credit scores in the 500s, and if you're bitching about a measly 5 points when your credit is that fucked up, then I lol @ you.
: Report: Rudy has business ties to 9/11 facilitator
: [Ht]LOx November 30, 2007, 11:32:25 PM
Mike Aivaz and Jason Rhyne
Raw Story
Friday, November 30, 2007

GOP presidential hopeful Rudy Giuliani, who has made tough talk about combating Islamic terror a staple of his campaign, has had extensive business dealings with a foreign ministry helmed by a man with ties to the 9/11 attacks, according to a new report.

Giuliani Partners, a consulting firm which the former New York mayor founded after leaving in office in 2002, maintains a "cozy business relationship," with the "terrorist-tolerant" nation of Qatar, writes the Village Voice's Wayne Barrett. Barret reports that the firm's business partners in Qatar have included that country's former minister of Islamic affairs, Abdallah bin Khalid al-Thani (above right), who has been accused of helping suspected 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Muhammad evade an an FBI arrest attempt in 1996.

"In other words," writes Barrett, "as incredible as it might seem, Rudy Giuliani -- whose presidential candidacy is steeped in 9/11 iconography -- has been doing business with a government agency run by the very man who made the attacks on 9/11 possible."

Appearing on MSNBC's Countdown with Keith Olbermann, Barrett said Giuliani should have known about Qatar's ties to terrorism in 2005, when he made the country one of his "principal clients."

"He would have had to have been deaf, dumb and blind not to know it because he then in 2005 had running his security unit two of the FBI agents who had been pursuing the Qatar relationship [to terrorism]," Barrett told Olbermann. "By 2005, the United States had a very complicated relationship with Qatar. It was fully aware of its ties to international terrorism."

Barrett went on to add that Giuliani Partners' business with al-Thani and Qatar was strictly a money decision.

"I think the conundrum really for Rudy as a candidate is he parades around America as the black and white candidate who can't see any grey," he said. "And so here you have a relationship where he could see the grey because there was so much gold involved."

Detailing al-Thani's role in purportedly aiding and abetting Khalid Sheikh Muhammad, Barret says in the Voice that al-Thani helped the suspected terrorist to flee Qatar. Al-Thani also "remains a named defendant in the 9/11 lawsuits that are still proceeding in Manhattan federal court," he adds.

Barret writes that the reality of Giuliani's association with Qatar is "inconsistent with the core message of Giuliani's current presidential campaign, namely that his experience and toughness uniquely equip him to protect America from what he tauntingly calls 'Islamic terrorists' -- an enemy that he always portrays himself as ready to confront, and the Democrats as ready to accommodate."

Barrett's report was published a day before a much-discussed story broken by Politico's Ben Smith, which accused Giuliani of obscuring security expenses to disguise an extra-marital affair during his time as New York mayor. Although that story has been picked up by an array of news outlets, the Barrett piece has received a tamer reception thus far in the mainstream press.

Nevertheless, Olbermann called Barett's story a "startling and potentially ruinous revelation," and said of Giuliani, "The 'war on terror candidate' -- looking tonight a lot more like the 'ties to terror' candidate."

Barrett is the co-author of Grand Illusion: The Untold Story of 9/11, which takes a critical look at Giuliani's role "before, during, and after" the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

The following video is from MSNBC’s COUNTDOWN with Keith Olbermann, broadcast on November 28, 2007<---giuliani is total fucking scum i told you fools that.

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 December 01, 2007, 10:58:22 AM

Its still a business Maroon, and over a long enough time period making all those exceptions caught up with everyone. Its bad business practice to loan someone money who does not meet the guidelines. End of story. 5 points off? Sorry, they're drawing a line somewhere.

That was my whole point. The fucked up decisions in the past has stopped any rational thought outside the box to make exceptions. With all these sub-prime programs and the goverment pushing every joe-blow into homeownership it has all blew up. And, the people who should get loans can't when they need them. My wife got a new job with a whopping salary increase so we need to move now. If it was any other time of the year this wouldn't be a problem. Also, if my home was sold I could practically pay off the other house. Since I take advantage of 0% introductory offers on credit cards for property investments that has lowered my FICO score a little. A FICO score is so easy to manipulate if you have a little time. The lender even reiterated that. Pay off these small debt cards and don't use them, get these two cards below 50% limit by transfers or paying them off and you score will be fine. No, my score isn't in the 500 either. In the past, forclosure was a profit maker for mortgage companies due to the booming housing market. Now, it is a huge liability. One suburb by where we are moving has killer deals on homes. We won't live there because it might turn into a slum very fast. It was overbuilt in the last 5 years and now is full of spec homes and forclosures selling for 40% less and sometimes more.

It is a business and being in that business and seeing all the shit catch up with us aren't you worried about anything? Also, I am not but the best speller but I have a good comprehention which it seems you lacked when reading my first post. Rodger Smith was a major influence on the collapse and rearrangement of our economy. Even if people don't know who he is and when he was GMs CEO, the concpet of the outsourcing of jobs is the major concept. Also, my first post was mostly drunken ramblings even though some of the concpets belong in thin tin-foil hat thread. Rodger Smith just died and that was making front page news for a fleeting second.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 December 01, 2007, 08:58:26 PM
Paulson Works With Industry on Loan Plan

The major thrust of the proposal would be to get lenders to extend for a number of years the lower, introductory rates that were offered on subprime mortgages, loans usually offered to borrowers with weak credit histories. An estimated 2 million of those initial ``teaser'' rates are scheduled to reset to much higher levels by the end of next year, pushing the payment on a typical mortgage from $1,200 per month to $1,550, an increase of $350. The concern is that many homeowners will not be able to meet the higher payments, triggering hundreds of thousands of defaults.

Here the goverment goes again helping the people who shouldn't be in a house and fucking the market even more. This nasty shit justs needs to run its course and get finished.
Who's fault is it I have a temporary low credit score? Mine. But the fact now underwriters can't even think a little outside the box to allow people with high equity and net worth is just fucked up and caused by some of this goverment bailouts and lending practices.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD December 01, 2007, 10:31:33 PM
Paulson Works With Industry on Loan Plan

The major thrust of the proposal would be to get lenders to extend for a number of years the lower, introductory rates that were offered on subprime mortgages, loans usually offered to borrowers with weak credit histories. An estimated 2 million of those initial ``teaser'' rates are scheduled to reset to much higher levels by the end of next year, pushing the payment on a typical mortgage from $1,200 per month to $1,550, an increase of $350. The concern is that many homeowners will not be able to meet the higher payments, triggering hundreds of thousands of defaults.

Here the goverment goes again helping the people who shouldn't be in a house and fucking the market even more. This nasty shit justs needs to run its course and get finished.
Who's fault is it I have a temporary low credit score? Mine. But the fact now underwriters can't even think a little outside the box to allow people with high equity and net worth is just fucked up and caused by some of this goverment bailouts and lending practices.

this is going to cause a shit storm on wall street.

the deal with these mortgages is that they get bundled and sold as investments to large banks and investors with the idea that the pay off comes when the interest rates jump up and the investment pays off,its the reason Citi bank almost hit the wall last week before the investment of $11b by an arab investment group, there are large european banks that have taken as much as a $24b hits to the bottom line in the last couple of weeks,there are some wild accounting rules that apply to reporting these losses(like if the bank/brokerage house doesn't hold over 50% then it doesn't have to be reported)in the US that don't apply in europe.
these investment vehs are the reason you have seen some of the largest investment brokerage houses in the game show major losses.

You keep blaming the Govt. for this shit and thats not where the blame lays(sp),

reason number one  was the fall of the stock market right after 9/11 and  middle class ppl panicked and cashed out their retirement funds and started trying to put their money in real estate which drove up the price of a house,in vegas alone the price of a house increased by as much as 40/50% in a matter of one year.the ppl that got in early and got out quick did great but the one that showed up late to the party are now holding paper on two+ houses and no one is buying anymore.

reason number two was that ppl saw that they could buy more house that they could afford by taking out an ARM and pay that low rate and hope that the interest rates would stay low and they would be fine but we can all read the newspaper see how that plan fell flat on its face.

all you have to do is look at your cable tv guide, take a look at how many shows there are with flip and house in the title,ppl thought it was easy money and got greedy,now construction of new houses is in the shitter across the counrty and major builders in vegas are knocking 50k% off the price of a house even before you make the first offer,two years ago the builders would have to hold drawings for ppl to pull numbers to get the opportunity to bid on houses not even built yet, we would see these fucking idiots lined up in front of the sales offices for two days before the drawing was scheduled to be held,these ppl were so sure they were going to strike it rich in real estate,the joke being that the builders were the ones that got rich selling houses that were going for $180K in 2003 for $400k in 2005/6

now this is just in vegas but the same pattern happened in So Cal/No Cal,Arizona and numerous places all over the country.

it wasn't the Govt. that did this, it was pure greed that drove this shit,the sad part is that ppl want the govt to bail all these assholes out.

another big problem was that ppl that didn't sell or buy houses in that period figured out that they had all this new equity on paper so they went out and took seconds or refinanced their houses to take out the cash and now have to pay that loan payment for a house that if they sold it now wouldn't even cover the pay off of the mortgage so they are fucked too.

its all about greed
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 December 02, 2007, 11:27:00 AM
Yeah, Sarge I have stated a few of those items before. And I agree with it all. I am not solely blaming the goverment. The speculation market is largely to blame like you examples in Vegas. Also, Flordia is a good example too concerning Condos. There are foundations poured on which it will be a long time before buildings will ever be built.

The goverment is slightly to blame for the push to get people in homes that really couldn't afford them. With the 120% finance programs and the goverment subsidaries on loans for downpayments.

The overpaying and overimproving is very evident even in my neighborhood. There are ranches selling for not much less than my home due to overimproving and overpaying. Now these people are stuck. My home is overimproved too but luckily I have done 95% of the labor myself in the basement finishing, landscaping, and room addition. I will get my material costs but I will never see penny one for my labor. It realy isn't a big deal since what I am buying on the other end is going for so cheap. Also, I only owe about 20% of my homes value so I can come way down just to get out. There are people who owe more than their house is worth due to equity out loans and they are just stuck.

I think the goverment is slightly to blame. Greed, overbuilding, overinvestemnt in the spec market, etc. is the key factor. A problem with goverment bailouts is that it creates a false market. It is similiar to the big stocks on the dot coms. There was no real tangibles in that business but it was worth a lot.
: US says it has right to kidnap British citizens
: [Ht]LOx December 02, 2007, 11:29:52 PM
David Leppard
London Times
Sunday December 2, 2007

AMERICA has told Britain that it can “kidnap” British citizens if they are wanted for crimes in the United States.

A senior lawyer for the American government has told the Court of Appeal in London that kidnapping foreign citizens is permissible under American law because the US Supreme Court has sanctioned it.

The admission will alarm the British business community after the case of the so-called NatWest Three, bankers who were extradited to America on fraud charges. More than a dozen other British executives, including senior managers at British Airways and BAE Systems, are under investigation by the US authorities and could face criminal charges in America.

Until now it was commonly assumed that US law permitted kidnapping only in the “extraordinary rendition” of terrorist suspects.

The American government has for the first time made it clear in a British court that the law applies to anyone, British or otherwise, suspected of a crime by Washington.

Legal experts confirmed this weekend that America viewed extradition as just one way of getting foreign suspects back to face trial. Rendition, or kidnapping, dates back to 19th-century bounty hunting and Washington believes it is still legitimate.

The US government’s view emerged during a hearing involving Stanley Tollman, a former director of Chelsea football club and a friend of Baroness Thatcher, and his wife Beatrice.

The Tollmans, who control the Red Carnation hotel group and are resident in London, are wanted in America for bank fraud and tax evasion. They have been fighting extradition through the British courts.

During a hearing last month Lord Justice Moses, one of the Court of Appeal judges, asked Alun Jones QC, representing the US government, about its treatment of Gavin, Tollman’s nephew. Gavin Tollman was the subject of an attempted abduction during a visit to Canada in 2005.

News Link
: Ex-Italian President: Intel Agencies Know 9/11 An Inside Job
: [Ht]LOx December 04, 2007, 03:20:55 PM
Man who set up Operation Gladio tells Italy's largest newspaper attacks were run by CIA, Mossad

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Tuesday, December 4, 2007

Former Italian President and the man who revealed the existence of Operation Gladio Francesco Cossiga has gone public on 9/11, telling Italy's most respected newspaper that the attacks were run by the CIA and Mossad and that this was common knowledge amongst global intelligence agencies.

Cossiga was elected President of the Italian Senate in July 1983 before winning a landslide 1985 election to become President of the country in 1985.

Cossiga gained respect from opposition parties as one of a rare breed - an honest politician - and led the country for seven years until April 1992.

Cossiga's tendency to be outspoken upset the Italian political establishment and he was forced to resign after revealing the existence of, and his part in setting up, Operation Gladio - a rogue intelligence network under NATO auspices that carried out bombings across Europe in the 60's, 70's and 80's.

 Gladio's specialty was to carry out what they coined "false flag operations," terror attacks that were blamed on their domestic and geopolitical opposition.

Cossiga's revelations contributed to an Italian parliamentary investigation of Gladio in 2000, during which evidence was unearthed that the attacks were being overseen by the U.S. intelligence apparatus.

In March 2001, Gladio agent Vincenzo Vinciguerra stated, in sworn testimony, "You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple: to force ... the public to turn to the state to ask for greater security."

Cossiga's new revelations appeared last week in Italy's oldest and most widely read newspaper, Corriere della Sera. Below appears a rough translation.

    "[Bin Laden supposedly confessed] to the Qaeda September [attack] to the two towers in New York [claiming to be] the author of the attack of the 11, while all the [intelligence services] of America and Europe ... now know well that the disastrous attack has been planned and realized from the CIA American and the Mossad with the aid of the Zionist world in order to put under accusation the Arabic Countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part ... in Iraq [and] Afghanistan."

Cossiga first expressed his doubts about 9/11 in 2001, and is quoted in Webster Tarpley's book as stating that "The mastermind of the attack must have been a “sophisticated mind, provided with ample means not only to recruit fanatic kamikazes, but also highly specialized personnel. I add one thing: it could not be accomplished without infiltrations in the radar and flight security personnel.”

Coming from a widely respected former head of state, Cossiga's assertion that the 9/11 attacks were an inside job and that this is common knowledge amongst global intelligence agencies is highly unlikely to be mentioned by any establishment media outlets, because like the hundreds of other sober ex-government, military, air force professionals, allied to hundreds more professors and intellectuals - he can't be sidelined as a crackpot conspiracy theorist.

News Links
: US Navy's swastika-shaped barracks to get a make-over after Google Earth spot
: [Ht]LOx December 06, 2007, 05:14:58 PM
not much in the news to day and i always thought this shit was odd


The Navy came to realize that this is a symbol that thousands of people died to defeat and it was inappropriate to have that shape on a military base," said Morris Casuto, regional director of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) which campaigned for modifications to the building.

After nine months of talks with the ADL, Casuto said the the Navy told him this week it would spend £300,000 on landscaping and architectural changes that would obscure the swastika shape from the air.

The Navy has said the buildings, which serves barracks for the Seabees, were constructed in the late 1960s and were not intended to resemble the Nazi symbol.

But that has done nothing to silence theories circling the internet in the past two years.

One suggests they were built by German prisoners of war who slipped the layout past the Navy.


Another hypothesis suggests the shape was intended to help the buildings survive bombing formations used by the Japanese navy.

Casuto said talks with the Navy were amicable and that no lawsuits were ever threatened.

"We didn't enter this minor controversy presuming there was any evil intent on the part of anyone.

"We understood this was not the number one priority of a nation at war. The Navy decided on their own it was the right thing to do," Casuto said.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: nadir December 07, 2007, 05:41:42 PM
Add to the fact that if you draw lines from the points in the Pentagon across each other you get a Pentagram which shows the military is really a Satan worshipping cult that sacrifices people in Iraq and Afghanistan and the President is the head of the cult. After all he is part of the cult called Skull and Bones. It is all kept hush, hush  under the disguise of the Global War on Terror.


If you take the NE point, it points directly at the White House.  You can even see nested Pentagrams as well making the Pentagon even more Satanic than any other building in the world.

As for the Swastika deal, the navajo are also party to the Nazi party.  look at the image of Navajo rugs for sale in this image.
it is also a very common symbol in India and in Ancient Rome design.   Really the US Navy are only just getting on the anti-semitic bandwagon.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx December 10, 2007, 01:04:38 PM
Many Pakistanis believe Osama is CIA agent working for US (Good Morning America)

9/11 1WTC North Tower vs. Controlled Demolition<---great fucking video of close ups

WTC7 vs. Controlled Demolition <---another great one these are new i think

Don Henley Inside Job Song <---to download it's only 6mb so don't cry :)

: White House goes mum on CIA video case
: [Ht]LOx December 11, 2007, 05:07:13 AM
Monday December 10, 2007

 The White House said Monday it would not answer questions about the CIA's destroying interrogation tapes of terrorism suspects, citing ongoing investigations into what some have called a cover-up.

Spokesman Dana Perino said that US President George W. Bush's official lawyer had requested a no-comment policy while the US Justice Department and Central Intelligence Agency looked into the simmering controversy.

"Until that process works itself out, I'm going to adhere to their request," she told reporters. "I think that that's appropriate, and I'll adhere to it."

When a reporter noted that the White House has similarly stonewalled questions about other potentially embarrassing issues, and suggested that such a policy was politically expedient, Perino bristled.

"I can see why that cynicism that usually drifts from this room could come up in this regard. What I can tell you is that I try my best to get you as much information as I can, and in this regard I've been asked by our Counsel's office not to comment, and I'm not going to," she said.

But she repeated that Bush had no recollection of being told about the tapes or about their destruction in 2005 until briefed last week following media reports.

Some of Bush's Democratic critics and human rights groups have denounced the decision as an attempt to cover up interrogation practices widely seen as torture -- despite Washington's insistence that it does not torture.

The videotapes, made in 2002, reportedly showed harsh interrogations of Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, who were among the first suspects interrogated by the CIA after the September 11, 2001 attacks.

CIA director Michael Hayden, who was not leading the agency when the tapes were destroyed, has said that doing so was necessary to avoid having the recordings leak to the public, revealing the identity of CIA questioners.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx December 11, 2007, 11:44:17 PM
nice song
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 December 12, 2007, 02:53:51 PM
The Amero

I know that Lox has posted about a one world currency. It appears that there is speculation about a transition from about 6 currencies to the one world money. The Euro was creepy enough, if the Amero actually happens, I think I will start believing everything Lox tells me.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare December 12, 2007, 03:16:43 PM
doubt it'll happen, they've been tossing that idea of "one continent, one currency" bullshit for years.  i imagine the only ones that seriously push that stuff are these damn lobbyists funded by that leech of a nation south of the Rio.  i guess they forgot that most of us know how badly nafta fell on its face.

as much as mexico thinks it's entitled to welfare from us and canada to raise their standard of living, that just isn't going to happen.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD December 12, 2007, 05:24:31 PM
wow, you sound like Newsweek last when they called Ron Paul paraniod about the nafta highway and that it would never happen which is pretty funny considering that the Canadiens have govt web sites up with the maps of those highways running through the USA and you have states setting up ports in cites like Kansas City to handle the freight.

the border check points have been told to fast track trucks across the border,to not investigate who is in the cab ,just check the driver and send it through.

these assholes have sold us down the river and one currency would not shock me one bit.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare December 12, 2007, 07:13:36 PM
nafta is a load of crap, it was from the beginning.  but what you're talking about there is simply getting rid of tariffs and import/export restrictions (i'm not even going to get into the benefits v. problems and security issues there).  chopping restrictions away, that's relatively easy to do.  switching currencies isn't, especially when you've got 2 of the 3 potential players being fairly similar, but the third is nothing more than excess baggage.

the dollar is the standard for most global commodity exchanges not to mention you've got about 60% of hard US currency circulating overseas, plus it's the secondary currency of many nations.  in a lot of ways it's the global standard.  to say it's suddenly worthless and replaced by some pan-north american currency would cause an unimaginable economic mess.  that's the reason why arabs told Hugo C. to shove it when he approached them with the idea of going away from US dollars.  we don't want to move away from it, and neither would most of the rest of the world. 

europe switched to the euro because in the long run it was of economic benefit to have a standardized currency for all those tiny little countries, each with their own currency, mini economies, and very loose borders to begin with.  here there would be no such benefit.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 December 12, 2007, 11:17:35 PM
wow, you sound like Newsweek last when they called Ron Paul paraniod about the nafta highway and that it would never happen which is pretty funny considering that the Canadiens have govt web sites up with the maps of those highways running through the USA and you have states setting up ports in cites like Kansas City to handle the freight.

the border check points have been told to fast track trucks across the border,to not investigate who is in the cab ,just check the driver and send it through.

these assholes have sold us down the river and one currency would not shock me one bit.

It is scarry but I don't think there is enough in power that would agree to do it yet.
What is scarry about the Amero is that is already being minted. There are businessmen and goverment officials that would love it to become a real currency.
To give the funny-money Amero value it is being printed on precious metals (gold, silver, copper, etc).
The point is that somebody took the time to design and mint this coin. Also, it is avaible for order at not much more than the precious metal price.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: hare December 13, 2007, 01:04:47 AM
i remember seeing a picture of one of those coins, but it turns out that they were nothing more than collectibles manufactured by a commercial company, but it still sent the rumor-mill/conspiracy buffs into a frenzy.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx December 15, 2007, 09:32:57 AM

Estulin: Elitists Consider Assassinating Ron Paul

Best-selling author and Bilderberg sleuth says intelligence sources told him highest levels of U.S. government discussing what result would be if Congressman was killed

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Friday, December 14, 2007

Best-selling author and Bilderberg sleuth Daniel Estulin says he has received information from sources inside the U.S. intelligence community which suggests that people from the highest levels of the U.S. government are considering an assassination attempt against Congressman Ron Paul because they are threatened by his burgeoning popularity.

Estulin, whose information has unfortunately proven very accurate in the past, went public with the bombshell news during an appearance on The Alex Jones Show today.

"I am getting information from my sources that there are people involved from a higher level of the American establishment who are seriously considering - this has not been confirmed - but assassination is definitely on the agenda and I pray to God that this is not the case," said Estulin.

Estulin, an award winning investigative journalist, said that he was given the information from a source that has been reliable for over a decade in providing accurate projections of future events based on what the elite were discussing in their own circles and that assassination was a serious option should the Ron Paul Revolution continue to pick up steam.

Estulin, author of the global bestseller The True Story of the Bilderberg Group described the concept as a "trial balloon from the inner core within the inner core - it hasn't gone beyond that but it is obviously on the table because I think needless to say they are very much concerned," he added.

Best-selling author and award winning investigative journalist Daniel Estulin.

Ron Paul himself has stated on a previous occasion that he is aware of the dangers of being such a bold icon for freedom and understands that political assassinations have occured in the past.

In a June appearance on The Alex Jones Show, Congressman Paul acknowledged that such a threat is "real," agreeing with a number of historical examples where leaders were killed or attacked for successfully standing up to the system. "That's right. They'll do it," Paul said, making reference with Alex Jones to upstarts like Andrew Jackson, "The Kingfish" Huey Long, Bobby Kennedy, George Washington and even George Wallace.

Estulin pointed out that his past predictions about global events were very accurate because of the solid information provided to him from within Bilderberg and the elite. Over 18 months ago Estulin correctly made the call that the Iran war had been delayed and was probably off the table, which is looking to be exactly the case after the release of the recent National Intelligence Estimate. Estulin in featured at length in Alex Jones' film Endgame, in which he is also filmed making the prediction based on his sources.

Estulin said his sources were from within the intelligence community and they were telling him that "the people of the highest levels of government - not related in any way at least visually to George W. Bush - the first initial conversation of what might happen if we were to do this," has taken place.

"The Ron Paul phenomenon has galvanized an entire nation," said Estulin, adding that both the people who discovered the plot and its potential protagonists are terrified at the consequences of what such an action will be because of the difficulty in judging just how severely the general public will react.

Estulin said that the conspirators, which he described as a "small circle of intimates," were discussing what the effect would be if Congressman Paul was "removed" - they are being very careful to use the word "remove" rather than more volatile terms, but Estulin was told directly that "remove" was a euphemism for assassinate.

Estulin said he may be able to be more specific on exactly who is discussing such an action in future, but warned that Ron Paul's staff should be aware of the issue.

Click here to listen to the MP3 interview with Daniel Estulin.

New Links

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD December 15, 2007, 09:53:29 AM
I do remember when Perot was running for president the first time and he came on the news saying that bugs were found in his campaign offices and the media made him look like an idiot for saying that.

the idea that the Bush ppl would bug another canidate's offices is not that crazy,especially when you take into accout the fact that Bush ran the CIA for years and knew all about ppl being bugged.

we will know if Paul getting whacked if its a lone gunman that pulls something beyond his skill set,thats always the give away in these sort of deals.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 December 15, 2007, 02:57:38 PM
I do remember when Perot was running for president the first time and he came on the news saying that bugs were found in his campaign offices and the media made him look like an idiot for saying that.

the idea that the Bush ppl would bug another canidate's offices is not that crazy,especially when you take into accout the fact that Bush ran the CIA for years and knew all about ppl being bugged.

we will know if Paul getting whacked if its a lone gunman that pulls something beyond his skill set,thats always the give away in these sort of deals.

Watergate? This crap goes on all the time. Lox keeps saying that 911 was an inside job, which I have always had an open mind and don't beleive that it is impossible. I just don't think there has been any good proof put out on the subject yet. And if there has, it is jaded by the other crazy shit that is spewed right after that proof that just discredits that person anyway.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx December 16, 2007, 03:37:16 AM
lol. how much proof do you need you have like 300+ professionals ie. police and firemen saying bombs were going off. noway you can tell me that the "so called" high jackers set off bombs before and after they were dead and then blow up wtc 7 after they were with allah
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 December 16, 2007, 11:25:33 AM
lol. how much proof do you need you have like 300+ professionals ie. police and firemen saying bombs were going off. noway you can tell me that the "so called" high jackers set off bombs before and after they were dead and then blow up wtc 7 after they were with allah

I have neve heard anybody say they "heard a bomb." I have heard people say they heard loud noises that sounded like bombs. Deforming steel and collapsing buildings sound very loud. Also, they heard the noises on impact not before collapse. So, what caused that final suppord to fail if the plane had nothng to do with the building failure?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx December 16, 2007, 11:08:44 PM
here you go maroon william rodriguez and anthony saltalamacia <-----abc editing his story <---- on fox
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx December 17, 2007, 06:31:31 AM
why i love ron paul <----how can you not vote for him


: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 December 17, 2007, 11:21:07 AM
why i love ron paul <----how can you not vote for him



Ok, Lox how old are you? The reason I ask is because when I was first old enough to vote, I voted for Ross Pero. Why? Well, I ask myself that sometimes now. But, at the time, a filthy Rich guy who wanted to run America more like a business that needs to make profit and benifit it stockholders seemed like a good idea. Well, he had no hope in hell of winning because he had no party backing. It is like I vote against somebody instead of for somebody.

It would be nice if he had a hope in hell of winning but I doubt it. But, I still might vote for him anyways.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD December 17, 2007, 11:40:43 PM
Paul is picking up some GOP love
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx December 18, 2007, 05:47:12 AM
SS Agents Confront We Are Change Activist after Clinton Confrontation

Kurt Nimmo
Monday December 17, 2007

We Are Change Philly is reporting today that Temple University student Nick Carangi, founder of Philly911Truth, was visited by the Secret Service after he confronted the Bilderberg selected president, Bill Clinton, at a Hillary fund raiser. “Two agents questioned Nick about the confrontation and his participation at the Drexel Debate. They asked him if he would use violence” to defend the Constitution, according to the main We Are Change website. Carangi responded by stating that he never considered using violence.

SS agents Charles Holiday and Timothy O’Conner grilled “Nick on his recent activities,” including videos he has produced and “implied that his future professional career could be effected as his mother listened in disbelief in the same room.” Of course, confronting activists in a family setting is a common enough intimidation tactic used for decades by the Secret Service, the FBI, and local police in order to chill free speech and squash political activism.

On the Alex Jones radio show this afternoon, Carangi described how the SS visited him at his mother’s home after he shook hands with Clinton and asked the former president about his Bilderberg and New World Order connections. “How dare you,” Carangi had mocked Clinton, a reference to Clinton’s response to a previous demand at a public appearance by We Are Change that the events of September 11, 2001, be investigated.

In addition to attempting to embarrass activists before family members and threaten to destroy their careers, COINTELPRO tactics directed against “domestic enemies” have ranged from the “trivial to the life endangering,” including the promotion of “factionalization within groups and between groups,” the “dissemination of propaganda,” the use of “federal, state, and local agencies in selective law enforcement” and “other use (and abuse) of government processes,” the dissemination of “derogatory information to family, friends, and associates; contacting employers,” as in the case of Nick Carangi. According to the final report issued by the Church Committee in 1976, this latter technique is particularly effective and “distressing.”

“Nick, a senior sociology major, was left feeling bewildered that exercising his constitutional rights could warrant this type of treatment,” We Are Change concludes. “What constitutes a threat to a former president? Questions about Bilderberger involvement evidently.”

Indeed, simply asking questions outside of the narrow, politically correct parameters established by our rulers is considered treason, as Mr. Carangi discovered. In the days ahead, as more people wake up and begin ask questions of their appointed rulers and their selected minions such as Bill and Hillary Clinton, we should expect more such intimidation techniques to be employed.

News Links
: Crisis may make 1929 look a 'walk in the park'
: [Ht]LOx December 26, 2007, 12:43:23 AM
Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
London Telegraph
Monday, December 24, 2007

As central banks continue to splash their cash over the system, so far to little effect, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard argues things are rapidly spiralling out of their control

Twenty billion dollars here, $20bn there, and a lush half-trillion from the European Central Bank at give-away rates for Christmas. Buckets of liquidity are being splashed over the North Atlantic banking system, so far with meagre or fleeting effects.

As the credit paralysis stretches through its fifth month, a chorus of economists has begun to warn that the world's central banks are fighting the wrong war, and perhaps risk a policy error of epochal proportions.

"Liquidity doesn't do anything in this situation," says Anna Schwartz, the doyenne of US monetarism and life-time student (with Milton Friedman) of the Great Depression.

"It cannot deal with the underlying fear that lots of firms are going bankrupt. The banks and the hedge funds have not fully acknowledged who is in trouble. That is the critical issue," she adds.

Lenders are hoarding the cash, shunning peers as if all were sub-prime lepers. Spreads on three-month Euribor and Libor - the interbank rates used to price contracts and Club Med mortgages - are stuck at 80 basis points even after the latest blitz. The monetary screw has tightened by default.

York professor Peter Spencer, chief economist for the ITEM Club, says the global authorities have just weeks to get this right, or trigger disaster.

advertisement"The central banks are rapidly losing control. By not cutting interest rates nearly far enough or fast enough, they are allowing the money markets to dictate policy. We are long past worrying about moral hazard," he says.

"They still have another couple of months before this starts imploding. Things are very unstable and can move incredibly fast. I don't think the central banks are going to make a major policy error, but if they do, this could make 1929 look like a walk in the park," he adds.

The Bank of England knows the risk. Markets director Paul Tucker says the crisis has moved beyond the collapse of mortgage securities, and is now eating into the bedrock of banking capital. "We must try to avoid the vicious circle in which tighter liquidity conditions, lower asset values, impaired capital resources, reduced credit supply, and slower aggregate demand feed back on each other," he says.

New York's Federal Reserve chief Tim Geithner echoed the words, warning of an "adverse self-reinforcing dynamic", banker-speak for a downward spiral. The Fed has broken decades of practice by inviting all US depositary banks to its lending window, bringing dodgy mortgage securities as collateral.

Quietly, insiders are perusing an obscure paper by Fed staffers David Small and Jim Clouse. It explores what can be done under the Federal Reserve Act when all else fails.

Section 13 (3) allows the Fed to take emergency action when banks become "unwilling or very reluctant to provide credit". A vote by five governors can - in "exigent circumstances" - authorise the bank to lend money to anybody, and take upon itself the credit risk. This clause has not been evoked since the Slump.

Yet still the central banks shrink from seriously grasping the rate-cut nettle. Understandably so. They are caught between the Scylla of the debt crunch and the Charybdis of inflation. It is not yet certain which is the more powerful force.

America's headline CPI screamed to 4.3 per cent in November. This may be a rogue figure, the tail effects of an oil, commodity, and food price spike. If so, the Fed missed its chance months ago to prepare the markets for such a case. It is now stymied.

This has eerie echoes of Japan in late-1990, when inflation rose to 4 per cent on a mini price-surge across Asia. As the Bank of Japan fretted about an inflation scare, the country's financial system tipped into the abyss.

See Maroon This Is What They Have To Do First To Bring In The Amero And Get The North American Union Going.

News Link

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx December 27, 2007, 03:17:11 PM
I Haven't Posted In A While So Here Is Some Of The Stuff Going On

We Are Change Busting Media Ass And Taking Names



George Bush Jr. A Skull & Bones and Apron Wearing Freemasons in Texas 2000 - YOUR LOVING GOVERMENT

Chicago Tourists and Photographers Now Considered al-Qaeda

haha read whats on the list total police state incoming with maxes and bfr's

American Conservative magazine Cover

Rockefellers "Joked" About Controlling The World
: BBC Censored Benazir Bhutto's Reports that Bin Laden Had Been Murdered
: [Ht]LOx December 31, 2007, 12:38:11 PM
Existentialist Cowboy Blog
Monday, December 31, 2007

When a news organization as venerable as the BBC censors the reportage of a story as important as the assassination of Benzir Bhutto --a highly visible critic of Bush/British policy with regard to the "War on Terrorism" et al --it is fair to ask: who is the BBC protecting? Are they covering up the motive for her murder? Are they protecting the regimes that engineered her assassination?

Here is the original, unedited version in which Bhutto states that Bin Laden had been murdered.

Here is the BBC's Censored version.
: Those Involved in Population Control
: [Ht]LOx January 01, 2008, 11:45:54 PM
 Brent Jessop
Knowledge Driven
Tuesday, January 1, 2008

    "In the eight years that I have been a part-time propagandist, I have found that many people in influential positions share my concern. I have had encouraging letters from all over the world. People in radio and television have been extremely helpful in providing exposure for the issues." - Paul Ehrlich, 1968 (p159)

Paul Ehrlich's book The Population Bomb* describes a variety of different ways to reduce the population of the world. This includes, among other things; financial incentives, manipulative sex education, forced vasectomies for every man with more than three children, and adding sterilants to the water supply or food staples.

But Ehrlich is only one man, albeit a well connected Stanford University professor, but still just an individual. Who else is involved in these types of population control schemes?

United States Government

    "In late 1970. Congress finally placed the Family Planning Services and Population Research Act to provide free contraception to the poor through non-profit agencies. It also established an Office of Population Affairs in the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare to sponsor further research on birth control." - 85

    "Beginning with Senators Ernest Gruening and Joseph Clark in the middle 1960s, there has been a small group of dedicated people in Congress who have been trying to get the government to move on these matters. More recently, the ball has been carried by Senators Joseph Tydings and Robert Packwood, and Representatives Paul McCloskey, George Bush, and James Scheuer." [emphasis mine] - 86

    "Despite repeated statements of concern since 1965 by President's Johnson and Nixon..." - 85

(Article continues below)

United Nations and Co.

    "The United Nations has greatly increased its family planning activities, operation through several agencies including WHO [World Health Organization], UNICEF, and UNESCO [United Nations Education, Scientific, and Cultural Organization]. Secretary Generat U Thant has been urged by a study group to establish a special "world population institute" promptly to take practical action against population growth. Robert McNamara, president of the World Bank, has put population projects high on the Bank's list of priorities. The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) is also getting into the field." - 84


    "In March 1970, a two-year Commission on Population Growth and the American Future was established under the chairmanship of John D. Rockefeller, III."

    "Aside from government contributions, private foundations such as Ford and Rockefeller are becoming more involved in programs, both for research and overseas family planning projects." - 86

Zero Population Growth

    "But a new organization exists - Zero Population Growth - whose mission is to educate the public and politicians to the necessity for stopping population growth as soon as possible, to lobby for legislation, and to work for politicians who support the same goals. ZPG now has more than 30,000 members and is growing fast. Hopefully it will have developed some real political clout by 1972." - 88

Ehrlich forgets to mention in his book that he founded Zero Population Growth with Richard Bowers and Charles Remington. This organization is still going strong under a new name: Population Connection.


Ehrlich, a self proclaimed propagandist, also believes that his fellow scientists, namely biologists, should be much more involved in the "education" of the masses.

    "Biologists must promote understanding of the facts of reproductive biology which relate to matters of abortion and contraception. They must do more than simply reiterate the facts of population dynamics. They must point out the biological absurdity of equating a zygote (the cell created by joining of sperm and egg) or fetus (unborn child) with a human being... People are people because of the interaction of genetic information (stored in a chemical language) with an environment. Clearly, the most "humanizing" element of that environment is the cultural element to which the child is not exposed until after birth... in many cases abortion is more desirable than childbirth." - 138

Environmental Groups

The interconnectedness of the environmental movement and the population control fanatics is undeniable and I will examine some of the similarities between The Population Bomb and Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth in the next article of this series. But for now, some of the more obvious environmental connections.

The forward to the The Population Bomb was written by David Brower, the founder of Sierra Club Foundation, the John Muir Institute for Environmental Studies, Friends of the Earth, the League of Conservation Voters, Earth Island Institute (1982), North Cascades Conservation Council, and Fate of the Earth Conferences.

Also The Population Bomb was published by Sierra Club Books.

Ehrlich has also been well rewarded by both the scientific and the environmental community. From his University of Stanford profile:

    Professor Ehrlich is a fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and the American Philosophical Society, and a member of the National Academy of Sciences. Professor Ehrlich has received several honorary degrees, the John Muir Award of the Sierra Club, the Gold Medal Award of the World Wildlife Fund International, a MacArthur Prize Fellowship, the Crafoord Prize of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences (given in lieu of a Nobel Prize in areas where the Nobel is not given), in 1993 the Volvo Environmental Prize, in 1994 the United Nations' Sasakawa Environment Prize, in 1995 the Heinz Award for the Environment, in 1998 the Tyler Prize for Environmental Achievement and the Dr. A. H. Heineken Prize for Environmental Sciences, in 1999 the Blue Planet Prize, in 2001 the Eminent Ecologist Award of the Ecological Society of America and the Distinguished Scientist Award of the American Institute of Biological Sciences.

*Quotes from: Paul R. Ehrlich. The Population Bomb: Revised & Expanded Edition (1968, 1971). SBN 345-24489-3-150.

Check Out These Links

News Links
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Mad January 02, 2008, 05:18:48 PM
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD January 05, 2008, 11:21:29 AM



Mexican trucks defy Congress, still roll
Bill cuts off funds, but Bush insists program can continue

Posted: January 5, 2008
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2008

A constitutional crisis is developing between Congress and the Department of Transportation over the federal government's decision to continue its project allowing Mexican trucks on U.S. roads, in defiance of new legislation.
"The DOT response is both arrogant and wrong!" Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., wrote in a letter yesterday to Secretary of Transportation Mary Peters.

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration officials told the San Diego Union Tribune the cross-border Mexican truck demonstration project would continue because the program was established in September and the amendment allows programs that have already begun to continue.

But Dorgan insisted a provision in the 2008 omnibus spending bill was "clearly written and designed to put the brakes on the current pilot program."

"Failure to end the pilot program, I believe, will put the Department of Transportation in direct violation of federal law," the senator charged.

(Story continues below)

As WND reported in September, the amendment championed by Dorgan to remove funding for the project from the 2008 DOT appropriations bill passed the Senate by a bipartisan majority of 74-24.

The amendment survived into the Consolidated Appropriations Act which President Bush signed Dec. 26.

WND left a message with Melissa DeLaney, a spokeswoman for the FMCSA, asking for comment but received no reply.

Polly W. Craighill, legislative counsel to the Senate, wrote a formal letter to Dorgan, at the senator's request, arguing the clear legislative intent of his amendment was clear.

"No funds made available under the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2008 were to be used in fiscal year 2008 to establish or implement a cross-border motor carrier demonstration program to allow Mexico-domiciled motor carriers to operate beyond the commercial zones along the international border between the United States and Mexico," Craighill wrote to Dorgan Dec. 28.

Craighill further expressed an opinion that the legislative history in the Senate established clearly the purpose was to preclude the carrying out of any demonstration program, including the pilot program put into effect in September.

"DOT is showing a blatant disregard for U.S. laws," Todd Spencer, executive vice president of the Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association, or OOIDA, told WND in a phone interview.

"The Bush administration is showing itself to be a rogue administration," Spencer said. "I understand the need to reduce the size of government, but I didn't realize it could involve doing away with the entire legislative branch.

"It's outrageous and hypocritical for the Bush administration to be preaching democracy around the world, while blowing off democracy at home," he added.

The Teamsters expressed outrage as well.

"The Bush administration should enforce the law, not break it," Leslie Miller, communications coordinator for the International Brotherhood of Teamsters told WND in a telephone interview.

Both OOIDA and the Teamsters have launched federal law suits aimed at blocking the continuance of the Mexican truck project.

The FMCSA website currently lists 11 Mexican trucking companies that remain authorized to cross the border with their long-haul rigs and operate anywhere in the U.S.

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx January 08, 2008, 01:39:57 AM
Double Agent Gadahn Threatens Bush In Neo-Con Stunt

Jewish Zionist who once called Muslims "bloodthirsty terrorists" helps Giuliani's flagging numbers before New Hampshire primary

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Monday, January 7, 2008

Adam Pearlman, the Jewish Mossad agent who once wrote stinging essays condemning Muslims as "bloodthirsty terrorists", has once again popped up as an "Al-Qaeda spokesman" to boost the Neo-Con's imperial agenda by threatening George Bush on the eve of his trip to the middle east.

In a new videotape, Pearlman, now calling himself Adam Gadahn, states, "The occupied territories are awaiting their first visit by the crusader Bush and the mujahideen are also waiting for him," reports ABC News.

According to the tape, Gadahn promises to welcome Bush "with bombs and traps."

Gadahn's appearance is also perfectly timed to boost the flagging poll numbers of Rudy Giuliani and other establishment Republican candidates who have invoked the imaginary threat of terror for political points scoring before the New Hampshire primary tomorrow.

But who is the mysterious Adam Yehiye Gadahn?

The FBI lists Gadahn's aliases as Abu Suhayb Al-Amriki, Abu Suhayb, Yihya Majadin Adams, Adam Pearlman, and Yayah.

Adam Pearlman is his real name and his grandfather is none other than the late Carl K. Pearlman; a prominent Jewish urologist in Orange County. Carl was also a member of the board of directors of the Anti-Defamation League, which was caught spying on Americans for Israel in 1993. Mike Rivero has the scoop at

Israel's Mossad intelligence agency was caught in 2002 creating a phony Al-Qaeda group to justify attacks on Palestinians.

Pearlman has a knack of releasing his tapes at the most politically opportune time for Bush, having first burst onto the scene shortly before the 2004 presidential election and then again right after Katrina when the President's approval rating was tanking fast.

Even more mainstream publications, like the Los Angeles City Beat, have dismissed Pearlman before as nothing more than "cartoonish propaganda."

Pearlman had a hippy upbringing, a brief but intense flirtation with death metal and before a sudden transformation, once referred to Muslims as “bloodthirsty, barbaric terrorists.” Pearlman was a hardcore Jewish Zionist and wrote essays and screeds bashing the Muslim faith. He even got into fights at mosques and beat up Muslim worshippers.


Pearlman, the hardcore Jewish Zionist who trashed Muslims and beat them up, grows a beard and suddenly becomes an "Al-Qaeda spokesman" - nothing suspicious here, move along!

Pearlman's personal history and the highly suspicious nature in which he suddenly professed his conversion to Islam in a single Internet posting and later appeared on the scene as a spokesman for "Al-Qaeda" are all the ingredients needed to draw the conclusion that Pearlman is working as a double agent and most likely for Mossad.

The new tape is once again the work of As Sahab, Al-Qaeda's alleged media arm and was released by the U.S. government affiliated IntelCenter organization.

The previous Pearlman tape, released at the end of May last year, was also obtained by the IntelCenter group, a U.S. government contractor, and its head Ben Venzke gave the tape credence in media interviews concerning the story, as he has done again on this occasion.

It also emerged that Gadahn was the scriptwriter for the September 11, 2007 Bin Laden tape in which segments of Bin Laden's previous statements were hastily slapped together and the contrast altered to make his dubious beard appear darker, an attempt to hoodwink viewers into thinking the tape was new material.

In our previous groundbreaking expose, we unveiled the ties between Intelcenter, a group that regularly 'obtains' Al-Qaeda tapes and the Pentagon. Intelcenter is an offshoot of IDEFENSE, which was staffed by a senior military psy-op intelligence officer Jim Melnick, who has worked directly for Donald Rumsfeld.

Intelcenter were behind the October 2006 release of the "laughing hijackers" tape that showed Mohammad Atta and Ziad Jarrah allegedly attending a 2000 Al-Qaeda meeting and reading their last will and testament.

Segments of the video that were interspersed with footage of the "laughing hijackers," Jarrah and Atta, showing Bin Laden giving a speech to an audience in Afghanistan on January 8 2000, were culled from what terror experts described as surveillance footage taken by a "security agency."

News reports at the time contained the admission that the U.S. government had been in possession of the footage since 2002, while others said it was found when the United States invaded Afghanistan in 2001, and yet it was still bizarrely reported that the tape, bearing all the hallmarks of having been filmed and edited by undercover US intelligence and having admittedly been in US possession for five years, was released over the weekend of September 31/October 1 by Al-Qaeda.

The video also contained segments that were first broadcast in a British documentary called The Road to Guantanamo, which was originally aired in March 2006. The context of the corresponding scene in the dramatized documentary featured U.S. interrogators attempting to coerce Gitmo detainees into confessing Al-Qaeda membership by showing them fake videos where their likeness had been computer generated to appear as if they were in attendance during Bin Laden's January 8 2000 speech.

The new Pearlman/Gadahn propaganda tape will no doubt be seized upon by bellicose Neo-Cons who desperately yearn for another terror attack like junkies yearn for their next hit. Unfortunately for them, crass videotapes presented by discredited intelligence double agents don't have nearly the same impact they did before masses of people started waking up to the fact that the entire war on terror is a complete fraud propped up by crude smoke and mirror stunts which manage to fool only the dumbest of Americans.

News Links
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx January 08, 2008, 01:40:02 PM
hehe bet you didn't know anderson cooper from cnn was a intern at the CIA for 2 years

Gotta Love It!

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: nadir January 08, 2008, 11:26:14 PM
hehe bet you didn't know anderson cooper from cnn was a intern at the CIA for 2 years

Gotta Love It!


That is pretty damning.   Gotta watch out for those interns.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 January 15, 2008, 08:57:18 PM
I thought the goverment shut us down because of this thread. Maybe Lox is getting too close to the truth.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx January 15, 2008, 09:59:29 PM
Military Industrial Complex Biometric Surveillance Control Grid Revealing Itself


Steve Watson
Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008

 A vast intelligence program is to establish a global biometric database known as "Server in the Sky" that will collate and provide an " International Information Consortium" with access to the biometric measurements and personal information of citizens of the US, UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand in the name of fighting the "war on terror".
As reported by the London Guardian, he plan is being formulated by the FBI with the cooperation of the home offices and law enforcement agencies of American allies.

    Biometric measurements, irises or palm prints as well as fingerprints, and other personal information are likely to be exchanged across the network.

    The FBI told the Guardian: "Server in the Sky is an FBI initiative designed to foster the advanced search and exchange of biometric information on a global scale. While it is currently in the concept and design stages, once complete it will provide a technical forum for member nations to submit biometric search requests to other nations. It will maintain a core holding of the world's 'worst of the worst' individuals. Any identifications of these people will be sent as a priority message to the requesting nation."

Of course as well as holding the information of the world's 'worst of the worst', the database will also eventually hold the records of every other citizen who has ever traveled in and out of the member states, or has ever been arrested with or without charge.

    Britain's National Policing Improvement Agency has been the lead body for the FBI project because it is responsible for IDENT1, the UK database holding 7m sets of fingerprints and other biometric details used by police forces to search for matches from scenes of crimes. Many of the prints are either from a person with no criminal record, or have yet to be matched to a named individual.

Any non national now entering the US must provide an Iris scan and ten fingerprints. This week has also seen Britain enact legislation ensuring that anyone applying for a visa from 133 countries covering three quarters of the world’s population now has their fingerprints checked against UK databases.

Police in Britain also hold vastly more DNA samples than any other country in the Western world, and many are from people who have never committed a crime. More than three million samples have been added to the national DNA database - more than 5 per cent of the population, and this is rising exponentially.

We have previously noted that the vast array of databases currently being employed by intelligence agencies, government and law enforcement agencies worldwide were designed to be linked together in a system which will tie in the management and control of all facets of life for citizens to one central hub.

The Guardian report on "Server in the Sky" further notes

    IDENT1 was built by the computer technology arm of the US defence company Northrop Grumman. In future it is expected to hold palm prints, facial images and video sequences. A company spokeswoman confirmed that Northrop Grumman had spoken to the FBI about Server in the Sky. "It can run independently but if existing systems are connected up to it then the intelligence agencies would have to approve," she said.

The component systems have been designed by the military industrial complex to strengthen and perpetuate its own existence.

The news of the global database network dovetails with announcement that US National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell is drawing up plans for cyberspace spying that would make the current debate on warrantless wiretaps look like a "walk in the park".

The plan would mean giving the government the authority to examine the content of any e-mail, file transfer or Web search.

Last month it was revealed that another military spy agency, the NSA has increasing control over SSL, now called Transport Layer Security, the cryptographic protocol that provides secure communications on the internet for web browsing, e-mail, instant messaging, and other data transfers.

In other words the agency is capable of intercepting and reading your emails and instant messages in real time.

At the same time a lawyer for an AT&T engineer went public with claims that "within two weeks of taking office, the Bush administration was planning a comprehensive effort of spying on Americans’ phone usage.” That is BEFORE 9/11, before the nation was embroiled in the freedom stripping exercise commonly known as the "war on terror" had even begun.

This swell of surveillance activity was also enhanced with news that Department of Homeland security is forging ahead and finalizing plans to use a network of spy satellites for domestic surveillance. The DHS plans to create a new department branch called the National Applications Office to oversee the program and be responsible for providing images from the satellites to non military law enforcement agencies.

After 9/11 the work of 16 different intelligence agencies, including the CIA and the giant National Security Agency, which eavesdrops on international communications, as well as the Energy Department and the Drug Enforcement Administration was centralized under the office of the Director of National Intelligence.

Over decades we have witnessed the evolution of Government surveillance programs and information databases targeting citizens. We are now witnessing the centralization of this vast control grid Panopticon beyond our own borders.

News Links,,2241005,00.html

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD January 16, 2008, 04:44:00 PM
7-year plan aligns U.S. with Europe's economy
Rules, regs to be integrated without congressional review

Posted: January 16, 2008
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2008

German Chancellor Angela Merkel, President Bush and European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso at a White House summit meeting last April where they launched the Transatlantic Economic Council
Six U.S. senators and 49 House members are advisers for a group working toward a Transatlantic Common Market between the U.S. and the European Union by 2015.

The Transatlantic Policy Network – a non-governmental organization headquartered in Washington and Brussels – is advised by the bi-partisan congressional TPN policy group, chaired by Sen. Robert Bennett, R-Utah.

The plan – currently being implemented by the Bush administration with the formation of the Transatlantic Economic Council in April 2007 – appears to be following a plan written in 1939 by a world-government advocate who sought to create a Transatlantic Union as an international governing body.

An economist from the World Bank has argued in print that the formation of the Transatlantic Common Market is designed to follow the blueprint of Jean Monnet, a key intellectual architect of the European Union, recognizing that economic integration must inevitably lead to political integration.

(Story continues below)

As WND previously reported, a key step in advancing this goal was the creation of the Transatlantic Economic Council by the U.S. and the EU through an agreement signed by President Bush, German Chancellor Angela Merkel – the current president of the European Council – and European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso at a White House summit meeting last April.

Writing in the Fall 2007 issue of the Streit Council journal "Freedom and Union," Rep. Jim Costa, D-Calif., a member of the TPN advisory group, affirmed the target date of 2015 for the creation of a Transatlantic Common Market.

Costa said the Transatlantic Economic Council is tasked with creating the Transatlantic Common Market regulatory infrastructure. The infrastructure would not require congressional approval, like a new free-trade agreement would.

Writing in the same issue of the Streit Council publication, Bennett also confirmed that what has become known as the "Merkel initiative" would allow the Transatlantic Economic Council to integrate and harmonize administrative rules and regulations between the U.S. and the EU "in a very quiet way," without introducing a new free trade agreement to Congress.

Sen. Robert Bennett, R-Utah

No document on the TEC website suggests that any of the regulatory changes resulting from the process of integrating with the EU will be posted in the Federal Register or submitted to Congress as new free-trade agreements or as modifications to existing trade agreements.

In addition to Bennett, the advisers to the Transatlantic Policy Network includes the following senators: Thad Cochran, R-Miss.; Chuck Hagel, R-Neb.; Barbara Mikulski, D-Md.; Pat Roberts, R-Kan.; and Gordon Smith, R-Ore.

Among the 49 U.S. congressmen on the TPN's Congressional Group are John Boehner, R-Ohio; John Dingell, D-Mich.; Kenny Marchant, R-Texas; and F. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wisc.

WND contacted Bennett's office for comment but received no return call by the publication deadline.

A progress report on the TEC website indicates the following U.S. government agencies are already at work integrating and harmonizing administrative rules and regulations with their EU counterparts: The Office of Management and Budget, the Food and Drug Administration, the Environmental Protection Agency, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration and the Securities and Exchange Commission.

A step toward world government

The Streit Council is named after Clarence K. Streit, whose 1939 book "Union Now" called for the creation of a Transatlantic Union as a step toward world government. The new federation, with an international constitution, was to include the 15 democracies of U.S., UK, France, Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Ireland, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland and South Africa.

Ira Straus, the founder and U.S. coordinator of the Committee on Eastern Europe and Russia in NATO, a group dedicated to including Russia within NATO, credits Bennett as TPN chairperson with reviving Streit's work "seven decades later."

A globalist with leftist political leanings, Straus was a Fulbright professor of political science at Moscow State University and the Moscow State Institute of International Relations from 2001 to 2002.

The congruity of ideas between Bennett and Streit is clear when Bennett writes passages that echo precisely goals Streit stated in 1939.

One example is Bennett's claim in his Streit Council article that creating a Transatlantic Common Market would combine markets that comprise 60 percent of world Gross Domestic Product under a common regulatory standard that would become "the de facto world standard, regardless of what any other parties say."

Similarly, Streit wrote in "Union Now" that the economic power of the 15 democracies he sought to combine in a Transatlantic Union would be overwhelming in their economic power and a clear challenge to the authoritarian states then represented by Nazi Germany and the communist Soviet Union.

Also writing in the Fall 2007 issue of the Streit Council journal "Freedom and Union," World Bank economist Domenec Ruiz Devesa openly acknowledged that "transatlantic economic integration, though important in itself, is not the end."

"As understood by Jean Monnet," he continued, "economic integration must and will lead to political integration, since an integrated market requires common institutions producing common rules to govern it."

Transatlantic Common Market by 2015

Last February, the Transatlantic Policy Network formed a Transatlantic Market Implementation Group to put in place "a roadmap and framework" to direct the activity of the Transatlantic Economic Council to achieve the creation of the Transatlantic Common Market by 2015.

The Transatlantic Economic Council is an official international governmental body established by executive fiat in the U.S. and the EU without congressional approval or oversight. No new law or treaty was sought by the Bush administration to approve or implement the plan to create a Transatlantic Common Market.

The U.S. congressmen and senators are involved only indirectly, as advisers to the influential non-governmental organization.

In a February 2007 document entitled "Completing the Transatlantic Market," the TPN's Transatlantic Market Implementation Group writes, "The aim of this roadmap and framework would be to remove barriers to trade and investment across the Atlantic and to reduce regulatory compliance costs."

The document further acknowledged the impact the Transatlantic Common Market agenda would have on U.S. and European legislators: "The roadmap and framework will necessarily oblige legislative and regulatory authorities in both Europe and the United States to take into consideration from the outset the impact their acts may have on transatlantic economic relations and to ensure that their respective governmental bodies involved have the necessary budgetary and organizational resources to work closely with each other."

Clinton administration roots

The work to create a Transatlantic Common Market can be traced back to the Clinton administration's decision to join in the 1995 New Transatlantic Agenda with the European Commission.

Today, the website of the Transatlantic Economic Council openly proclaims the TEC is "a political body to oversee and accelerate government-to-government integration between the European Union and the United States of America."

The first meeting of the TEC was held Nov. 9 in Washington, D.C., and the next meeting is scheduled for June.

A joint statement issued at the Nov. 9 meeting specified progress was being made "in removing barriers to trade and investment and in easing regulatory burdens" in a wide range of policy areas, including drugs and disease control, the importation into the EU of U.S. poultry treated with pathogen reduction treatments, federal communication commissions allowing suppliers to create declarations of conformity for products, uniform standards for electrical products and agreements on standards for pure biofuels.

So I guess this could never happen, I read that somewhere in this thread.

how much more to you have to read to figure this shit out?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: nadir January 16, 2008, 06:39:43 PM
My sister interned at the CIA.  She now works as an HR manager for a large beauty supply company.  I think she is keeping tabs on what US citizens are putting on their hair and adding it to their files.  People in the SE should be careful where and what hair care products they buy and where they get haircuts and stuff.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx January 17, 2008, 08:58:17 AM
Benjamin Fulford interviews David Rockefeller about illuminati, asian opposition

News Links

and nadir please don't spam my thread talking about ur fat ass sister

: Dr.Paul #2 In Nevada cacuses
: [Ht]LOx January 21, 2008, 08:17:19 PM
This Is How The Establishment Reacts When You Challenge The Powers That Be


HAHAH is it clear to you now?  <---video of this fucking cunt clearly not saying his name

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Mad January 21, 2008, 09:13:50 PM
Dr. Phil > Dr. Paul  :P

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy January 22, 2008, 01:15:24 PM
big suprise here ....

and why is this buried in the middle of the NY post and not getting any coverage ?
Ok I am not really ever on the TV , so maybe it got something there, but I havent seen it, or heard on radio ..,0,6522659.story?track=rss

So dude works with the spread of infectious disease and has a pipe bomb factory in his apt. , in Brooklyn, and no coverage ?   
I'm sure you don;t know what your roomates are up to huh ?


: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx January 22, 2008, 03:27:46 PM
iam sure they don't want to talk about terror shit, everytime becuz ppl are on to it.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx January 23, 2008, 11:31:22 PM
Ex-UN Weapons Inspector Ritter Asks If Bush, Cheney Planned Implosion Of WTC


Jason Charles
Wednesday, January 23, 2008

n his usual form, former U.N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter told a packed crowd at the Oriental Theater in Denver to stop whining about corporate media and become their own intelligence operatives. We the people have the same resources and tools that intelligence networks rely heavily on; it’s called “Google” he said.

In his hilarious analogy, the American people like baby birds wait each night in front of their television sets for the corporate news bird to land in their living room and lovingly puke down our necks with that day’s regurgitated news. Suggesting that as our own intelligence operatives we can’t allow CNN, FOX, NBC, and ABC to edit and cherry pick information, but ask questions and find the answers ourselves.

In that vein Editor Jason Charles had a few questions for Mr. Ritter which he graciously allowed us to film. We explored 3 topics, if the Bush admin got its way in the mid-east what would it look like, how can these dis-separate yet justice driven revolutions in America unite, and his amazing thoughts on a new, fully empowered investigation into the cause of 9-11.

He asked, “Did Bush and Cheney Plan the demise of the building? Was this a terrorist attack by Al-Qaeda? Or was it something in between? Well frankly we don’t know.” How important is this to establishing justice? Mr. Ritter seems to think it is an “absolute requirement to know what happened on 9-11”  <----video of the interview
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx January 24, 2008, 03:24:28 AM
i found this kind of weird i saw it in END GAME.

And You Fags Better Give Me Your Review On It



Bonus Footage



: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx January 28, 2008, 02:09:52 AM
Out of the ashes: a New World Order
Global elite signal declining superpower status of the United States, rise of new order

Daniel Taylor
Old Thinker News
Friday January 25, 2008

As the United States faces an economic crisis that is  being compared by experts to the 1929 Great Depression, the global elite are proclaiming the fall of the U.S and the rise of a new global order.

The IOL reports that the recent meeting in Davos, Switzerland, which focused in part on the global economic meltdown, pointed to "global" solutions and the need for a strengthened United Nations in the face of world crises.

Sovereignty, according to many who attended, must be weakened. The IOL reports,
For Gareth Evans, former Australian foreign minister and now president of the International Crisis Group, even those countries with a deep resistance to intervention were starting to recognise that egregious crimes against humanity could not go unchallenged.

"There is now the beginning of a global consensus that sovereignty doesn't mean a license to kill, doesn't mean a license to stand back and allow killing of that order to take place," Evans said.

"This is a very real phenomenon, that sovereignty is not what it was and can't be what it was," he added.

(Article continues below)

Writing in the evening standard, Anthony Hilton states regarding the Davos meeting,
"World leaders have a similar problem in Davos as they try to think through the turmoil in world markets to focus on what is really happening to the global economy.

Henry Kissinger picked up on the political implications. The challenge to the world, he said, was handling the structural changes taking place - the transfer of economic power from America to the Pacific, the shortages of water and energy and the threat of climate change, which require global not national solutions."

A strengthened United Nations, also discussed at Davos, was promoted by Prime Minister Gordon Brown earlier this week after secret talks with world leaders. Brown called for a "new world order" and a "global society". As the New Zealand Hearld reported,
"British Prime Minister Gordon Brown has begun secret talks with other world leaders on far-reaching reform of the United Nations Security Council as part of a drive to create a "new world order" and "global society"."

The economic crises that the world is plunging into is being and will be used as the pretext to forge the new global order long sought after by the global elite. More centralized control will emerge. "New" solutions will be presented in slick packages to a despairing population begging for order.

News Links

heheh they can't take it anymore they are splashing it all over the place now.

Orwell Rolls in His Grave

: The War Tapes
: [Ht]LOx January 29, 2008, 05:29:23 AM
This was a very good documentary film about the Iraq War through the eyes of the soldiers that I recommend everyone to see.

Warning: There is graphic images depicted in this film, viewer discretion is advised.


: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD January 30, 2008, 09:11:54 PM
hey lox look into the shit the republicans pulled in louisiana last weekend during their cacuses,it looks like Ron won the thing but the rest of the candidates pulled some wild shit to screw him over and the results still haven't been released
: Willie Nelson: Twin Towers Were
: [Ht]LOx February 05, 2008, 05:15:28 AM

American icon tells Alex Jones Show he questions official story

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Monday, February 4th, 2008

Straight talking American icon Willie Nelson today told a national radio show that he thought the twin towers were imploded like condemned Las Vegas casino buildings, as the country music superstar forcefully voiced his doubts about the official 9/11 story.

Agreeing with host Alex Jones that he questioned the official story, Nelson elaborated, "I saw those towers fall and I've seen an implosion in Las Vegas - there's too much similarities between the two, and I saw a building fall that didn't get hit by nothing," added Nelson, referring to WTC Building 7 which collapsed in the late afternoon of September 11.

"How naive are we - what do they think we'll go for?," asked Nelson, pointing out that his doubts began on the very day of 9/11.

"I saw one fall and it was just so symmetrical, I said wait a minute I just saw that last week at the casino in Las Vegas and you see these implosions all the time and the next one fell and I said hell there's another one - and they're trying to tell me that an airplane did it and I can't go along with that," said Nelson.

The former Highwayman, fresh from his appearance at this past weekend's superbowl, questioned why Afghanistan became an immediate target in the aftermath of 9/11 when the official story posited that mostly Saudi Arabians were responsible for the attack.

"When I get hit I like to look around and see who did it before I start swinging at everybody in the room and that's kind of what we were doing," said Nelson, "We get hit over here and then next thing you know we're jumping on everybody in the town - so (if) we got hit from Saudi Arabia, I think we've got some questions that need to be answered from those folks," said Nelson.

In light of his viewpoint, Nelson said that recent revelations concerning the impartiality of the 9/11 Commission and its close links with the White House did not surprise him.

"What does it take for us to realize we're having the wool pulled over our eyes one more time?" he concluded.

Nelson is not the first high-profile public figure to question 9/11. In March 2006, actor Charlie Sheen voiced his doubts and was followed last year by his father Martin Sheen.

Aside from celebrities - professors, scientists and other experts the world over have questioned the inconsistencies in the official story, and the topic was most recently even a subject of serious debate in the Japanese Parliament.

In December, former Italian President Francesco Cossiga told Italy's most respected newspaper, Corriere della Sera, that the attacks were run by the CIA and Mossad and that this was common knowledge amongst global intelligence agencies.

Former German Secretary of Defense Andreas von Bülow also went public in blaming American intelligence for instigating the attack.

Nelson's country music contemporaries The Dixie Chicks were savaged by the establishment when they criticized the Bush administration shortly before the invasion of Iraq. It remains to be seen whether the corporate media will dare take on Nelson for his views or whether they will just try to ignore the story as happened with Martin Sheen.

Even if they choose to ignore Nelson's comments, the power of the alternative media should organize now to get this story out.

Click here to listen to the MP3 audio of the interview.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: flypaper February 05, 2008, 11:10:06 AM
Lox I saw a Ron Paul ad in High Times, hehe ;D That right there tells you hes not full of shit if anyone had any doubts

I love this guy.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 February 05, 2008, 02:32:51 PM
If Lox is now using Willie as a reliable source, this thread is about over.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx February 05, 2008, 05:07:04 PM
im not using him as a source was just posting that he has come out with it.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 February 05, 2008, 06:14:29 PM
Ok, here is a conspiracy theory for you. Bill Clinton president again. How is that possible?
Hillary runs with Bill as VP on her ticket. During her office he has her assasinated and he is the Pres again.

The law is vague on a ex-president being a VP.
But then again, what the fuck do the Clintons care about the law anyway?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Skiiz February 05, 2008, 10:19:24 PM
But then again, what the fuck do the Clintons care about the law anyway?

LOL what's that supposed to mean?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD February 06, 2008, 01:30:01 AM
But then again, what the fuck do the Clintons care about the law anyway?

LOL what's that supposed to mean?

well how about splitting the hairs of what the fuck "is" means for one example of the way they shit on the law.

and Bush isn't one bit better.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx February 06, 2008, 04:51:40 AM
well here is the run down of the top dem's and repubs

John Mccain

1.Total New World Order Scum

2.Clearly States It's Fine With Him If We Are In Iraq For 100 Years

3.laughs like it's a big joke to murder Iranian people

Mitt Romney

1.Romney Supporters Caught Voting Multiple Times In Florida Straw Poll   <---(video of them being caught)    <---(more video of it) <---(the news link)

2.He Doesn't Support A New Investigation Into 9/11  <---(video of him being confronted)

3.He Supports Real ID


Hitlery Clinton

1.Attended Bilderberg Conference (2006 ottawa,canada)

2.White House records still locked up (hehe wonder what nwo shit is in there),0,1546719.story

3.Hubby Bill Is Calling For A New World Order (Pretty Sure She Wants Anything He Wants)  <----(Video Of Him Saying It C-Span)

Barack Obama

1.Obama, Brzezinski, and the Neolib-Neocon Family Feud

2.Wife Michelle Obama Still Sits On the Board Of Directors For The CFR  (scroll down you will see here name)
Michelle Obama
Vice President for Community and External Affairs, The University of Chicago Medical Center

3.No Different From Bush (same elite ties)
His Nose Is Way Cleaner Than Hitlery Tho Look For More False Flags Of Terror From Obama,Mccain,Hitlery If They Get In Office


: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 February 06, 2008, 11:44:12 AM
Here is something very strange about all the front runners for presidental candidates. They are all congressmen.
Typically, presidents of the current past have been ex-Governors. Kennedy was the last Senator to be president and we all know what the powers that be thought of him.
Before Kennedy, I couldn't tell you who was the last president who wasn't a governor.
This is just a really strange pool of candidates. Mostly congressmen, a woman, a black guy.
Going by past stats, they are all a-typical people to back.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy February 06, 2008, 02:22:51 PM
Lets just vote for the real candidates..

Goldman Sachs    vs.    Bear Stearns ..

That's all those puppets really represent isnt it  ?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: nadir February 06, 2008, 11:37:14 PM
I think it is funny to murder Iranians.  Is that wrong?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD February 07, 2008, 12:10:20 AM
Here is something very strange about all the front runners for presidental candidates. They are all congressmen.
Typically, presidents of the current past have been ex-Governors. Kennedy was the last Senator to be president and we all know what the powers that be thought of him.
Before Kennedy, I couldn't tell you who was the last president who wasn't a governor.
This is just a really strange pool of candidates. Mostly congressmen, a woman, a black guy.
Going by past stats, they are all a-typical people to back.

Eisenhower- and nixon was never a governor
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Cerberus February 07, 2008, 12:37:07 AM
Sarge should know, he can probably remember back to Truman
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD February 07, 2008, 12:39:50 AM
Gasoline could drop 50 cents/gallon by spring

and ppl don't want to believe the govt isn't pulling any shit on us,kind of funny that right before an election the price of gas will drop
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 February 07, 2008, 12:56:37 AM
Gasoline could drop 50 cents/gallon by spring

and ppl don't want to believe the govt isn't pulling any shit on us,kind of funny that right before an election the price of gas will drop

No shit. Rember that crap during the Clinton era where they release federal reserve just to get the price down during election time.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD February 07, 2008, 08:04:17 AM
what happened during the clinton admin was when he was impeached the price of gas hit 89 cents a gallon in vegas
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 February 07, 2008, 04:56:24 PM
Eisenhower- and nixon was never a governor

Ike was president before Kennedy and Nixon was a VP before he was the Pres. So, I guess that Govenors and VPs are typical winners of the recent past.
The point is that is rare for somebody to come out of the Representives or Senate and take the office.

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Cerberus February 07, 2008, 08:23:51 PM
(Pretty Sure She Wants Anything He Wants)

she wants an ugly fat bitch to go down on her too
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: nadir February 07, 2008, 09:34:45 PM
Here is something that should piss you off.

Clarity Sought on Electronics Searches
U.S. Agents Seize Travelers' Devices

By Ellen Nakashima
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, February 7, 2008; A01

Nabila Mango, a therapist and a U.S. citizen who has lived in the country since 1965, had just flown in from Jordan last December when, she said, she was detained at customs and her cellphone was taken from her purse. Her daughter, waiting outside San Francisco International Airport, tried repeatedly to call her during the hour and a half she was questioned. But after her phone was returned, Mango saw that records of her daughter's calls had been erased.

A few months earlier in the same airport, a tech engineer returning from a business trip to London objected when a federal agent asked him to type his password into his laptop computer. "This laptop doesn't belong to me," he remembers protesting. "It belongs to my company." Eventually, he agreed to log on and stood by as the officer copied the Web sites he had visited, said the engineer, a U.S. citizen who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of calling attention to himself.

Maria Udy, a marketing executive with a global travel management firm in Bethesda, said her company laptop was seized by a federal agent as she was flying from Dulles International Airport to London in December 2006. Udy, a British citizen, said the agent told her he had "a security concern" with her. "I was basically given the option of handing over my laptop or not getting on that flight," she said.

The seizure of electronics at U.S. borders has prompted protests from travelers who say they now weigh the risk of traveling with sensitive or personal information on their laptops, cameras or cellphones. In some cases, companies have altered their policies to require employees to safeguard corporate secrets by clearing laptop hard drives before international travel.

Today, the Electronic Frontier Foundation and Asian Law Caucus, two civil liberties groups in San Francisco, plan to file a lawsuit to force the government to disclose its policies on border searches, including which rules govern the seizing and copying of the contents of electronic devices. They also want to know the boundaries for asking travelers about their political views, religious practices and other activities potentially protected by the First Amendment. The question of whether border agents have a right to search electronic devices at all without suspicion of a crime is already under review in the federal courts.

The lawsuit was inspired by two dozen cases, 15 of which involved searches of cellphones, laptops, MP3 players and other electronics. Almost all involved travelers of Muslim, Middle Eastern or South Asian background, many of whom, including Mango and the tech engineer, said they are concerned they were singled out because of racial or religious profiling.

A U.S. Customs and Border Protection spokeswoman, Lynn Hollinger, said officers do not engage in racial profiling "in any way, shape or form." She said that "it is not CBP's intent to subject travelers to unwarranted scrutiny" and that a laptop may be seized if it contains information possibly tied to terrorism, narcotics smuggling, child pornography or other criminal activity.

The reason for a search is not always made clear. The Association of Corporate Travel Executives, which represents 2,500 business executives in the United States and abroad, said it has tracked complaints from several members, including Udy, whose laptops have been seized and their contents copied before usually being returned days later, said Susan Gurley, executive director of ACTE. Gurley said none of the travelers who have complained to the ACTE raised concerns about racial or ethnic profiling. Gurley said none of the travelers were charged with a crime.

"I was assured that my laptop would be given back to me in 10 or 15 days," said Udy, who continues to fly into and out of the United States. She said the federal agent copied her log-on and password, and asked her to show him a recent document and how she gains access to Microsoft Word. She was asked to pull up her e-mail but could not because of lack of Internet access. With ACTE's help, she pressed for relief. More than a year later, Udy has received neither her laptop nor an explanation.

ACTE last year filed a Freedom of Information Act request to press the government for information on what happens to data seized from laptops and other electronic devices. "Is it destroyed right then and there if the person is in fact just a regular business traveler?" Gurley asked. "People are quite concerned. They don't want proprietary business information floating, not knowing where it has landed or where it is going. It increases the anxiety level."

Udy has changed all her work passwords and no longer banks online. Her company, Radius, has tightened its data policies so that traveling employees must access company information remotely via an encrypted channel, and their laptops must contain no company information.

At least two major global corporations, one American and one Dutch, have told their executives not to carry confidential business material on laptops on overseas trips, Gurley said. In Canada, one law firm has instructed its lawyers to travel to the United States with "blank laptops" whose hard drives contain no data. "We just access our information through the Internet," said Lou Brzezinski, a partner at Blaney McMurtry, a major Toronto law firm. That approach also holds risks, but "those are hacking risks as opposed to search risks," he said.

The U.S. government has argued in a pending court case that its authority to protect the country's border extends to looking at information stored in electronic devices such as laptops without any suspicion of a crime. In border searches, it regards a laptop the same as a suitcase.

"It should not matter . . . whether documents and pictures are kept in 'hard copy' form in an executive's briefcase or stored digitally in a computer. The authority of customs officials to search the former should extend equally to searches of the latter," the government argued in the child pornography case being heard by a three-judge panel of the Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit in San Francisco.

As more and more people travel with laptops, BlackBerrys and cellphones, the government's laptop-equals-suitcase position is raising red flags.

"It's one thing to say it's reasonable for government agents to open your luggage," said David D. Cole, a law professor at Georgetown University. "It's another thing to say it's reasonable for them to read your mind and everything you have thought over the last year. What a laptop records is as personal as a diary but much more extensive. It records every Web site you have searched. Every e-mail you have sent. It's as if you're crossing the border with your home in your suitcase."

If the government's position on searches of electronic files is upheld, new risks will confront anyone who crosses the border with a laptop or other device, said Mark Rasch, a technology security expert with FTI Consulting and a former federal prosecutor. "Your kid can be arrested because they can't prove the songs they downloaded to their iPod were legally downloaded," he said. "Lawyers run the risk of exposing sensitive information about their client. Trade secrets can be exposed to customs agents with no limit on what they can do with it. Journalists can expose sources, all because they have the audacity to cross an invisible line."

Hollinger said customs officers "are trained to protect confidential information."

Shirin Sinnar, a staff attorney with the Asian Law Caucus, said that by scrutinizing the Web sites people search and the phone numbers they've stored on their cellphones, "the government is going well beyond its traditional role of looking for contraband and really is looking into the content of people's thoughts and ideas and their lawful political activities."

If conducted inside the country, such searches would require a warrant and probable cause, legal experts said.

Customs sometimes singles out passengers for extensive questioning and searches based on "information from various systems and specific techniques for selecting passengers," including the Interagency Border Inspection System, according to a statement on the CBP Web site. "CBP officers may, unfortunately, inconvenience law-abiding citizens in order to detect those involved in illicit activities," the statement said. But the factors agents use to single out passengers are not transparent, and travelers generally have little access to the data to see whether there are errors.

Although Customs said it does not profile by race or ethnicity, an officers' training guide states that "it is permissible and indeed advisable to consider an individual's connections to countries that are associated with significant terrorist activity."

"What's the difference between that and targeting people because they are Arab or Muslim?" Cole said, noting that the countries the government focuses on are generally predominantly Arab or Muslim.

It is the lack of clarity about the rules that has confounded travelers and raised concerns from groups such as the Asian Law Caucus, which said that as a result, their lawyers cannot fully advise people how they may exercise their rights during a border search. The lawsuit says a Freedom of Information Act request was filed with Customs last fall but that no information has been received.

Kamran Habib, a software engineer with Cisco Systems, has had his laptop and cellphone searched three times in the past year. Once, in San Francisco, an officer "went through every number and text message on my cellphone and took out my SIM card in the back," said Habib, a permanent U.S. resident. "So now, every time I travel, I basically clean out my phone. It's better for me to keep my colleagues and friends safe than to get them on the list as well."

Udy's company, Radius, organizes business trips for 100,000 travelers a day, from companies around the world. She says her firm supports strong security measures. "Where we get angry is when we don't know what they're for."

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 February 08, 2008, 12:57:27 PM
Bush's current approval rating is 30%. I really don't how these numbers are calcualted but, it looks like he has managed to piss off just about everybody in one way or another during his terms.
: Principal Electrical Engineer for WTC: “Fuel and Planes Alone Did NOT Bring the
: [Ht]LOx February 13, 2008, 02:23:14 PM
911 Blogger
February 12, 2008

Richard F. Humenn, PE was the Senior Project Design Engineer for electrical systems for the entire World Trade Center, and he had 60 people working under him. In other words, he was the guy in charge of all electrical at the WTC. A retired licensed professional engineer, he was certified by the States of New York, New Jersey, Connecticut and Washington, D.C.

Humenn stated to Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth:

    On September 11, I watched the live TV broadcast of the progressive collapse of the World Trade Towers with disbelief, as the mass and strength of the structure should have survived the localized damage caused by the planes and burning jet fuel.

    I viewed the presentation of Richard Gage and other related material, which compels me to believe that the fuel and planes alone did not bring the Towers down. I, therefore, support the proposal to form an international group of professionals to investigate all plausible causes for the virtual freefall and the almost total destruction of the WTC structures.

Humenn also recently gave a two-hour recorded interview to an attorney and former law school professor (a transcript of the interview will soon be posted to In that interview, Humenn expressed his opinion that the Twin Towers were intentionally demolished. (He stated that he could not believe the U.S. government could have done such a thing; however, he was not asked about rogue elements within the government).

Few engineers have as much first-hand knowledge of the Twin Towers as Humenn, so his opinion carries some weight. As he explains, "Though an electrical engineer by trade, I was also very familiar with the structures and their conceptual design parameters."

News Links
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 February 13, 2008, 02:38:44 PM
I personally beleive that the information presented could have caused a collapse in the fashion that it happened. With the retempering of the truss bolts (bolts were subsituted for rivits and who else knows what else the building contractors did outside of design parameters), they could have fatigued with the open structure, increased mass of the planes, and impact displacement.

I agree there are a few artifacts that still need to be explained in the whole mess. A more through investigation needs to be preformed. I really don't know if an international team would be a good idea since that would be sharing some information that should be kept private untill an explination is formulated.

The one thing that I find strange was the sizematic measurements on that day (richter scale) were consistant with an explosion right around the time of impact. The buildings didn't collapse upon impact so weather you think it was the planes or explosives -- fatigue and wind oscilation were involved.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx February 19, 2008, 06:52:41 AM
Walter And Hitlery

What A Poilce State Looks Like

found this odd

Of skulls and bones: More secrets of the tomb
Native Americans groups fight to recover lost skulls of Geronimo.

gotta love this rant
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx February 19, 2008, 01:15:55 PM
Now Bush Is Showing His True Colors

This morning on NBC’s Today Show

President Bush denied that the there’s any link between the faltering U.S. economy and $10 billion a month being spent on the Iraq war. In fact, according to Bush, the war is actually helping the economy:

    CURRY: You don’t agree with that? It has nothing do with the economy, the war — spending on the war?

    BUSH: I don’t think so. I think actually the spending in the war might help with jobs…because we’re buying equipment, and people are working. I think this economy is down because we built too many houses and the economy’s adjusting.

The Iraq war has created jobs — for the administration’s defense contractor allies. Bush’s most recent budget is a windfall for contractors, and between 2000 and 2005, procurement was the “fastest growing component of federal discretionary spending.” (Halliburton has been the biggest beneficiary of the administration’s generosity.)

Five years after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, however, national unemployment is going up. Between December 2006 and December 2007, the national unemployment rate increased by 13.6 percent in seasonally adjusted terms, from 4.4 to 5.0 percent. Additionally, 68 percent of the American public believes that redeployment from Iraq would help fix the country’s economic woes.


    Some Americans believe that they feel they’re carrying the burden because of this economy.

    G. BUSH: Yeah, well…

    CURRY: They say we’re suffering because of this.

    G. BUSH: … I don’t agree with that.

    CURRY: You don’t agree with that? It has nothing do with the economy, the war — spending on the war?

    G. BUSH: I don’t think so.

    I think actually the spending in the war might help with jobs.

    CURRY: Oh, yeah?

    G. BUSH: Yeah, because we’re buying equipment, and people are working.

    I think this economy is down because we built too many houses and the economy’s adjusting.

Like I Have Always Said They Are Going To Blow This Economy Out Set-Up The North American Union Then Bring In The Amero Currency
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 February 19, 2008, 02:23:01 PM
Thank god Bush can't run again and Cheny doesn't want to run. If this office continued I wouldn't be suprised at an invasion on Venezuela.
Also, the scarry thing about Bush is that he actually might beleive that the war is good for the economy. Back in the days of WWII it was good for businesses. In this day of coporate conglomerations and govermnet outsourcing it is good for the Businesses that the current office favors but not for the economy as a whole
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Skiiz February 19, 2008, 02:27:13 PM
As much as I hate to admit it, Bush isn't far from the mark when he says the building of too many houses is contributing to the faltering economy, Chicago is a great example of over-investment in housing, but it's borderline retarded to think the war isn't a drain on the economy...
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 February 19, 2008, 06:01:29 PM

Gasoline breaks $100/gal beacuse of refinery outage. A lot of people don't realize that a new refinery hasn't been built in the US since 80's due to the problems in getting permits and meeting regulations. In the mean time several old refinerys have closed because they can't meet current regulations of clean air, etc. It is kind of crazy of how something on the other end of production can effect the raw product cost but it goes to show how they will use anything to inflate the cost.

Any other industry and the raw product would drop in price. This is like a bread factory burns down so the price of grain goes up. In the real economy of supply and demand, the raw product producers would have to lower their price because they would now have a surplus and there would a lack of resources for processing
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx February 19, 2008, 10:34:59 PM
you must be crazy if you believe that.
: 7/7 Ripple Effect
: [Ht]LOx February 19, 2008, 10:47:31 PM
Great Movie
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Mad February 20, 2008, 02:47:12 PM
: Henry Kissinger: The Making Of A War Criminal
: [Ht]LOx February 21, 2008, 09:29:28 AM

Some of the major crimes of this famous international criminal are revealed within.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 February 21, 2008, 12:27:39 PM
Economic Colonialism

Why we Fight was a documentary I saw on Starz last night and it was a in debth look at how America is trying to take over the world by forcing our economy on every country. It also touched on how the Romans tried this and came to realize that Standing Armies were necessary in most countries to maintain controll. And, that George Washington in his farewell speach warned aginst colonialism and standing armies.

It also told of the relationship of businesses, goverment, economy, and think tanks. Congressmen are alomost forced to keep a constant state of war somewhere to get elected. This has been arranged by making sure that every state has jobs that depend on Goverment military contracts for a large number of people. Parts and sub-assemblies for a lot of large crafts are delibertaly made in all 50 states to keep this war maching going. Even though this greatly increases the cost of the crafts. Also, if congressmen do a good job at the war propoganda, they can get high paying jobs at these companies after they leave the goverment like Dick who went from a net worth of about 1 million to 40 million in 5 years.

The scarriest part was the think tanks. They take intelligence of foreign countries and the US economy and use this information to determine the next profitable was. The US has invaded one coutry per year (on average) since Eisenhower.

It was a pretty informative documentary and worth a watch.

I have always beleived, from the information presented, that the collapse of the towers was caused by the planes. Like in any chaotic system there are anomolies. The towers had more than an reasonable amount of anomilies so everything is suspect. I just haven't seen enough evidence from anybody to conclusively explain the anomolies so I have to go with the most logical conclusion and that is the planes caused the collapse. I wouldn't put it past the think tanks to have funded this activity or had prior knowledge and not stopped it.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 February 22, 2008, 09:53:05 PM
What Newsmax thinks about Ron Paul.

I hope this guy is able to tap some voter pools that they aren't counting on him getting. Also, the use of the internet is brillant and he just might pull it together like Jesse Ventura to take them by surprise. Speaking about Jesse I wish he would run. What he has to say about corruption and 911.
: Ex-Congressman: U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda, Involved In 9/11
: [Ht]LOx February 23, 2008, 09:44:08 AM
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Friday, February 22nd, 2008


A former Congressman says that the U.S. government created Al-Qaeda and was involved in bombing its own citizens on 9/11, telling a national radio show that elements of the Bush administration assisted the attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon.

Daniel Hamburg is a former Democratic Congressman who was elected to the 1st Congressional District of California in 1992 and also subsequently ran for Governor of California, finishing in 3rd place.

Hamburg co-wrote a well-received recent article carried by the San Francisco Chronicle in which he outlined the program to incarcerate American citizens in internment camps, which have already been publicly built, during a time of declared national emergency.

Appearing today on the Alex Jones Show, Hamburg said he was working on an article about missing nuclear bombs in relation to the Minot nuclear warheads mishap and agreed that it was possible the story could be used as a cover for the staged detonation of a nuke to be blamed on Al-Qaeda.

“Any government that could bomb its own citizens in the major city of the country could do anything….you can’t put anything past them,” said Hamburg, clarifying that he was referring to 9/11.

“I’m in the assisted it to happen camp - I think there was a lot of help from the inside, this whole thing was not engineered from a cave in Afghanistan,” he added.

“The evidence that Al-Qaeda is actually an arm of the U.S. government is voluminous….I know that’s true,” concluded Hamburg, citing the PNAC group’s call for a new Pearl Harbor shortly before the 2001 terror attacks.

“it’s hard for people to believe that their government could be as insidious as this one is but the evidence is there,” concluded Hamburg.

News Links

San Francisco Chronicle

REX 84   <--page 37 but read the whole thing
: Traitor Greenspan Urges Gulf States To Abandon Dollar
: [Ht]LOx February 26, 2008, 08:14:52 PM
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Tuesday, February 26th, 2008


Alan Greenspan has again exposed himself as a traitor working against the interests of the American people by urging Gulf states to abandon the dollar peg, a move that could result in financial chaos and an economic depression in America.

The dollar peg mandates Gulf nations to price their assets in U.S. dollars and follow U.S. monetary policy at a time when the Fed is cutting interest rates, a system that has produced a boom in oil revenues but led to high inflation as the dollar weakens.

"It [de-pegging] is probably the most useful thing that can be done to stop the increasing influence of foreign assets on the monetary system and therefore the monetary base which is basically the major force in inflationary pressures," Greenspan told the Abu Dhabi Corporate Leadership Forum yesterday.

"In the short term free floating … will not fully dissipate inflationary pressure, although it would significantly do so," added Greenspan, giving a green light for Gulf states to drop the dollar peg.

According to Economist editor Pam Woodall, Greenspan’s comments heralded the beginning of the end for the US dollar as the currency of choice for foreign exchange reserves.

"If Asian central banks hold today more than 80 per cent of the global foreign exchange reserves, which indicates the shift of the global economy domination towards Asia, it seems quite awkward that the UAE still maintains the peg of its currency to the US dollar," she told Gulf News.

Greenspan’s zeal to destroy the dollar is evident in numerous public statements he has made predicting the replacement of the dollar with the Euro as the world reserve currency.

The former Fed chairman has repeatedly badmouthed the dollar and hyped the inevitability of economic chaos at a time when market confidence is in the toilet. Greenspan’s rhetoric matches that of the IMF, who in October of last year bizarrely slammed the dollar as "overvalued" at the same time the greenback hit its all time low against the Euro.

A decision on behalf of the Gulf states to abandon the dollar peg would have disastrous consequences for the greenback and the American economy.

Such a move could lead the likes of the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia to diversify their foreign exchange holdings out of dollars. This would amount to a vote of "no confidence" in the dollar and may cause other countries with large dollar reserves, such as China and Japan, to follow suit and begin dumping the greenback en masse.

China has threatened repeatedly to use the "nuclear option" and liquidate its vast holding of US treasuries in response to continued pressure on the Communist state to force a yuan revaluation. According to a widely-read London Telegraph report, such an event "could trigger a dollar crash" and also "cause a spike in US bond yields, hammering the US housing market and perhaps tipping the economy into recession."

Runaway inflation would also ensue, making the cost of living unaffordable to even middle class Americans as food prices skyrocket and international aid organizations like the World Food Programme predict rationing and food riots.

The dollar has held firm against the Euro and recovered some losses against Sterling over the past two months, but it has still lost 12 per cent of its value against the trade-weighted index over the last two years and has plunged by a whopping 60 per cent against the Euro since Bush entered the White House.

News Links
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 February 26, 2008, 10:10:15 PM
Now they have officially gone too far.
U.S. Spies Want to Find Terrorists in World of Warcraft
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx February 28, 2008, 03:31:19 AM
 9/11 Aircraft ‘Black Box’ Serial Numbers Mysteriously Absent

Aidan Monaghan
911 Blogger
February 26, 2008


Of all major U.S. airline crashes within the U.S. investigated and published by the National Transportation Safety Board during the past 20 years, the 9/11 ‘black boxes’ are virtually the only ones without listed serial numbers.

NTSB American Airlines flight 77 flight data recorder report, not noting a device serial number:…

NTSB United Airlines flight 93 flight data recorder report, not noting a device serial number:…

The United States government alleges that 4 registered Boeing commercial passenger aircraft were used in the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, yet has failed to produce any physical evidence collected from the 3 9/11 crash scenes positively tied to these federally registered United and American airlines aircraft. Despite the release of abundant information regarding the 9/11 flights and the aircraft reportedly used, specific information that would confirm official allegations regarding the identity of these aircraft has been mysteriously withheld or denied upon request.

The federally registered aircraft reportedly used during the 9/11 attacks:

- American Airlines flight 11 (N334AA), United Airlines flight 175 (N612UA), American Airlines flight 77 (N644AA) and United Airlines flight 93 (N591UA).

With flight data recorder serial number data that is virtually always provided within NTSB reports of major U.S. commercial airline crashes that occur within U.S. territory, one can trace an installed device to a particular registered aircraft through manufacturer or Federal Aviation Administration records.
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: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 February 28, 2008, 10:12:42 AM
Also, here is an interesting point made by Jesse Ventura. When an aricraft deviates from its scheduled course, there is a military escort deployed to find it. This was the case with Kennedy and he stated another case that I can't rember. How the fuck did 4 commercial airlines disappear over a 6 hour time span without any military jets being deployed to find them?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Skiiz February 28, 2008, 03:15:23 PM
Also, here is an interesting point made by Jesse Ventura. When an aricraft deviates from its scheduled course, there is a military escort deployed to find it. This was the case with Kennedy and he stated another case that I can't rember. How the fuck did 4 commercial airlines disappear over a 6 hour time span without any military jets being deployed to find them?

There's a really good answer to that, and well, the answer is, they were running hijacking war-game scenarios that day... and when you have a war-game involving the kind of attack you're facing it's hard to keep the two separate... the first thing the FAA controllers asked the pilots and thier superiors was, "is this real or games?" not that it makes it any better, but that was/is part of their explanation... that and if you read the official report it explains, if you believe it, how many air craft they had on standby (like 4 for all of the eastern half of the US), where they were (really close to the planes, so if they got sent in the wrong direction it was near impossible to get on them), when they took off (which was late as all hell), and where they were deployed (out over the ocean, or basically far away from the planes), it was a beautiful comedy of errors if I've ever seen one, and the failure only added to the thinking that it was an "inside job."

Of course i've never sat behind a air traffic controllers scope, so I can't say for shit what it's like, how hard it is or any of that, eventually they turned off the transponders which makes it a lot harder to track the planes... and if I remember correctly that's one of the things that made the flights suspicious. There isn't a satisfactory explanation, but that's what it is...
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 February 28, 2008, 04:45:24 PM
Interesting on the drills. I had never heard that before. Do you know if that is a published thing brfore it happens or is it kept quiet? 9/11 might have bben picked especially because of the drills.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy February 29, 2008, 12:55:21 PM
There were also drills the day of the London Train Bombings that , interestingly enough(and if I am accurate) were dealing with bombs in the subways ...

COincidence ?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx March 03, 2008, 03:43:50 PM
9/11 Wargames

7/7 drills
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx March 06, 2008, 02:12:40 AM
Net Neutrality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   <----please look at this
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 March 06, 2008, 02:34:24 AM
Net Neutrality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   <----please look at this

Sounds like China. Jesse Ventura got elected as governor by internet campaigning and tapping a voter pool of people who don't usually vote. The bipartisan goverment doesn't want a free media.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Cerberus March 06, 2008, 08:05:01 AM

for those of you that are really paranoid
: You Lied The Troops Died
: [Ht]LOx March 11, 2008, 11:45:54 PM
Neocon Lie Finally Debunked: Osama Not in Cahoots with Saddam

Kurt Nimmo
March 11, 2008


It comes five years and a million plus lives too late: “An exhaustive review of more than 600,000 Iraqi documents captured after the 2003 United States invasion of Iraq has found no evidence Saddam Hussein’s regime had any operational links with al Qaeda’s terrorist network,” reports McClatchy Newspapers.

At the time, some of us declared this fallacy to be nothing less than a bad joke, but we were drummed out by a massive tidal wave of absurd noise unleashed by the corporate media, taking its marching orders from the neocons.

In addition to the fairy tale about al-Qaeda, we endured another debunked fallacy — that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. Recall Bush’s hare-brained speech in Cincinnati in October, 2002, when he ominously warned “America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof — the smoking gun — that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud,” another gossamer lie cooked up by his coterie of neocon advisers, more appropriately described as his puppet masters.

“President Bush and his aides used Saddam’s alleged relationship with al Qaida, along with Iraq’s supposed weapons of mass destruction, as arguments for invading Iraq after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks,” McClatchy continues.

    Then-Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld claimed in September 2002 that the United States had “bulletproof” evidence of cooperation between the radical Islamist terror group and Saddam’s secular dictatorship.

    Then-Secretary of State Colin Powell cited multiple linkages between Saddam and al Qaida in a watershed February 2003 speech to the United Nations Security Council to build international support for the invasion. Almost every one of the examples Powell cited turned out to be based on bogus or misinterpreted intelligence.

    As recently as last July, Bush tried to tie al Qaida to the ongoing violence in Iraq. “The same people that attacked us on September the 11th is a crowd that is now bombing people, killing innocent men, women and children, many of whom are Muslims,” he said.


Powell and the neocons did not cite “bogus or misinterpreted intelligence,” they were in fact telling big fat whopper lies.

As Joseph Goebbels knew, the “stupid thick-headedness” of the people, easily frightened into submission by the specter of fantastical demons, made Hitler’s Big Lie possible. Hitler wrote in his autobiography, Mein Kampf, that the Big Lie is so “colossal” that no one would believe that someone “could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously.”

Indeed, the truth was distorted with infamy, not only in the lead-up to the invasion and mass murder spree in Iraq but in regard to the events surrounding September 11, 2001, as well. In effect, the Pentagon’s admission that the neocons had lied — it is euphemistically called “bogus or misinterpreted intelligence” by the conniving corporate media — is a slap in the face, not that most Americans, somnolent at best, feel the sting as the back hand retracts. No longer do they care what the government does in their name, as their name is obviously mud.

As well, the people, suckers by the millions, are unable to grasp the well documented fact that government is a serial killer — not simply killing Iraqis or in the not too distant past Vietnamese, but their own people, who are basically on the same level as countless — and uncounted — victims in far away places most Americans cannot find on a map.
It is not a stretch to conclude that a large degree of the popular belief about our so-called enemies is little more than an implausible myth of gigantic proportion. For instance, numerous scholars and researchers have demonstrated that al-Qaeda was created by the CIA — but most people either do not know this or refuse to believe it, preferring instead to buy the ludicrous fantasy that Osama bin Laden and his supposed gaggle of dour cave dwelling Muslim terrorists not only came into existence all on their own without the assistance of government and intelligence agencies, but also managed to have NORAD stand down and were able to perform impossible aeronautic feats with humongous airliners.

Now that the Pentagon has fessed up to the fact Saddam and Osama did not collaborate — and remember, the neocons told us these two characters plotted to attack America, and that’s why the United States invaded Afghanistan and Iraq — maybe the CIA can fess up to its lies and misdeeds.


For those a bit sketchy on history, allow me to repeat a few key points at the risk of redundancy — both what would later become known as al-Qaeda and the Taliban emerged from the Mujihadeen in Afghanistan, a motley assemblage of religious fanatics used by Zbigniew Brzezinski, acting as Jimmy Carter’s national security advisor, and his successors to attack the Soviet presence in that remote corner of the world. Brzezinski and the CIA teamed up with the brutal Pakistan military dictator General Zia ul-Haq to spread Wahabi fundamentalism far and wide in Central Asia and the Middle East. In fact, the United States preferred demented religious fanatics over the less mentally unstable.

Norm Dixon writes:

    Washington’s favored mujaheddin faction was one of the most extreme, led by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. The West’s distaste for terrorism did not apply to this unsavory “freedom fighter”. Hekmatyar was notorious in the 1970s for throwing acid in the faces of women who refused to wear the veil.

    After the mujaheddin took Kabul in 1992, Hekmatyar’s forces rained US-supplied missiles and rockets on that city — killing at least 2000 civilians — until the new government agreed to give him the post of prime minister. Osama bin Laden was a close associate of Hekmatyar and his faction.

As Dixon notes, between 1978 and 1992, the United States spent at least US$6 billion — some estimates range as high as $20 billion – for arms, training and funds to keep the murderous mujaheddin factions going like a rabid Energizer bunny. During the mid-1980s, according to journalist Ahmed Rashid, the CIA “committed … support to a long-standing ISI proposal to recruit from around the world to join the Afghan jihad. At least 100,000 Islamic militants flocked to Pakistan between 1982 and 1992 (some 60,000 attended fundamentalist schools in Pakistan without necessarily taking part in the fighting).” Some of the more promising candidates were sent to the CIA’s spy training camp in Virginia, where they were taught “sabotage skills” of the sort that would come in handy during the bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. After these events, the word “al-Qaeda” would appear increasingly in the corporate media.

“Al Qaeda (the Base), bin Laden’s organization, was established in 1987-88 to run the camps and other business enterprises. It is a tightly-run capitalist holding company — albeit one that integrates the operations of a mercenary force and related logistical services with ‘legitimate’ business operations,” writes Dixon, who seems to think Osama bin Laden, as a CIA-ISI operative, went off the reservation after the Soviets were evicted from Afghanistan. Of course, such defections — especially by key personnel involved in multi-billion dollar operations — are the improbable exception and not the rule.

The drug and gun-running KLA teamed up with al-Qaeda in the Balkans.

So useful was al-Qaeda, they were employed elsewhere, most notably in the Balkans. “In a cruel irony, while the Islamic jihad — featured by the Bush Administration as ‘a threat to America’ — is blamed for the terrorist assaults on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, these same Islamic organizations constitute a key instrument of US military-intelligence operations in the Balkans and the former Soviet Union,” Michel Chossudovsky wrote on September 12, 2001. As it turns out, Osama bin Laden’s CIA sponsored operation, Maktab al-Khidamat, was instrumental in running Jihadists into Bosnia out of its Brooklyn, New York branch, known as the Al-Kifah Refugee Center, a fact reported by the Associated Press.

Indeed, al-Qaeda served as “a key instrument of US military-intelligence operations” in the United States as well, although such a band of fanatics and demonstrable mental cases would be unable to pull of an operation of the sort that occurred on September 11, 2001. “Planning the attacks was a master deed, in technical and organizational terms,” notes Andreas von Bülow, the former state-secretary in the German Federal Ministry of Defense. “To hijack four big airliners within a few minutes and fly them into targets within a single hour and doing so on complicated flight routes! That is unthinkable, without backing from the secret apparatuses of state and industry.” For more detail on how the CIA and Pentagon ran the operations of September 11, see the video included here, The Underlying Politics of 9/11.

As should be expected, there is more – much more – to the story and it would take several thick books to spell it all out in detail.

Now that the Pentagon report on the Big Lie concerning the once purported Osama-Saddam link is in the process of undergoing a “painful” declassification review, it is time for the same to happen in regard to the events surrounding September 11, 2001. Let’s begin with a new investigation — this time conducted by people not associated with the Bush crime family.

Of course, this will not happen, not without a fundamental change in the government, in fact a radical change within the government. Dare I say practically the entire government would need to be replaced for this to happen? It is an unlikely prospect, especially considering a large number of people believe a man such as Barack Obama represents change. Incidentally or not, Obama has enlisted the help of the above mentioned Zbigniew Brzezinski, the man who dreamed up al-Qaeda.

In the meantime, I’m going to wish for a pony.

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: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD March 12, 2008, 09:40:56 AM
one thing that gets glossed over about the first World trade center bombing is that the govt informant imbedded with the terrorists had to teach them how to build the actual bomb that blew up in the parking garage under one of the towers,he basically was the driving force behind the bomb being constructed.

this all came out in the trial in sworn testimony.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx March 13, 2008, 01:25:53 AM
Ex-NY Mayor Ed Koch Faults Giuliani for Destroying Evidence 9/11 Crime Scene


Former New York Mayor Ed Koch told WeAreChange reporters during a book signing that he indeed faulted Giuliani for destroying criminal evidence at the 9/11 scene.

"For removing evidence, I fault him on that, along with a lot of other things," Koch told cameras.

Indeed Giuliani’s Administration has been criticized for the removal of steel evidence and its sale to scrapyards in China and India, for the callous act of using remains at ground zero to fill pot holes and for sending the leftovers (that included human remains) to Fresh Kills landfill en masse.

However, Koch quickly dismissed a series of questions he considered to be ‘engaged in a conspiracy theory.’ "There are people who believe… those buildings were loaded with dynamite. You wanna believe it, believe it. I don’t."

The colorful former mayor instead parroted concerns about the world-wide Islamist conspiracy. "We’re the number one super power, and we have to defend ourselves. I believe there’s an Islamist conspiracy to restore the Caliphate meaning all muslim countries shall be under the rule of one religioius leader."

Koch brushed off an array of other questions.

MORE ON KOCH from Wikipedia: Apparently Koch had been targeted for murder circa 1976 in relation to Operation: Condor by the Uruguayan military. Koch says George H.W. Bush, then CIA director, told him that "his sponsorship of legislation to cut off US military assistance to Uruguay on human rights grounds had provoked secret police officials to ‘put a contract out for you’."

Also on Condor: On September 11, 2001, the 28th anniversary of the Pinochet coup, Chilean human rights lawyers filed a criminal case against Kissinger along with Augusto Pinochet, former Bolivian general and president Hugo Banzer, former Argentine general and dictator Jorge Rafael Videla, and former Paraguayan president Alfredo Stroessner for alleged involvement in Operation Condor. The case was brought on behalf of some fifteen victims of Operation Condor, ten of whom were Chilean.[citation needed]

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: WeAreChange confronts Bo Dietl
: [Ht]LOx March 17, 2008, 09:46:57 PM

  Economic Fallout: the Tent Cities of California

March 16, 2008

In California, it is the Grapes of Wrath all over again, minus the migration. Somebody please send this link to Rush Limbaugh and the neocons, who seem to think all of the homeless are drunks and drug addicts.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 March 17, 2008, 11:18:03 PM

I don't know if this has ever been posted here before but I found this movie fascinating. Lox, you need to watch it all. I know everybody won't to watch 2 hours of this stuff but it was interesting and the highlights are at least worth reading.
It has 3 parts; 1)religion and how they stole money in early times when they were essentially the government 2) how the US government caused the depression and stole the wealth especially the forced recall of all gold 3) how 911 is a stepping stone to a one world government and how profitable war is for the ruling elite.

If Lox had the time to produce a quality video, I think this would be it.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx March 18, 2008, 02:30:47 AM
yeah i've seen this movie
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 March 18, 2008, 11:48:01 AM
Here is the scary thing about zeitgiest; they have a 40 page document that backs up their video.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD March 18, 2008, 05:28:04 PM
all these economic situations all lead to the consolidation of wealth,whether its the severe downturn in the stock market or the current sub prime lending fiasco.

all the money spent in those morgages ended up in the national home building companies that were cranking out houses and then setting up deals with morgage lenders to get ppl into houses that the banks knew were way out of the range of these same ppl.they all saw this huge pay out coming when the loan interest rates were adjusted upwards,that greed is the reason that bear stearns was sold for about 2 cents on the dollar over the last weekend.

back in the 90's during the dotcom boom, everyone and their brother figured they could get rich in the stock market so they put every dime they could come up with into the market,once it got to the point that the market had soaked up as much cash as it could the rug was pulled out from under those same ppl.

the one thing in common in these and other boom/bust cycles is that the cash doesn't disappear, it just ends up in the pockets of ppl that can afford to first sell those stocks in the beggining and then swoop in after the downturn and buy back those same issues at bargain basement prices.

the same thing happened to the japaneses in the 80's when everone was talking about how the japanese economy was booming and we had large real estate deals going on all over the country,these rich japanese were buying US properties like rockerfeller center and the dunes casino in las vegas at premium prices then had the market take a sharp downturn which forced them to sell those same properties back at fire sale prices.

its all about the consolidation of wealth.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 March 18, 2008, 07:19:00 PM
A lot of guys think Lox is wearing a tin foil hat. Some of the theories are out there but at the very least people who want this shit to happen. It is like Nazi Germany, they just have to find out a way to make it happen. If Ron Paul should get elected president, it will be because of his very smart internet campaign. If this happens, they will want to control the internet more like China.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx March 20, 2008, 06:00:40 AM
like i have said many times........

1st - blow out the economy

2nd - take our guns so we cannot fight back against the tyranny

3rd - bring us into martial law  26,000 Pastors for Martial Law Continuity of Government

Ohh....... yeah cheney doesn't give a fuck about how you feel about iraq

On the fifth anniversary of President George W. Bush's invasion of Iraq, President Bush said he has no doubts about waging the unpopular war despite the "high cost in lives and treasure."

Vice President Dick Cheney had a different message. Informed during a Good Morning America interview broadcast Wednesday that two-thirds of Americans now think the war was not worth fighting, Cheney said: "So?"

"So you don't care what the American people think?" ABC's Martha Raddatz asked.

He added: "I think we cannot be blown off course by the fluctuations of the public opinion polls.

scroll down on this link for the video of him saying it

The White House later released a transcript which shows that Cheney's first response wasn't "so" as ABC presented on its broadcast.


: Will Homeland Security the Militarized Police State Shock You Into Submission?
: [Ht]LOx March 24, 2008, 04:02:28 AM
Karen De Coster
LRC Blog
March 23, 2008

This is perhaps one of the most kooky and creepy Security State tactics that I have come across: the EMD safety bracelet, which is being billed as the "last line of defence." A company called Lamperd Firearm Training Systems (scroll down) is trying to commercialize this item as an "airline security product." The company’s video that hawks this device talks about the current facial recognition system called biometrics, where cameras capture photos of people and compare those images to the images of "terrorists" in its "terrorist" database. No matter how sophisticated this technology, it can all too often allow a terrorist on board a plane, and, this technology can also have the effect of creating airport bottlenecks. Ahem. The solution? The "viable, workable answer" is an electronic ID bracelet. This bracelet will replace the need for a ticket and contain all necessary information about the person, and as a bonus, it can allow the passenger to be tracked through the terminal. Crew members would be empowered with radio frequency transmitters to subdue "hijackers." The technology will override a person’s central nervous system and zap them down quicker than you can say "Homeland Security." The company assures us that being dragged through the bracelet process is a "small inconvenience in order to assure your safe arrival." In fact, its studies show that most people would "happily opt" for wearing the bracelet to "insure their own security."

Here’s the Lamperd video on YouTube - you must watch it. Here’s the patent for this device. The patent actually reads this:

    Upon activation of the electric shock device, through receipt of an activating signal from the selectively operable remote control means, the passenger wearing that particular bracelet receives the disabling electrical shock from the electric shock device. Accordingly, the passenger becomes incapacitated for a few seconds or perhaps a few minutes, during which time the passenger can be fully subdued and handcuffed, if necessary. Depending on the type of transmission medium used to send the activating signal, other passengers may also become temporarily incapacitated, which is undesirable and unfortunate, but may be unavoidable.

Lamperd even posts a series of letters on its website showing interest in the product for use "outside of airport security," which, of course, is the real reason for the product. Why it can be used for border control to subdue illegal aliens or by local law enforcement agencies to control the "criminal element!"

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: The Role of the CIA: Behind the Dalai Lama’s Holy Cloak
: [Ht]LOx March 24, 2008, 04:13:18 AM
Michael Backman
Global Research
March 23, 2008

Global Research Editor’s note

This incisive article by Michael Backman outlines the relationship of the Dalai Lama and his organization to US intelligence.

The Dalai Lama has been on the CIA payroll since the late 1950s. He is an instrument of US intelligence.

An understanding of this longstanding relationship to the CIA is essential, particuarly in the light of recent events. In all likelihood US intelligence was behind the protest movement, organized to occur a few months prior to the Beijing Olympic games.

M. C. 23 March 2008

Rarely do journalists challenge the Dalai Lama.

Partly it is because he is so charming and engaging. Most published accounts of him breeze on as airily as the subject, for whom a good giggle and a quaint parable are substitutes for hard answers. But this is the man who advocates greater autonomy for millions of people who are currently Chinese citizens, presumably with him as head of their government. So, why not hold him accountable as a political figure?

No mere spiritual leader, he was the head of Tibet’s government when he went into exile in 1959. It was a state apparatus run by aristocratic, nepotistic monks that collected taxes, jailed and tortured dissenters and engaged in all the usual political intrigues. (The Dalai Lama’s own father was almost certainly murdered in 1946, the consequence of a coup plot.)

The government set up in exile in India and, at least until the 1970s, received $US1.7 million a year from the CIA.

The money was to pay for guerilla operations against the Chinese, notwithstanding the Dalai Lama’s public stance in support of non-violence, for which he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989.

The Dalai Lama himself was on the CIA’s payroll from the late 1950s until 1974, reportedly receiving $US15,000 a month ($US180,000 a year).

The funds were paid to him personally, but he used all or most of them for Tibetan government-in-exile activities, principally to fund offices in New York and Geneva, and to lobby internationally.

Details of the government-in-exile’s funding today are far from clear. Structurally, it comprises seven departments and several other special offices. There have also been charitable trusts, a publishing company, hotels in India and Nepal, and a handicrafts distribution company in the US and in Australia, all grouped under the government-in-exile’s Department of Finance.

The government was involved in running 24 businesses in all, but decided in 2003 that it would withdraw from these because such commercial involvement was not appropriate.

Several years ago, I asked the Dalai Lama’s Department of Finance for details of its budget. In response, it claimed then to have annual revenue of about $US22 million, which it spent on various health, education, religious and cultural programs.

The biggest item was for politically related expenditure, at $US7 million. The next biggest was administration, which ran to $US4.5 million. Almost $US2 million was allocated to running the government-in-exile’s overseas offices.

For all that the government-in-exile claims to do, these sums seemed remarkably low.

It is not clear how donations enter its budgeting. These are likely to run to many millions annually, but the Dalai Lama’s Department of Finance provided no explicit acknowledgment of them or of their sources.

Certainly, there are plenty of rumours among expatriate Tibetans of endemic corruption and misuse of monies collected in the name of the Dalai Lama.

Many donations are channelled through the New York-based Tibet Fund, set up in 1981 by Tibetan refugees and US citizens. It has grown into a multimillion-dollar organisation that disburses $US3 million each year to its various programs.

Part of its funding comes from the US State Department’s Bureau for Refugee Programs.

Like many Asian politicians, the Dalai Lama has been remarkably nepotistic, appointing members of his family to many positions of prominence. In recent years, three of the six members of the Kashag, or cabinet, the highest executive branch of the Tibetan government-in-exile, have been close relatives of the Dalai Lama.

An older brother served as chairman of the Kashag and as the minister of security. He also headed the CIA-backed Tibetan contra movement in the 1960s.

A sister-in-law served as head of the government-in-exile’s planning council and its Department of Health.

A younger sister served as health and education minister and her husband served as head of the government-in-exile’s Department of Information and International Relations.

Their daughter was made a member of the Tibetan parliament in exile. A younger brother has served as a senior member of the private office of the Dalai Lama and his wife has served as education minister.

The second wife of a brother-in-law serves as the representative of the Tibetan government-in-exile for northern Europe and head of international relations for the government-in-exile. All these positions give the Dalai Lama’s family access to millions of dollars collected on behalf of the government-in-exile.

The Dalai Lama might now be well-known but few really know much about him. For example, contrary to widespread belief, he is not a vegetarian. He eats meat. He has done so (he claims) on a doctor’s advice following liver complications from hepatitis. I have checked with several doctors but none agrees that meat consumption is necessary or even desirable for a damaged liver.

What has the Dalai Lama actually achieved for Tibetans inside Tibet?

If his goal has been independence for Tibet or, more recently, greater autonomy, then he has been a miserable failure.

He has kept Tibet on the front pages around the world, but to what end? The main achievement seems to have been to become a celebrity. Possibly, had he stayed quiet, fewer Tibetans might have been tortured, killed and generally suppressed by China.

In any event, the current Dalai Lama is 72 years old. His successor — a reincarnation — will be appointed as a child and it will be many years before he plays a meaningful role. As far as China is concerned, that is one problem that will take care of itself, irrespective of whether or not John Howard or Kevin Rudd meet the current Dalai Lama.

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: D.C. Gun Crackdown Meets Community Resistance
: [Ht]LOx March 25, 2008, 12:59:02 AM
NBC 4 D.C.
March 24, 2008

Police are asking residents to submit to voluntary searches in exchange for amnesty under the District’s gun ban. They passed out fliers requesting cooperation on Monday.

The program will begin in a couple of weeks in the Washington Highlands neighborhood of southeast Washington and will later expand to other neighborhoods. Officers will go door to door asking residents for permission to search their homes.

Police Chief Cathy L. Lanier said the “safe homes initiative” is aimed at residents who want to cooperate with police. She gave the example of parents or grandparents who know or suspect their children have guns in the home.

Community leaders went door to door in Ward 8 Monday to advise residents not to invite police into their homes to search for weapons.

“Bad idea,” said D.C. School Board member William Lockridge. “I think the people should not open your doors under any circumstances, don’t even crack your door, unless someone has a warrant for your arrest.”

Ron Hampton, of the Black Police Officers Association, said he doesn't expect many in the community to comply.

"This is one of those communities where the police even have problems getting information about crimes that are going on in the community, so to suggest, now, that the police have enough community capital in their hand that the community is going to cooperate with them, I'm not so sure that's a good idea," Hampton said.

If weapons are recovered, they will be tested and destroyed if they are not found to be linked to any other crimes.

A police spokeswoman said that if evidence of other crimes is found during voluntary searches, amnesty will be granted for that crime as well.

"Chief Lanier has been clear," Traci Hughes said. "Amnesty means amnesty."
: Alex Jones Discusses False Flag Operations
: [Ht]LOx March 28, 2008, 02:17:36 AM
March 28, 2008
: McCain Urges New Global Compact — A “League of Democracies”
: [Ht]LOx March 28, 2008, 02:18:47 AM
Remarks By John McCain To The Los Angeles World Affairs Council | March 27, 2008

Key Quote: "We cannot build an enduring peace based on freedom by ourselves, and we do not want to. We have to strengthen our global alliances as the core of a new global compact — a League of Democracies…"

ARLINGTON, VA — U.S. Senator John McCain’s will deliver the following remarks as prepared for delivery today at the World Affairs Council in Los Angeles, California:

When I was five years old, a car pulled up in front of our house in New London, Connecticut, and a Navy officer rolled down the window, and shouted at my father that the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor. My father immediately left for the submarine base where he was stationed. I rarely saw him again for four years. My grandfather, who commanded the fast carrier task force under Admiral Halsey, came home from the war exhausted from the burdens he had borne, and died the next day. In Vietnam, where I formed the closest friendships of my life, some of those friends never came home to the country they loved so well. I detest war. It might not be the worst thing to befall human beings, but it is wretched beyond all description. When nations seek to resolve their differences by force of arms, a million tragedies ensue. The lives of a nation’s finest patriots are sacrificed. Innocent people suffer and die. Commerce is disrupted; economies are damaged; strategic interests shielded by years of patient statecraft are endangered as the exigencies of war and diplomacy conflict. Not the valor with which it is fought nor the nobility of the cause it serves, can glorify war. Whatever gains are secured, it is loss the veteran remembers most keenly. Only a fool or a fraud sentimentalizes the merciless reality of war. However heady the appeal of a call to arms, however just the cause, we should still shed a tear for all that is lost when war claims its wages from us.

I am an idealist, and I believe it is possible in our time to make the world we live in another, better, more peaceful place, where our interests and those of our allies are more secure, and American ideals that are transforming the world, the principles of free people and free markets, advance even farther than they have. But I am, from hard experience and the judgment it informs, a realistic idealist. I know we must work very hard and very creatively to build new foundations for a stable and enduring peace. We cannot wish the world to be a better place than it is. We have enemies for whom no attack is too cruel, and no innocent life safe, and who would, if they could, strike us with the world’s most terrible weapons. There are states that support them, and which might help them acquire those weapons because they share with terrorists the same animating hatred for the West, and will not be placated by fresh appeals to the better angels of their nature. This is the central threat of our time, and we must understand the implications of our decisions on all manner of regional and global challenges could have for our success in defeating it.

President Harry Truman once said of America, "God has created us and brought us to our present position of power and strength for some great purpose." In his time, that purpose was to contain Communism and build the structures of peace and prosperity that could provide safe passage through the Cold War. Now it is our turn. We face a new set of opportunities, and also new dangers. The developments of science and technology have brought us untold prosperity, eradicated disease, and reduced the suffering of millions. We have a chance in our lifetime to raise the world to a new standard of human existence. Yet these same technologies have produced grave new risks, arming a few zealots with the ability to murder millions of innocents, and producing a global industrialization that can in time threaten our planet.

To meet this challenge requires understanding the world we live in, and the central role the United States must play in shaping it for the future. The United States must lead in the 21st century, just as in Truman’s day. But leadership today means something different than it did in the years after World War II, when Europe and the other democracies were still recovering from the devastation of war and the United States was the only democratic superpower. Today we are not alone. There is the powerful collective voice of the European Union, and there are the great nations of India and Japan, Australia and Brazil, South Korea and South Africa, Turkey and Israel, to name just a few of the leading democracies. There are also the increasingly powerful nations of China and Russia that wield great influence in the international system.

In such a world, where power of all kinds is more widely and evenly distributed, the United States cannot lead by virtue of its power alone. We must be strong politically, economically, and militarily. But we must also lead by attracting others to our cause, by demonstrating once again the virtues of freedom and democracy, by defending the rules of international civilized society and by creating the new international institutions necessary to advance the peace and freedoms we cherish. Perhaps above all, leadership in today’s world means accepting and fulfilling our responsibilities as a great nation.

One of those responsibilities is to be a good and reliable ally to our fellow democracies. We cannot build an enduring peace based on freedom by ourselves, and we do not want to. We have to strengthen our global alliances as the core of a new global compact — a League of Democracies — that can harness the vast influence of the more than one hundred democratic nations around the world to advance our values and defend our shared interests.

At the heart of this new compact must be mutual respect and trust. Recall the words of our founders in the Declaration of Independence, that we pay "decent respect to the opinions of mankind." Our great power does not mean we can do whatever we want whenever we want, nor should we assume we have all the wisdom and knowledge necessary to succeed. We need to listen to the views and respect the collective will of our democratic allies. When we believe international action is necessary, whether military, economic, or diplomatic, we will try to persuade our friends that we are right. But we, in return, must be willing to be persuaded by them.

America must be a model citizen if we want others to look to us as a model. How we behave at home affects how we are perceived abroad. We must fight the terrorists and at the same time defend the rights that are the foundation of our society. We can’t torture or treat inhumanely suspected terrorists we have captured. I believe we should close Guantanamo and work with our allies to forge a new international understanding on the disposition of dangerous detainees under our control.

There is such a thing as international good citizenship. We need to be good stewards of our planet and join with other nations to help preserve our common home. The risks of global warming have no borders. We and the other nations of the world must get serious about substantially reducing greenhouse gas emissions in the coming years or we will hand off a much-diminished world to our grandchildren. We need a successor to the Kyoto Treaty, a cap-and-trade system that delivers the necessary environmental impact in an economically responsible manner. We Americans must lead by example and encourage the participation of the rest of the world, including most importantly, the developing economic powerhouses of China and India.

Four and a half decades ago, John Kennedy described the people of Latin America as our "firm and ancient friends, united by history and experience and by our determination to advance the values of American civilization." With globalization, our hemisphere has grown closer, more integrated, and more interdependent. Latin America today is increasingly vital to the fortunes of the United States. Americans north and south share a common geography and a common destiny. The countries of Latin America are the natural partners of the United States, and our northern neighbor Canada.

Relations with our southern neighbors must be governed by mutual respect, not by an imperial impulse or by anti-American demagoguery. The promise of North, Central, and South American life is too great for that. I believe the Americas can and must be the model for a new 21st century relationship between North and South. Ours can be the first completely democratic hemisphere, where trade is free across all borders, where the rule of law and the power of free markets advance the security and prosperity of all.

Power in the world today is moving east; the Asia-Pacific region is on the rise. Together with our democratic partner of many decades, Japan, we can grasp the opportunities present in the unfolding world and this century can become safe — both American and Asian, both prosperous and free. Asia has made enormous strides in recent decades. Its economic achievements are well known; less known is that more people live under democratic rule in Asia than in any other region of the world.

News Links
: Is an International Financial Conspiracy Driving World Events?
: [Ht]LOx March 31, 2008, 07:01:38 AM
Richard C. Cook
Global Research
March 30, 2008

"They make a desolation and call it peace." -Tacitus

Was Alan Greenspan really as dumb as he looks in creating the late housing bubble that threatens to bring the entire Western debt-based economy crashing down?

Was something as easy to foresee as this really the trigger for a meltdown that could destroy the world’s financial system? Or was it done, perhaps, "accidentally on purpose"?

And if so, why?

Let’s turn to the U.S. personage that conspiracy theorists most often mention as being at the epicenter of whatever elite plan is reputed to exist. This would be David Rockefeller, the 92-year-old multibillionaire godfather of the world’s financial elite.

The lengthy Wikipedia article on Rockefeller provides the following version of a celebrated statement he allegedly made in an opening speech at the Bilderberg conference in Baden-Baden, Germany, in June 1991:

    "We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time magazine, and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during these years. But the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government which will never again know war, but only peace and prosperity for the whole of humanity. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in the past centuries."

This speech was made 17 years ago. It came at the beginning in the U.S. of the Bill Clinton administration. Rockefeller speaks of an "us." This "us," he says, has been having meetings for almost 40 years. If you add the 17 years since he gave the speech it was 57 years ago—two full generations.

Not only has "us" developed a "plan for the world," but the attempt to "develop" the plan has evidently been successful, at least in Rockefeller’s mind. The ultimate goal of "us" is to create "the supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers." This will lead, he says, toward a "world government which will never again know war."

Just as an intellectual exercise, let’s assume that David Rockefeller is as important and powerful a person as he seems to think he is. Let’s give the man some credit and assume that he and "us" have in fact succeeded to a degree. This would mean that the major decisions and events since Rockefeller gave the speech in 1991 have probably also been part of the plan or that they have at least represented its features and intent.

Therefore by examining these decisions and events we can determine whether in fact Rockefeller is being truthful in his assessment that the Utopia he has in mind is on its way or has at least come closer to being realized. In no particular order, some of these decisions and events are as follows:

The implementation of the North American Free Trade Agreement by the Bill Clinton and George W. Bush administrations has led to the elimination of millions of U.S. manufacturing jobs as well as the destruction of U.S. family farming in favor of global agribusiness.

Similar free trade agreements, including those under the auspices of the World Trade Organization, have led to export of millions of additional manufacturing jobs to China and elsewhere.

Average family income in the U.S. has steadily eroded while the share of the nation’s wealth held by the richest income brackets has soared. Some Wall Street hedge fund managers are making $1 billion a year while the number of homeless, including war veterans, pushes a million.

The housing bubble has led to a huge inflation of real estate prices in the U.S. Millions of homes are falling into the hands of the bankers through foreclosure. The cost of land and rentals has further decimated family agriculture as well as small business. Rising property taxes based on inflated land assessments have forced millions of lower-and middle-income people and elderly out of their homes.

The fact that bankers now control national monetary systems in their entirety, under laws where money is introduced only through lending at interest, has resulted in a massive debt pyramid that is teetering on collapse. This "monetarist" system was pioneered by Rockefeller-family funded economists at the University of Chicago. The rub is that when the pyramid comes down and everyone goes bankrupt the banks which have been creating money "out of thin air" will then be able to seize valuable assets for pennies on the dollar, as J.P. Morgan Chase is preparing to do with the businesses owned by Carlyle Capital. Meaningful regulation of the financial industry has been abandoned by government, and any politician that stands in the way, such as Eliot Spitzer, is destroyed.

The total tax burden on Americans from federal, state, and local governments now exceeds forty percent of income and is rising. Today, with a recession starting, the Democratic-controlled Congress, while supporting the minuscule "stimulus" rebate, is hypocritically raising taxes further, even for middle-income earners. Back taxes, along with student loans, can no longer be eliminated by bankruptcy protection.

Gasoline prices are soaring even as companies like Exxon-Mobil are recording record profits. Other commodity prices are going up steadily, including food prices, with some countries starting to experience near-famine conditions. 40 million people in America are officially classified as "food insecure."

Corporate control of water and mineral resources has removed much of what is available from the public commons, and the deregulation of energy production has led to huge increases in the costs of electricity in many areas.

The destruction of family farming in the U.S. by NAFTA (along with family farming in Mexico and Canada) has been mirrored by policies toward other nations on the part of the International Monetary Fund and World Bank. Around the world, due to pressure from the "Washington consensus," local food self-sufficiency has been replaced by raising of crops primarily for export. Migration off the land has fed the population of huge slums around the cities of underdeveloped countries.

Since the 1980s the U.S. has been fighting wars throughout the world either directly or by proxy. The former Yugoslavia was dismembered by NATO. Under cover of 9/11 and by utilizing off-the-shelf plans, the U.S. is now engaged in the military conquest and permanent military occupation of the Middle East. A worldwide encirclement of Russia and China by U.S. and NATO forces is underway, and a new push to militarize space has begun. The Western powers are clearly preparing for at least the possibility of another world war.

The expansion of the U.S. military empire abroad is mirrored by the creation of a totalitarian system of surveillance at home, whereby the activities of private citizens are spied upon and tracked by technology and systems which have been put into place under the heading of the "War on Terror." Human microchip implants for tracking purposes are starting to be used. The military-industrial complex has become the nation’s largest and most successful industry with tens of thousands of planners engaged in devising new and better ways, both overt and covert, to destroy both foreign and domestic "enemies."

Meanwhile, the U.S. has the largest prison population of any country on earth. Plus everyday life for millions of people is a crushing burden of government, insurance, and financial fees, charges, and paperwork. And the simplest business transactions are burdened by rake-offs for legions of accountants, lawyers, bureaucrats, brokers, speculators, and middlemen.

Finally, the deteriorating conditions of everyday life have given rise to an extraordinary level of stress-related disease, as well as epidemic alcohol and drug addiction. Governments themselves around the world engage in drug trafficking. Instead of working to lower stress levels, public policy is skewed in favor of an enormous prescription drug industry that grows rich off the declining level of health through treatment of symptoms rather than causes. Many of these heavily-advertised medications themselves have devastating side-effects.

This list should at least give us enough to go on in order to ask a hard question. Assuming again that all these things are parts of the elitist plan which Mr. Rockefeller boasts to have been developing, isn’t it a little strange that the means which have been selected to achieve "peace and prosperity for the whole of humanity" involve so much violence, deception, oppression, exploitation, graft, and theft?

In fact it looks to me as though "our plan for the world" is one that is based on genocide, world war, police control of populations, and seizure of the world’s resources by the financial elite and their puppet politicians and military forces.

In particular, could there be a better way to accomplish all this than what appears to be a concentrated plan to remove from people everywhere in the world the ability to raise their own food? After all, genocide by starvation may be slow, but it is very effective. Especially when it can be blamed on "market forces."

And can it be that the "us" which is doing all these things, including the great David Rockefeller himself, are just criminals who have somehow taken over the seats of power? If so, they are criminals who have done everything they can to watch their backs and cover their tracks, including a chokehold over the educational system and the monopolistic mainstream media.

One thing is certain: The voters of America have never knowingly agreed to any of this.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 March 31, 2008, 11:15:00 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if this housing crash wasn't created like the great depression. The great depression was a grab at the nation's gold wealth and now it will be a grab at the nations land wealth. I have told my wife that if somebody had great wealth to buy up some of these overdeveloped undersold neighborhoods, they could make a fortune in the future.

And, that gasoline prices. Didn't we break up AT&T to prevent price gouging like this in the past? It is "shocking" how the president and congress allows this crap now.
: Sub-prime mortgage watchdogs kept on leash
: [Ht]LOx April 01, 2008, 02:15:35 AM
Loan checkers say their warnings of risk were met with indifference

By E. Scott Reckard | Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
March 17, 2008

They could see the meltdown coming.

Freelance financial watchdogs who examined the paperwork on sub-prime home loans being sold to Wall Street had an inside view of the boom in easy-money lending this decade. The reviewers say they raised plenty of red flags about flaws so serious that mortgages should have been rejected outright -- such as borrowers' incomes that seemed inflated or documents that looked fake -- but the problems were glossed over, ignored or stricken from reports.

The loan reviewers' role was just one of several safeguards -- including home appraisals, lending standards and ratings on mortgage-backed bonds -- that were built into the country's complex mortgage-financing system. But in the chain of brokers, lenders and investment banks that transformed mortgages into securities sold worldwide, no one seemed to care about loans that looked bad from the start. Yet profit abounded -- until defaults spawned hundreds of billions of dollars in losses on mortgage-backed securities.

"The investors were paying us big money to filter this business," said Cesar P. Valenz, one of the loan checkers. "It's like with water. If you don't filter it, it's dangerous. And it didn't get filtered."

As foreclosures mount and home prices skid, the loan review function, known as due diligence, is gaining attention. The FBI is conducting more than a dozen probes into whether companies along the financing chain concealed problems with mortgages. And a presidential working group has blamed the sub-prime debacle in part on a lack of diligence by investment banks, rating firms and mortgage-bond buyers.

"Although market participants had economic incentives to conduct due diligence," the group said in a policy statement, "the steps they took were insufficient." To prevent mortgage crises, the group recommended increased disclosure of "the level and scope of due diligence performed" on home loans underlying the securities.

At the height of the sub-prime era, such disclosure wouldn't have been pretty, the freelance loan checkers say.

In interviews with The Times, eight experienced loan reviewers said that as marginal lending increased, quantity took precedence over quality. Squads of 10 to 15 veteran loan checkers gave way, they said, to packs of 40 to 50 mostly novice reviewers posted at or near sub-prime factories such as now-defunct Orange County lenders New Century Financial Corp. and Ameriquest Mortgage Co.

Executives at the two main firms that hired the freelancers -- Shelton, Conn.-based Clayton Holdings Inc. and San Francisco-based Bohan Group -- say the reviewers weren't there to find every potential problem with a sub-prime loan. Rather, the executives say, the job was to perform specific tests to help buyers determine how much to pay for a pool of loans. In some cases, the investors wanted only minimal testing, said Frank P. Filipps, Clayton's chairman and CEO.

"The client really drives the process," Filipps said.

Sub-prime mortgages skyrocketed in popularity -- with the volume of sub-prime-backed securities soaring from $13 billion in 1995 to $594 billion in 2005 and $521 billion in 2006 -- and business exploded for Clayton and Bohan. At the peak, Clayton had about 900 loan-review contractors working for it at any given time, and privately held Bohan had about 350. At publicly held Clayton, revenue rose from $19 million in 2000 to $239.2 million in 2006.

As time passed, Clayton and Bohan executives said, Wall Street firms and their investor customers accepted increasing levels of default and fraud in sub-prime loans as they grew to trust software designed to offset those risks by charging higher interest rates, extra fees and penalties for paying off mortgages early.

As Wall Street grew more comfortable, it demanded less of the review process. Early in the decade, a securities firm might have asked Clayton to review 25% to 40% of the sub-prime loans in a pool, compared with typically 10% in 2006, although the requirements varied, Filipps said.

By contrast, loan buyers who kept the mortgages as an investment instead of packaging them into securities would have 50% to 100% of the loans examined, Bohan President Mark Hughes said.

But the freelancers interviewed by The Times never got the memo that their reviews were supposed to be nice and easy. Flying from city to city and typically paid $30 to $40 an hour, with expenses covered, the reviewers say they worked conscientiously to assure the investment banks and mortgage-bond investors that no surprises lay in the files.

Loan reviewer Jana Lujan recalled showing a file to a supervisor in 2004, during a check of sub-prime mortgages made by a Brea bank that regulators later cited for unsound lending. A title report showed a tax lien on the property.

"I said we needed evidence it had been paid off and released," to ensure against foreclosure, Lujan said. "And he said: 'Just go ahead. Assume it's being taken care of.' "

Loan-buyer representatives who were on site during the reviews also showed little interest in the details, Lujan said.

Lujan said one Clayton supervisor would throw away documents that appeared to have been altered fraudulently. The lack of a document in the file meant the loan had to be sold at a slight discount, she said, but it still could be sold.

Lujan, Valenz and one other loan checker said supervisors at Clayton and Bohan also would change the way fees were described so that mortgages would not be red-flagged as potentially predatory under U.S. law, which would render them unsalable and force the sellers to take them back.

Filipps said he wasn't aware that anyone at Clayton had changed fee categories to bring loans into compliance. He said discarding of documents had never been brought to his attention.

At Bohan, Hughes said he had heard of lenders, but not employees of loan-review firms, throwing documents away. He described attempts to change fee classifications as not unheard of in the industry, but he added that Bohan didn't tolerate such misrepresentations.

New York Atty. Gen. Andrew Cuomo, who is investigating some aspects of the mortgage debacle, has given Clayton immunity from prosecution in return for help in learning whether debt-rating firms and investors got enough information about the loans being sold.

Calling the immunity deal misguided, former Clayton contractors say Clayton and Bohan knowingly understated problems in loan pools.

"There's no way you should give immunity to these guys. They are part of the problem," Valenz said.

Valenz, a veteran employee of mortgage firms, said he complained to bosses about flawed reviews while working directly for Clayton and also for other companies that hired him through a temporary staffing firm on Clayton's referral. He said that after he clashed with supervisors on one such referral job at a bank in Puerto Rico, he was sent home and Clayton never again offered him work.

An attorney for Clayton said Valenz was let go because the Puerto Rico bank fired him for insubordination. Valenz now works as an out-of-state lender's representative to mortgage brokers in Southern California.

The reviewers said the less-thorough approach made their expertise irrelevant and led to pressure to work faster. Valenz and Lujan said they were told to check two or three files an hour when it took an hour or more to do one properly.

One Clayton project supervisor "told us if we spent more than 20 minutes on a file, we were spending 20 minutes too long," Lujan said.

Though quick checks called "data scrubs" could take 20 minutes per loan, Filipps said, complex reviews could take three hours, with the average review taking 80 minutes in 2006.

The biggest problems, the reviewers said, were appraisals that looked inflated and "liar's loans," so nicknamed because borrowers weren't required to prove they earned enough to make their payments.

"You can't tell me a Kmart or a Wal-Mart or a Target floor worker is making $5,000 a month, or a house cleaner is making $10,000," said former loan reviewer Irma Aninger of Palm Desert, a 40-year financial services industry veteran.

Aninger, who did work for Clayton and Bohan, said she tried repeatedly to have such loans marked as unacceptable but was overruled by supervisors, who were known as project leads. "The lead would say, 'You can't do that. You can't call these people liars,' " Aninger said.

Aninger said one such supervisor was Clayton's Ed Peek. He denied discouraging the rejection of "stated income" loans. "Many, many, many stated income loans were rejected," he said, but the loan buyers often bought the rejected mortgages anyway.

From his perch, Peek said, he could see the deterioration of overall standards.

"I had been looking at sub-prime mortgages since the beginning," he said. "When it started, you couldn't get a sub-prime loan for over 80%" of a property's value.

"But the guidelines loosen, and the investors would still buy," Peek said. "They loosen up some more, and investors still buy," until highly risky loans for 100% of a home's value were pushed through.

"Everyone knew this was a bubble that couldn't last," he said. "We all could see this coming."

News Link,0,6255840.story?page=2

My Mom Worked For Clayton For Years As One Of These Reviewers
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 April 01, 2008, 07:59:39 PM
Net Neutrality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   <----please look at this

For those of you who thought this was just absurd, read this. AOL bans prisonplanet.

Just a start, who knows, maybe in the future they will try to block political campaigns of independents like Ron Paul or Jess Ventura.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx April 01, 2008, 08:24:41 PM
Jess Ventura on larry king right now
: Mukasey Admits Government Knew Of Call About 9/11, Before 9/11
: [Ht]LOx April 02, 2008, 04:47:12 AM
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Tuesday, April 1, 2008

During a speech at the Commonwealth Club in San Francisco on Thursday, Attorney General Michael Mukasey tacitly admitted that the U.S. government intercepted a call about 9/11 - before 9/11.

Before the 2001 terrorist attacks, he said, "we knew that there had been a call from someplace that was known to be a safe house in Afghanistan and we knew that it came to the United States. We didn’t know precisely where it went," reports the San Francisco Chronicle.

Mukasey is then reported to have "grimaced, swallowed hard, and seemed to tear up as he reflected on the weaknesses in America’s anti-terrorism strategy prior to the 2001 attacks. "We got three thousand. . . . We’ve got three thousand people who went to work that day and didn’t come home to show for that," he said, struggling to maintain his composure."

Despite Mukasey using the example to justify warrantless wiretapping of Americans by claiming the government was unable to intercept the call, the fact is that no law would have prevented the government from listening in on the call. Existing FISA provisions would have covered the interception of the call.

In addition, it would be naive to consider that Echelon - the global spy network run by the NSA - did not intercept and catalogue the call. In 1999, the Australian government admitted that they were part of an NSA-led global intercept and surveillance grid in alliance with the US and Britain that could listen to "every international telephone call, fax, e-mail, or radio transmission," on the planet.

Furthermore, two days after 9/11, Germany’s daily Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung reported that the Echelon spy network had provided warnings of the terror attack 6 months in advance.

It is admitted that the CIA had tracked the alleged hijackers to an Al-Qaeda meeting in Malaysia in January 2000 and then let them back into the US. The U.S. government was fully aware of their movements without the need for a phone tap and allowed them safe passage around the globe.

As Newsweek reported, five of the named hijackers "received training at secure U.S. military installations in the 1990s".

Under these circumstances, the contention that the U.S. government intercepted such a call but was unable or unwilling to listen to it due to legal restrictions is completely inconceivable.

Mukasey’s admission is therefore further evidence that the U.S. government was responsible for - at the very bare minimum - "malfeasant complicity in the 9/11 attacks," as Keith Olbermann stated on his MSNBC show yesterday.

Olbermann thinks it likely Mukasey is simply embellishing in order to propagandize for warrantless wiretapping, but the fact that the hijackers were carefully tracked every step of the way before 9/11 by the U.S. government and indeed trained at their military installations, in addition to Echelon having recorded phone conversations about 9/11 six months before the attack, strongly suggests that Mukasey unintentionally told the truth - and unequivocally let slip U.S. government foreknowledge of 9/11.

News Links
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx April 08, 2008, 03:51:26 AM
We Are Change: Body Remains Found at Ground Zero Site Kept Secret - 1/19/08

: Jesse Ventura Debates the 9-11 Conspiracy Theory with Opie, Anthony, and Jim
: [Ht]LOx April 09, 2008, 11:06:49 AM | April 8, 2008

Former Minnesota Governor, professional wrestler, actor, and author Jesse Ventura visited the Opie and Anthony Radio Show to promote his new book, and the conversation eventually turned to Ventura’s thoughts on the September 11th tragedy. His views don’t sit well with the likes of Anthony, Jim Norton, and Bob Kelly, who is visiting. The conversation turns ugly fairly fast.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

: Chinese Paramilitary Cops Police Americans
: [Ht]LOx April 09, 2008, 09:50:04 PM
Steve Watson
Wednesday, April 9, 2008

A 30 man squad of crack trained Chinese paramilitary cops will today march through the streets of San Francisco, policing the one and only US stop on the Olympic torch relay, and tackling any American protesters who get in their way.

The news follows revelations that the London and Paris Olympic torch relay stops were policed by an elite "Flame Protection Unit", hand picked from special police units of the People’s Armed Police, China’s internal security force.

The so called "Flame attendants" are usually responsible for fighting unrest and maintaining internal stability in China. Tens of thousands of the "Wujing," as the People’s Armed Police are called in Chinese, recently took part in crackdowns against demonstrators in Tibet and neighboring regions.

The blue-suited goons were seen physically assaulting demonstrators and even Olympic officials and the torch bearers themselves.

Those present at the demonstrations have told reporters that the paramilitaries seemed to believe they have superiority over domestic police forces and were essentially running the show.

The British government has refused to comment on who authorized these hired thugs to have free reign over the streets of London, including Downing Street, despite questions from the opposition party.

These representatives of the Chinese Communist police state are today policing the streets of a portion of a major American city.

Fox News, amongst other media outlets has reported:

    The Olympic torch makes its only US appearance today with a ceremonial run through the streets of San Francisco. It will be protected by a squad of Chinese security officers known as "flame attendants." The guards wear bright blue tracksuits. They have succeeded in keeping human rights protesters from grabbing the torch at other appearances.


Despite the fierce backlash in England and Europe to the Chinese squad, and despite Australia announcing a total ban on their presence when the torch reaches Sydney, they walk through downtown San Francisco today as if they own the city.

The torch relay run started at McCovey Cove in San Francisco and will move along a six mile route to Justin Herman Plaza for a concluding ceremony.

Protesters and those sympathizing with the free Tibet movement are reportedly out in force as they were in London and Paris.

This all means that he same jackbooted Chinese SWAT teams we see in training for the Olympics here, are now policing protesters in the streets of America.

News Links
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD April 10, 2008, 06:39:09 AM
Dont ever quote those lame fucking assholes again,Opie and anthony are a friggin joke.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 April 10, 2008, 01:57:48 PM
Dont ever quote those lame fucking assholes again,Opie and anthony are a friggin joke.

I think it was more to showcase Jesse Venture and Not Opie and Potsie.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx April 10, 2008, 11:40:08 PM
yeah sarge it was jesse ROFL
Alex Doing The Elitist LOL
: Administration Set to Use New Spy Program in U.S.
: [Ht]LOx April 14, 2008, 01:07:07 AM
Spencer S. Hsu
Washington Post
April 13, 2008

The Bush administration said yesterday that it plans to start using the nation’s most advanced spy technology for domestic purposes soon, rebuffing challenges by House Democrats over the idea’s legal authority.

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said his department will activate his department’s new domestic satellite surveillance office in stages, starting as soon as possible with traditional scientific and homeland security activities — such as tracking hurricane damage, monitoring climate change and creating terrain maps.

Sophisticated overhead sensor data will be used for law enforcement once privacy and civil rights concerns are resolved, he said. The department has previously said the program will not intercept communications.

“There is no basis to suggest that this process is in any way insufficient to protect the privacy and civil liberties of Americans,” Chertoff wrote to Reps. Bennie G. Thompson (D-Miss.) and Jane Harman (D-Calif.), chairmen of the House Homeland Security Committee and its intelligence subcommittee, respectively, in letters released yesterday.

“I think we’ve fully addressed anybody’s concerns,” Chertoff added in remarks last week to bloggers. “I think the way is now clear to stand it up and go warm on it.”

His statements marked a fresh determination to operate the department’s new National Applications Office as part of its counterterrorism efforts. The administration in May 2007 gave DHS authority to coordinate requests for satellite imagery, radar, electronic-signal information, chemical detection and other monitoring capabilities that have been used for decades within U.S. borders for mapping and disaster response.

But Congress delayed launch of the new office last October. Critics cited its potential to expand the role of military assets in domestic law enforcement, to turn new or as-yet-undeveloped technologies against Americans without adequate public debate, and to divert the existing civilian and scientific focus of some satellite work to security uses.

Grid Still Loading...........

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The Government Is Trying to Wrap Its Mind Around Yours

Nita Farahany
The Washington Post
April 13, 208

Imagine a world of streets lined with video cameras that alert authorities to any suspicious activity. A world where police officers can read the minds of potential criminals and arrest them before they commit any crimes. A world in which a suspect who lies under questioning gets nabbed immediately because his brain has given him away.

Though that may sound a lot like the plot of the 2002 movie “Minority Report,” starring Tom Cruise and based on a Philip K. Dick novel, I’m not talking about science fiction here; it turns out we’re not so far away from that world. But does it sound like a very safe place, or a very scary one?

It’s a question I think we should be asking as the federal government invests millions of dollars in emerging technology aimed at detecting and decoding brain activity. And though government funding focuses on military uses for these new gizmos, they can and do end up in the hands of civilian law enforcement and in commercial applications. As spending continues and neurotechnology advances, that imagined world is no longer the stuff of science fiction or futuristic movies, and we postpone at our peril confronting the ethical and legal dilemmas it poses for a society that values not just personal safety but civil liberty as well.


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: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx April 16, 2008, 04:25:09 AM
South Texas We Are CHANGE meets Fmr. NSA Head Adm. Bobby R. Inman

9/11 Blogger | April 11, 2008

On Monday, April 1, 2008 Admiral Bobby R. Inman spoke at the University of Texas-Pan American on issues related to cyber security.

During and after the Q&A session, South Texas We Are CHANGE members Eloy Gonzalez II and Leo Krayola confronted Admiral Inman on a a number of pressing and current political issues such as the congressional bill H.R. 1955 as its relation to terrorism, 9/11 truth activism, and freedom of speech.

Other important topics, such as the Federal Reserve, the admiral declined to discuss.

Note: I think I was in error by stating outright that Admiral Inman supports HR 1955. Just because he is a member of the Commission on Cyber Security does not make this so. Also, the exchange between him and me about the danger HR 1955 poses to civil liberties of United States citizens was at times a bit muddled and inconsistent.

On the upside however, Admiral Inman did say TWICE that he does NOT believe 9/11 truth activists are terrorists. This may eventually prove useful if and when HR 1955 and other similar and so-called "anti-terror" legislation goes into full effect.


Bobby R. Inman (born April 4, 1931 in Rhonesboro, Texas) is a retired U.S. admiral who held several influential positions in the U.S. Intelligence community.

He served as Director of Naval Intelligence from September 1974 to July 1976, then moved to the Defense Intelligence Agency where he served as Vice Director until 1977. He next became the Director of the National Security Agency. Inman held this post until 1981. His last major position was as the Deputy Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, a post he held from February 12, 1981 to June 10, 1982.

Inman was announced as President Bill Clinton’s choice to succeed Les Aspin as Secretary of Defense on December 16, 1993, initially receiving broad bipartisan support. He initially accepted the post, but withdrew his nomination during an unusual press conference on which shocked members of both major political parties.

Since 2001, Inman has been the LBJ Centennial Chair in National Policy at The University of Texas at Austin Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs, and in 2005 was the school’s interim dean [2]. Inman graduated from Texas with a bachelor’s in history in 1950.

Inman has also served on the Board of Directors of the Council on Foreign Relations, Dell Computer, and SBC Corporation (now AT&T). [3]. In 2006, Inman criticized the Bush administration’s use of warrantless domestic wiretaps, making him one of the highest-ranking former intelligence officials to criticize the program in public.

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx April 16, 2008, 02:55:14 PM

Netanyahu says 9/11 terror attacks good for Israel

April 16, 2008

The Israeli newspaper Ma’ariv on Wednesday reported that Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu told an audience at Bar Ilan university that the September 11, 2001 terror attacks had been beneficial for Israel.
“We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq,” Ma’ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events “swung American public opinion in our favor.”

Netanyahu reportedly made the comments during a conference at Bar-Ilan University on the division of Jerusalem as part of a peace deal with the Palestinians.

Meanwhile, Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad cast doubt over the veracity of the September 11 attacks Thursday, calling it a pretext to invade Afghanistan and Iraq.

“Four or five years ago, a suspicious event occurred in New York. A building collapsed and they said that 3,000 people had been killed but never published their names,” Ahmadinejad told Iranians in the holy city of Qom.

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: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Cerberus April 17, 2008, 05:59:51 PM
Proof 9/11 was a conspiracy (
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx April 22, 2008, 01:19:57 AM
The $3 Trillion Shopping Spree

April 21, 2008          <----see what you can buy
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx April 23, 2008, 12:52:31 AM
  New Al-Qaeda Video Aids Globalist Agenda

Lee Rogers
Rogue Government
April 22, 2008

There is now little question that the Al-Qaeda terror network is nothing more than a sophisticated psychological warfare operation directed at the American people to justify the phony terror war and various globalist agendas. Today, the Associated Press reported that Al-Qaeda’s so called number two Ayman Al-Zawahri accused Iran of discrediting the Sunni run Al-Qaeda terror network by spreading the conspiracy theory that Israel was behind the 9/11 attacks in a new video tape release. This video is coming out right after high profile figures like Jesse Ventura have come out questioning the official 9/11 story and when the Bush administration is increasing their efforts to justify an invasion of Iran. Al-Zawahri even gave the global warming fraud credibility which in effect hypes the agenda for a planetary carbon tax just as the corporate controlled media pushes all sorts of green propaganda down our throats. Al-Zawahri is effectively helping the Bush administration and the globalists by providing cover for the official 9/11 story, blaming Iran for spreading conspiracy theories about Israel being behind the attacks and even giving the global warming fraud credibility. The global warming issue aside, there is no question that this video tape is blatant propaganda designed to demonize the 9/11 truth movement by linking the movement to the so called evil Iranians and to anti-Semitism by having Al-Zawahri focusing in on theories surrounding direct Israeli involvement. Each time the globalists need Al-Qaeda to do something to push forward their agenda, Al-Qaeda seems to do exactly what they need. Countless audio and video tapes of Al-Zawahri, Osama Bin Laden and other so called Al-Qaeda stooges have been proven fakes and the production of these videos have been linked directly back to CIA front groups like IntelCenter and SITE Institute.

This latest video tape of Al-Zawahri comes after IntelCenter said that Al-Qaeda’s media arm would release a video of Al-Zawahri answering various Internet questions submitted to him by the public. First off, the notion that an evil terrorist leader would answer questions submitted via the Internet is ridiculous on its face. Secondly, IntelCenter is silent on which Al-Qaeda linked web site accepted these questions. Perhaps this is because IntelCenter was actually caught by researcher Neal Krawetz inserting their logo in previous Al-Qaeda videos at the same time the so called Al-Qaeda media logo was inserted in the videos. Krawetz mysteriously backtracked from his original claims despite the fact that Wired Magazine had him personally review his claims to ensure they were accurate. If his original research is correct and common sense indicates that it is, it leaves little doubt that IntelCenter is the one releasing the Al-Qaeda videos. The fact that he backtracked after reviewing his original claims for accuracy is extremely odd and suspicious. IntelCenter has denied that they doctor videos but when they refuse to provide the original source of Al-Qaeda audio and video tapes it provides further credence that they themselves are the source of this propaganda.

The following is taken from the Associated Press report on the new Al-Zawahri tape in which he answers a question about possible involvement in the 9/11 attacks by Israel.

One of the questioners asked about the theory that has circulated in the Middle East and elsewhere that Israel was behind the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

Al-Zawahri accused Hezbollah’s Al-Manar television of starting the rumor.

"The purpose of this lie is clear — (to suggest) that there are no heroes among the Sunnis who can hurt America as no else did in history. Iranian media snapped up this lie and repeated it," he said.

The vast majority of people in the 9/11 truth movement do not believe that Israel was directly behind the attacks. While it is very likely that the Mossad had a role to play in the attacks, it is clear that the focus on Israel is designed to open the door for the media to associate the 9/11 truth movement with anti-Semitism. Not only that, but the Associated Press headline focuses in on how this theory originated from Iran. Al-Zawahri is effectively linking the 9/11 truth movement as anti-Semites working with Iran. Even more ridiculous is that out of the 2,000 questions he received, Al-Zawahri would decide to answer this one specific question. What luck for the globalists that this evil terrorist leader would choose to answer this particular question out of the 2,000 submitted that goes right along with their agenda to demonize the 9/11 truth movement.

Of course this new Al-Qaeda video tape comes out right after Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad made bizarre comments on the 9/11 attacks in which he incorrectly identified when the attacks took place.

"Four or five years ago a suspect event took place in New York," President Ahmadinejad said.

Many believe that Ahamdinejad might actually be working for the globalists considering the fact that he has called for a global government. Regardless of what you believe about Ahmadinejad, there is no question that his recent comments on 9/11 has opened the door for this new Al-Qaeda video tape which will have the desired propaganda effect for the globalists.

What is really insane about this is that media talking heads have previously tried to link the 9/11 truth movement as a group of people aiding Al-Qaeda and now Al-Qaeda comes out with a video that tries to demonize the 9/11 truth movement. Now you’ll probably see the corporate controlled media say how the 9/11 truth movement is helping Iran despite the fact that many of the same people have said that the 9/11 truth movement is helping Al-Qaeda. It just proves that everything these people have said about the 9/11 truth movement aiding Al-Qaeda is an absolute lie.

Looking at the origins of Al-Qaeda it is clear that it is nothing more than a front group for the CIA and western intelligence agencies. Al-Qaeda was created in the late 1970s during the Carter administration as a list of fighters that could be used to counter the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. After Al-Qaeda fulfilled its purpose during the Cold War, it was transformed into a phony nemesis that would pull off terrorist attacks at politically convenient times for Bill Clinton. When Clinton was offered Osama Bin Laden he refused responding instead by bombing a Sudanese factory. If Bin Laden was an enemy, why did Clinton not want him captured? Considering Bin Laden was an asset it makes perfect sense as to why Clinton had no desire to capture him as he was an asset not an enemy. Al-Qaeda still serves in this same capacity to this day and all of this Al-Qaeda propaganda is released to serve the aims and purposes of the people in charge of the military industrial complex.

There are many other cases of Al-Qaeda propaganda which has served to help the Bush administration’s agenda following the 9/11 attacks. Here are just a few of them.

Al-Qaeda released a video tape of Al-Zawahri right before Bush’s State of the Union address in 2007. Not only that, but another Al-Qaeda video tape featuring Al-Zawahri was also released before Bush’s State of the Union address in 2006. These tapes conveniently gave the Bush administration more ammunition to justify a continued occupation of Iraq.

Prior to the 2004 elections, a video tape of Bin Laden and a video tape of so called American Al-Qaeda Adam Gadahn were conveniently released just weeks before the election. The tapes were used by the media to scare the American people into supporting Bush and to justify his policies in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Al-Qaeda videos depicting this so called American Al-Qaeda figure known as Adam Gadahn has been widely discredited in the alternative media. Adam Gadahn’s real name is Adam Pearlman who is the grandson of Carl Pearlman who is a former board member of the pro-Israeli lobbying group the Anti-Defamation League or ADL. What are the odds that the grandson of a former ADL head would be showing up in videos as an American Al-Qaeda convert? It is entirely comical.

The Bin Laden video that the Bush administration and the media claim is smoking gun proof that he was responsible for the 9/11 attacks has been widely discredited. The video which was supposedly found in the city of Jalalabad months after the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan shows what appears to be actor playing the role of Bin Laden. Even if you believe that the video is really Bin Laden, what are the odds that U.S. forces would some how stumble across a video of Bin Laden admitting responsibility for the 9/11 attacks? It is especially strange considering that the Bush administration was clamoring for smoking gun proof of Bin Laden’s involvement when they had none. How lucky for them that they found this video. It simply doesn’t add up and even the FBI doesn’t list the 9/11 attacks as being one of the things that Bin Laden is wanted for.

Even Bin Laden’s son Omar Bin Laden has said on Belgium television that the tapes of his father look strange almost as if they created a copy of him.

There is no question considering all of this evidence that Al-Qaeda is a front group for the CIA and associated western intelligence agencies. Al-Qaeda isn’t even a real organization. It is nothing more than a psychological warfare operation against the American people to make the average American citizen believe that the war on terror is real. It also serves to push forward various agendas like the association of the 9/11 truth movement with anti-Semitism and Iran. Now that the media is saying that Iran not Al-Qaeda is the biggest threat in Iraq, it makes perfect sense that the globalists would choose to release a phony Al-Qaeda tape that fits in with their propaganda.

Even more ridiculous is how Al-Zawahri gives the global warming fraud credibility right around the time that we see a massive push of green propaganda in the corporate controlled media. Below is a blurb from the Associated Press report in which Al-Zawahri talks about how the issue of global warming shows how the west is evil.

Al-Zawahri spoke on a wide range of issues, even global warming, which he said reflected "how criminal, brutal and greedy the Western Crusader world is, with America at the top."

He predicted that global warming would "make the world more sympathetic to and understanding of the Muslims’ jihad against the aggressor America."

So Al-Zawahri is promoting the global warming fraud saying that we are evil because we emit lots of carbon dioxide. He is essentially promoting the agenda of the same people who the media claims he is fighting. Can this get anymore stupid?

The bottom line is that the war on terror and the official 9/11 story is a fraud. If either of these things weren’t true than why would the globalists be releasing obviously fake and staged Al-Qaeda videos that help promote their agendas of demonizing the 9/11 truth movement and promoting the global warming hoax? This new Al-Qaeda video is proof that their propaganda operations have been discredited and that they are starting to get desperate.

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You Should See Through The Fog Now
: Gov. Arnold Questioned About His Nazi Connections
: [Ht]LOx April 24, 2008, 03:49:00 AM

It wasn’t a question Arnold Schwarzenegger wanted to answer. “Arnold, can I get your comment on Kurt Waldheim, your friend?” Schwarzenegger immediately turned away.

After Luke Rudowski of We Are Change attempted to question Arnold about his relationship with former Nazi and Secretary-General of the United Nations, Kurt Waldheim, Schwarzenegger’s press secretary, Aaron McLear, stepped in and confessed complete — if completely unbelievable — ignorance of Waldheim.

Obviously, before taking the job, Mr. McLear did not do his homework.

So chummy was Arnie with the former Nazi, he invited him to his wedding to blue blood Maria Shriver, niece of the John F. Kennedy. Waldheim didn’t attend, but he did send a gift, reported to be a statue of Arnold, in lederhosen, bearing off Maria, who wore a dirndl. “My friends don’t want me to mention Kurt’s name, because of all the recent Nazi stuff and the U.N. controversy, but I love him and Maria does too, and so thank you, Kurt,” Arnie gushed.

As it turns out, Kurt Waldheim was a Nazi intelligence officer in Germany’s Army Group E when it committed mass murder in the Kozara region of western Bosnia. In fact, Waldheim’s name appears on the Wehrmacht’s “honor list” of those responsible for the atrocity. At the end of the war, Waldheim was wanted by the War Crimes Commission of the United Nations. Ironically or not, Waldheim would later become the head of the globalist organization. In Austria, plenty of people were willing for forgive Waldheim for his crimes, as he had no problem becoming president. At the same time, the U.S. Justice Department put Waldheim on its watch list denying entry to “any foreign national who assisted or otherwise participated in activities amounting to persecution during World War II.”

It makes sense Arnie would express an effusive affinity for Kurt Waldheim, as Schwarzenegger’s vater was a Nazi muckamuck. Gustav Schwarzenegger voluntarily joined Hitler’s infamous Strumabteilung (SA), “brown shirt” stormtroopers in 1939. So fond of Hitler was Gustav he even marched around with the Führer’s trademark mustache. The Vienna daily Der Standard noted that “Gustav, a high-ranking Nazi, brought up the bespectacled, rather frail boy with an iron fist and quite a few slaps in the face.”

In 2003, the New York Times reported that film producer George Butler, who produced the documentary “Pumping Iron,” asked Schwarzenegger who he admired and the bodybuilder replied: “I admired Hitler, for instance, because he came from being a little man with almost no formal education up to power. And I admire him for being such a good public speaker.” Butler considered Arnie a “flagrant, outspoken admirer of Hitler” who played “Nazi marching songs from long-playing records in his collection at home” and “frequently clicked his heels and pretended to be an S.S. officer.”

In 1976, Arnie told Rolling Stone: “I feel you only can have a few leaders… and then the rest is followers. I feel that I am the born leader and that I’ve always impressed with being the leader. I hate to be the follower. I had this when I was a little boy,” back when his Gestapo father boxed his ears. “I didn’t think about money. I thought about the fame, about just being the greatest. I was dreaming about being some dictator of a country or some savior like Jesus.”

In other words, for our globalist rulers, Arnie is the ideal candidate — authoritarian, suffering from a messianic complex, and completely deluded.

And it makes perfect sense Schwarzenegger would flaunt a Nazi death’s head belt buckle on the cover of Time Magazine, as he is a recalcitrant fascist, indeed quite proud of his admiration for Hitler and the Nazis, responsible for slaughtering tens of millions of people. Showing off the belt buckle is a sly way to show his real colors without going completely over the top.

No wonder he turned his back on Luke Rudowski when asked about Kurt Waldheim. Now that Schwarzenegger’s dream of power and becoming a dictator — same as that other guy with a family steeped in Nazism, the one currently in the White House — draws closer, he has to studiously avoid his free wheeling past and also embarrassing questions asked by the untermenschen.

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: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 April 24, 2008, 04:32:56 PM
The Credit Crunch gets worse on houses. Recently I moved and currently own two houses one of them vacant. Most of my net worth is tied up in the other house so I decided to get some cash out in order to refi the current house below that magic 80% PMI mark.

My other house appraised for much lower than I thought, but that wasn't a shock on a refiance. The shock was some info I found out. FannieMae curently has changed the amount they will allow consumers to take out in equity without having to pay points. It lowered to 70% recently. During the course of my loan processing, it lowered to 60%. They are really discouraging equity out loans and second mortgages.

Also, my realtor just told that the state of WI, possibly everywhere, is now requiring 5% down and not allowing 100% loans. I remember when we bought our last house a person could get a 110% loan.

All the house lending shit is changing and fast. I hope it doesn't get like when my parents bought their first home; 12% interest and 20% down.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx May 01, 2008, 08:10:31 AM
Eugenics and Environmentalism: From quality control to quantity control

Daniel Taylor
Old-Thinker News
April 30, 2008

Has eugenics faded away with time, or has the pseudo science morphed and cloaked itself under new auspices? Were some of the original founders of population control efforts themselves eugenicists? How and when did eugenicists shift from Galton era ideals to Malthusian population control? The history of eugenics is incredibly detailed and expansive, but there are certain issues that are not given as much attention as others. This article attempts to answer these questions and provide a wider perspective on these important issues.

From quality control to quantity control

While there are examples of eugenics still in practice in its pre WWII form, eugenicists were forced to scale back rhetoric and reframe their ideas in the post WWII world. Hitler’s actions embarrassed eugenicists in America enough for them to at least publicly change their ideas.

China currently has Galton-era eugenics laws on the books which only allow pre-approved couples to marry and have children. The Law of the People’s Republic of China on Maternal and Infant Health Care states that if the approved couples children are deemed to be inferior they are to be terminated. [1]

The United States was the first to enact eugenic sterilization laws in the state of Indiana in 1907. By the mid 1930’s, 34 states had passed mandatory sterilization laws. Many of the laws remained active as late as 1974. Eugenics officially ended, yet remained.

Dr. David C. Reardon has documented the shift to population control among eugenicists in chapter five of his work in progress, The Eugenics Connection: Shapers of Humanity. He writes regarding the earlier eugenic practices in the United States,

    "During the early 1930’s, eugenics reached the height of its popularity in pre-World war II America. It was during this period, when their political power was greatest, that eugenicists and Neo-Malthusians became increasingly radical in their demands to eliminate the ‘unfit,’ whom they called a "race of chronic paupers, a race parasitic upon the community." The eugenic weapons to be used in this ‘war between races’ were increasingly coercive and destructive. In 1932, at the Third International congress of Eugenics held in New York City, proposals were made to prevent the ‘further dilution of the American gene pool’ by those who possessed ‘inferior genes’ through segregation, sterilization, birth control, abortion and even infanticide." [2]

Reardon then documents the discrediting of eugenics and the toning down of rhetoric coming from its supporters. One of the factors cited by Reardon which dampened enthusiasm was the targeting of upper classes for sterilization due to their financial dethroning as a result of the great depression. Reardon writes,

    "Suddenly, many of those in the upper and middle-classes, who had previously judged hereditary ‘unfitness’ on the basis of economic poverty, now found themselves impoverished. These ‘new poor’ feared that the selection of the ‘unfit’ might be confused. Finding themselves labeled ‘the aristocracy of the unfit’ by eugenicists, they feared that they might be the ones to suffer from compulsory sterilization, not just the "truly unfit." [3]

Frederick Henry Osborn (1889—1981)

James Lovelock, a prominent environmental activist, recently made headlines with his comments on what he calls imminent environmental calamity. Interestingly, Lovelock stated that the world faces an environmental crisis largely brought on by over-population in which he would like to see "the best of our species" survive. [4]

This brings us to the post WWII era of eugenics. Eugenicists who still held on to the discredited principles of eugenics now attached these ideas to environmentalism and population control in an attempt to carry on eugenics in a more veiled form. Malthusian population control was now emphasized.

The Rockefellers and the Osborns

An important point to be made when covering these issues is that the very same families who had previously funded and popularized eugenics in America prior to World War II shifted their resources into funding and promoting population reduction and control in the post WWII era.

Several prominent families are responsible for funding and promoting eugenics in America, namely the Rockefeller, Carnegie, Harriman, and Osborn families. Two families, the Rockefellers and the Osborns, are particularly significant. John D. Rockefeller Sr. contributed a large amount of money to build the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory in the early 1900’s, which housed the Eugenics Records Office from 1910-1944. Rockefeller influence also spread overseas to Germany, where the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Psychiatry, and the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Eugenics, Anthropology and Human Heredity resided. Much of the money used to run these facilities came from Rockefeller. [5] These institutes became centers for Nazi eugenics programs during the reign of Adolf Hitler.

The influence of the Rockefeller family continued in 1945 when John D. Rockefeller Jr. donated the land upon which the United Nations stands in New York City. The U.N. plays an important roll in population control, a subject which will be covered shortly. Watch the video below to see former New York Mayor Rudolf Giuliani introduce a short documentary regarding Rockefeller’s influence in the founding of the U.N.

In 1952, John D. Rockefeller the 3rd, the oldest son of Rockefeller Jr., founded the Population Council. The organizations stated goal is to seek "…better understanding of problems relating to population." [6] The first president of the Council was Frederick Henry Osborn, who was appointed by John D. Rockefeller himself. Osborn was a prominent eugenicist who helped found the American Eugenics Society, now called The Society for the Study of Social Biology. Osborn headed the AES from 1946-1952, when he began to place greater emphasis on population control, signaling the shift of post WWII eugenicists. [7] Osborn wrote in his 1968 book The Future of Human Heredity that "Eugenic goals are most likely to be attained under another name than eugenics."

Frederick Henry Osborn’s nephew, Henry Fairfield Osborn, carried on the banner of population control. His 1948 book Our Plundered Planet covers many of the issues that environmentalists are concerned with today. Osborn states in the book that over-population will destroy the planet and that drastic measures must be taken to curtail population growth. He takes a moment to reflect on the savage nature of his outlined proposal, but states that it will have to be done. He writes,

    "Of course, as we all know, these are momentous days and many things can happen to check population growth, even including the devastating use of atomic bombs in a new war. It is difficult to adjust one’s mind to the possibility that the present negotiations between nations could fail to prevent such a savage denial of the right to human existence, and that the problem of the pressure of increasing populations - perhaps the greatest problem facing humanity today - cannot be solved in a way that is consistent with humanity." [8]

Steven C. Rockefeller, a fourth generation member of the family, has remained dedicated to the family’s history of philanthropy and promotion of population control. He played a central role in the writing of the United Nations Earth Charter, and chaired the Earth Charter International Drafting Committee from 1997 to 2000. He is currently a member of the Earth Charter Commission. [9] Echoing past writings of Osborn and others, he stated in an interview at Tilburg University in the Netherlands that,

    "Third, the Earth Charter recognizes that the dramatic rise in human population is putting great pressure on the resilience of ecological systems and has overburdened social and economic systems." [10]

The Earth Charter itself says, "An unprecedented rise in human population has overburdened ecological and social systems. The foundations of global security are threatened. These trends are perilous but not inevitable."

Others involved in the post WWII shift

Before we look at recent examples of population reduction being funded and carried out, there are other prominent individuals who played an important role in this shift from eugenics to population control.

Frank Notestein was one of the most prominent individuals who made the study of population an institutional practice. His bio summarizes his numerous memberships, which include the American Eugenics Society.

    "He was a member of the American Eugenics Society, the American Philosophical Society, the Council on Foreign Relations, the International Statistical Institute, the International Union for the Scientific Study of Population, the Population Association of America, and the Century Association." [11]

Notestein also served as president of John D. Rockefeller’s Population Council after Frederick Osborn stepped down. He was also the first director of the United Nations Population Division from 1946-1948. In a 1969 paper written by Notestein titled The Problem of Population Control, he outlines a strategy to depopulate target populations. Notestein admits that economic modernization would "…bring the birthrate down automatically." However, he goes on to state that more drastic measures must be taken because in his opinion this method would not be fast enough. He writes,

    "Given existing preferences in family size, governments must go beyond voluntary family planning. To achieve zero rate of population growth governments will have to do more than cajole; they will have to coerce."

    "…to impose more drastic changes on a large scale implies many risks, not least to the regime that undertakes them. The price for this type of population control may well be the institution of a totalitarian regime." [12]

Another individual, Guy Irving Burch, who wrote for Margaret Sanger’s Birth Control Review publication, also played a key role. Burch’s 1947 book Human Breeding and Survival combines the ideas of both eugenics and population control. He writes,

    "It appears what the United Nations needs to do is to recommend to all nations that adoption of laws which will… actually lead to the sterilization of all persons who are inadequate, either biologically or socially, and encourage the voluntary sterilization of normal persons who have had their share of children."

Burch described plans for attaining "peace goals" and national security objectives through population control. Similar arguments and proposals are made in Henry Kissinger’s later 1974 National Security Study Memorandum 200, which was influenced by the 1944 Royal Commission on Population. Burch states that, "… if we are willing to keep the focus on undesirable parentage… then sterilization can play a rather large part in the attainment of the peace goals…"

Richard C. Reardon writes again in his Eugenics Connection work in progress regarding Burch, pointing out the shift from Galton era eugenics to Malthusian population control,

    "The ideas of Galton were becoming unpopular, so the ideas of Malthus needed to be stressed. If the public could be made to believe in the need for quantity control, they would again accept its logical extension - quality control. So in 1940, while serving as director of his Population Reference Bureau and the editor of its Population Bulletin, Burch helped found another "population" front for eugenicists - the Population Association of America." [13]

Population reduction operations today

In 1989 research was conducted by the National Institute of Immunology in New Delhi India on the use of ‘carriers’ such as Tetanus Toxoid and Diphtheria to bypass the immune system and deliver the female hormone called human chorionic gonadotrophin (hCG). The research paper was carried in the Oxford University Press in 1990 and was titled "Bypass by an alternate ‘carrier’ of acquired unresponsiveness to hCG upon repeated immunization with tetanus-conjugated vaccine." [1]

While hCG is required to maintain pregnancy, the injection of hCG bound to Tetanus Toxoid triggers an auto-immune response, thus causing sterilization. The NII research cited above used four women as test subjects - who had been surgically sterilized prior to the experiment - and found that multiple doses of the Tetanus Toxoid hCG carrier vaccine was required in order to achieve the desired results. The research also found that if an alternate carrier such as Diphtheria was used as a booster in combination with Tetanus the sterilization vaccine would be more effective.

The Rockefeller Foundation and the Population Council are listed in the document as giving grants for the research.

Henry Kissinger’s 1974 National Security Memorandum 200 document cites "Injectable contraceptives for women" as a possible method of population reduction and control. Depopulation, as stated in the document, should be pursued because it would be in the "…economic interests of the United States."

    "Wherever a lessening of population pressures… can increase the prospects for such stability, population policy becomes relevant to resource supplies and to the economic interests of the United States."

On November 4, 1996 the publication Vaccine Weekly carried an article titled "Study Suggests Women Were Injected with Contaminated Tetanus Vaccine." The article details an investigation that was carried out by the Philippine Medical Association into the discovery of hCG in tetanus vaccines. While the article brands the vaccine as being "contaminated", the Rockefeller funded research cited above indicates that this is not a case of contamination. As reported,

    "Have women in the Philippines, and possibly elsewhere, surreptitiously been used as guinea pigs in an international anti-fertility campaign?

    A medical study in the Philippines suggested that may well be the case. A study conducted by the Philippine Medical Association on behalf of the Philippine Department of Health revealed that almost 20 percent of the tetanus vaccine sampled positive for the hormone human chorionic gonadotrophin (hCG), according to Human Life International.

    Vaccines containing the hormone immunize women not only against tetanus but also against pregnancy by inducing the body’s immune system to attack the hormone needed to bring an unborn child to term." [2]

Thailand is ripe with stories of miscarriages and sterilization. According to the local population of the Akha, pregnant women are forced to receive a tetanus vaccine in order to get ID cards for their children. The vaccine often results with violent miscarriages. In the video below, Matthew McDaniel, a human rights activist who has been working with the Akha people of Thailand,  speaks with two Akha women about the forced Tetanus vaccine and the resulting miscarriages.

The current world-wide focus on global warming takes us to another angle of present day population control operations. China has boasted that their family planning policies have cut their carbon dioxide emissions by 1.3 billion tons, thus cutting their impact on supposed man-made global warming. [3]

China’s often brutal population control policies have been supported by the Rockefeller enterprise. The Washington Post reported on October 12, 2000 that the Rockefeller Foundation had donated two million dollars to upgrade a Chinese drug factory that produces the abortion drug RU-486. The Washington Post reports,

    "RU-486 has been a key ingredient in China’s population control strategy for years. Of the estimated 10 million abortions performed annually in China, about half are carried out with RU-486, said Gao Ersheng, director of the Shanghai Institute of Planned Parenthood Research." [4]

Ted Turner recently made headlines when he stated that "voluntary" one child policies should be adopted worldwide to slow population growth. "…we`ve got to stabilize population. On a voluntary basis, everybody in the world has got to pledge to themselves that one or two children is it," stated Turner. [5]

In Australia proposals have been made to tax parents who have more than one child. As CNS news reported,

    "Having babies is bad for the planet, and parents of more than two children should be charged a birth levy and annual tax to offset the "greenhouse gases" their child will be responsible for over his or her lifetime.

    At the same time, those who use and prescribe contraceptives and sterilization procedures should earn tax relief for such greenhouse friendly services" that help to keep the population size down." [6]

In a 1994 presentation before the Business Council for the United Nations, David Rockefeller, son of John D. Rockefeller Jr., took time to talk about over-population as a threat to the environment. Rockefeller also said that "…unrestrained economic growth poses further threats to our environment."

Watch Rockefeller’s presentation:

What you have read here is a collection of a few of the major points in an expansive history. Population control today - and the corresponding environmental movements - grew out of the post WWII shift from eugenics to Malthusian programs. The line connecting eugenicists to population control is unmistakable. Population reduction is being used by the elite as a weapon of war against competition, as an assurance of continued domination.

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx May 01, 2008, 08:13:27 AM
More From The Post Up Top


From quality control to quantity control

[1] Law of the People’s Republic of China on Maternal and Infant Health Care.

[2] Reardon, David C. The Eugenics Connection: Shapers of Humanity. Available in PDF

[3] Ibid.

[4] "We’re all doomed! 40 years from global catastrophe - and there’s NOTHING we can do about it, says climate change expert" Daily Mail. By Sarah Sands. March 22, 2008. Available Here

[5] "The horrifying roots of Nazi Eugenics" History News Network. By Edwin Black. Nov. 24, 2003. Available Here -

[6] Population Council FAQ.

[7] Wikipedia. American Eugenics Society.

[8] Osborn, Fairfield. Our Plundered Planet. Little Brown and Company, Boston; 1st edition, 1948. p. 41.

[9] Rockefeller Brothers Fund. Steven C. Rockefeller.

[10] Steven Rockefeller: The Earth Charter. Interview by Patricia Morales.

[11] Princeton University Library. Frank W. Notestein.

[12] Ed. Hauser, Philip Morris. The Population Dilemma. Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, N.J. 1969. pages 145 - 166

[13] Ibid. 2.

Population reduction operations today

[1] A copy of this document can be obtained at the Oxford Journal website here:

[2] "Study Suggests Women Were Injected with Contaminated Tetanus Vaccine" Vaccine Weekly. Nov. 4, 1996.

[3] "’One-child’ policy aids climate change battle: China" AFP. March 11, 2008. Available Here

[4] "Chinese To Make RU-486 For U.S." Washington Post. By Philip P. Pan. October 11, 2000. Available Here

[5] "Ted Turner Pushes One-Child Policy In PBS Interview". NewsBusters. By Tim Graham. April 5, 2008. Available Here

6] "’Tax Parents for Children’s Carbon Emissions’". By Patrick Goodenough. December 10, 2007. Available Here -

News Link
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx May 02, 2008, 06:45:58 AM
  Did the US Supreme Court just elect John McCain?

Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman
May 1, 2008

The US Supreme Court has just dealt a serious blow to voters’ rights that could help put John McCain in the White House by eliminating tens of thousands of voters who generally vote Democratic.

By 6-3 the Court has upheld an Indiana law that requires citizens to present a photo identification card in order to vote. Florida, Michigan, Louisiana, Georgia, Hawaii and South Dakota have similar laws. Though it’s unlikely, as many as two dozen other states could add them by election day. Other states, like Ohio, have less stringent ID requirements than Indiana’s, but still have certain restrictions that are strongly opposed by voter rights advocates.

The decision turns back two centuries of jurisprudence that has accepted a registered voter’s signature as sufficient identification for casting a ballot. By matching that signature against one given at registration, and with harsh penalties for ballot stuffing, the Justices confirmed in their lead opinion that there is “no evidence” for the kind of widespread voter fraud Republican partisans have used to justify the demand for photo ID.

Voting rights activists have long argued that since photo ID can cost money, or may demand expensive trips to government agencies, the requirement constitutes a “poll tax.” Taxes on the right to vote were used for a century to prevent blacks and others from voting in the south and elsewhere. They were specifically banned by the 24th Amendment to the Constitution, ratified in 1964.

But the Court’s lead opinion, written by Justice Stevens, normally a liberal, said that though rare, the “risk of voter fraud” was nonetheless “real” and that there was “no question about the legitimacy or importance of the state’s interest in counting only the votes of eligible voters.” The burden of obtaining a voter ID, said the court, was not so difficult as to be deemed unConstitutional. Ohio election protection Attorney Cliff Arnebeck believes Stevens joined the decision to divide the Court’s conservative majority, and to leave the door open for further litigation.

But there is no indication the corporate media or Democratic Party will be pursuing significant action on this issue any time soon. Though the Kerry Campaign solicited millions of dollars to “protect the vote” in 2004, it has not supported independent research into that election’s irregularities. In the King-Lincoln Civil Rights lawsuit, in which we are attorney and plaintiff, 56 of Ohio’s 88 counties destroyed ballot materials, in direct violation of federal law. There has been no official legal follow-up on this case, no major media investigation, and no support from the Democratic Party either to investigate what happened in Ohio 2004, or to make sure it doesn’t happen again in 2008. The issue has yet to be seriously raised by the major Democratic candidates despite the fact that it could render their campaigns moot.

This latest Supreme Court decision is yet another serious blow to voting rights advocates—and probably to the Democratic nominees for President and other offices. It will clearly make it far more difficult for poor, minority, elderly and young citizens to vote. Tens of thousands of normally Democratic voters in key states—especially Florida, Michigan, Georgia and Louisiana—will simply be prevented from getting a ballot.

The Brennan Center for Justice at New York University’s School of Law in its “Friend of the Court” brief noted that between 10% and 13% of eligible voters lack the identification now required in Indiana. People without an official photo ID tend to be disproportionately minorities and poor, ushering a new Jim Crow era based on race and class apartheid. One Indiana study, according to Inter Press Service reporter Jim Lobe, found that 13.3% of registered Indiana voters lacked the now-required ID, but the numbers were significantly higher for black voters at 18% and young voters age 18-34 at more than 20%.

Kathryn Kolbert, President of People for the American Way, put the number at “millions of eligible voters who don’t have the ID these laws require.”

Photo ID has long been a lynchpin of a concerted GOP strategy to eliminate Democratic voters. In the wake of the theft of the 2004 election in Ohio, Republican activists produced heavily publicized allegations of massive voter fraud, virtually all of which proved to be false.

Nonetheless, the drumbeat for restrictive ID requirements has been steadily rising from GOP strongholds. Other such laws are now virtually certain to follow in states with Republican-controlled legislatures, though it’s unclear how many more can be put into law by November.

Nor has the GOP let up in its other campaigns to restrict access to the polls. Extremely harsh limitations on voter registration campaigns in Florida have severely restricted attempts by the League of Women Voters and others to sign up new voters. GOP election officials also have made it clear they will severely restrict the franchise of those who have minor irregularities in the registration forms, such as an errant middle initial or changed address.

It is also unclear how many electronic voting machines will still be in place come November. Despite a wide range of high-level studies showing them easily hackable, the elimination of touch screen voting machines has proceeded at a glacial pace. No significant federal legislation has been passed to eliminate electronic voting machines or even to make them more secure. With a few exceptions, most notably Florida, progress at the state level has been minimal.

Thus the GOP hope that millions of Americans will be voting on hackable computers this November, and that millions more may be eliminated from the rolls altogether, seems very close to fruition. Whether this will swing the election to John McCain remains to be seen. But this Supreme Court decision allowing the demand for photo ID makes it much more likely.

News Link
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD May 03, 2008, 10:21:01 AM
they need to do something about the ID bullshit that goes on, in California they let illegals vote because they can't make them show ID so they can register and vote with no problems, its a fucking joke,I have to figure that if you don't have ID then why should we let an idiot like that vote?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: JacquesShelock May 03, 2008, 12:00:36 PM
I have absolutely no problem with a voter ID card.  Being from Louisiana, it's state law that anyone over 16 years of age MUST have a state ID, whether it be a driver's license or ID (our ID is driver's license without driving priviledges).  The ones that are bitching are ones that aren't even complying with the current law...

Actually I think they should bring back testing to qualify for voting.  If you don't know the basics of how the government works you shouldn't have a say in who makes it work.  Why should the ignorant have a voice that skews the results from an "intelligent" choice?  Time and time again the brilliant people of New Orleans prove this point (reelecting Mayor Nagin, for example).  Those too stupid to understand how it works keep it from working by electing those that shouldn't be in office in the first place.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx May 06, 2008, 10:10:02 AM
Global Elite Gather in D.C.

James P. Tucker Jr.
American Free Press
May 6, 2008

Luminaries at the Trilateral Commission meeting in Washington expressed confidence that they own all three major presidential candidates, who, despite political posturing, will support sovereignty-surrendering measures such as NAFTA and the “North American Union.”

“John has always supported free trade, even while campaigning before union leaders,” said one. “Hil and Barack are pretending to be unhappy about some things, but that’s merely political posturing. They’re solidly in support.”

He was referring to Sens. John McCain (R-Ariz.), Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) and Barack Obama (D-Ill.).

Mrs. Clinton, they noted, held strategy sessions as first lady on how to get Congress to approve NAFTA “without changes.” As president, they agreed, she would do no more than “dot an i or cross a t.”

Candidate Obama has not denied news reports in Canada that his top economic adviser, Austan Goolsbee, assured Canadian diplomats that the senator would keep NAFTA intact and his anti-trade talk is just “campaign rhetoric.”


While they are confident they can deal with any “potential president,” the Trilateralists paid huge tribute to Ron Paul in an equally large twist of irony, by expressing alarm that he is causing “significant future damage.”

They expressed concern that Paul’s rallies have attracted multitudes of young people who are getting “their political education.” They want Republicans to pressure Paul to drop out now and stop his education rallies. This assignment was given to Thomas Foley, former U.S. House speaker.

The reasons Paul’s “education campaign” strikes fear into Trilateral hearts are obvious. Paul would refuse to surrender an ounce of U.S. sovereignty to an international organization and TC wants world government.

Paul would immediately bring U.S. troops home from Iraq, Afghanistan and from 130 UN “peacekeeping” missions around the globe. TC wants to enjoy war profiteering and global power. Paul would abolish the federal income tax while the TC wants to pile on a global tax payable to the UN.

The formal agenda was loaded with everything Paul and American patriots detest: higher taxes, more foreign giveaways, more immigration, both legal and illegal, into the United States and “engaging Iran,” among others.


The Trilaterals got down to real work on Saturday, April 26, with a high-powered panel called “U.S. Foreign and Domestic Policy: Broad Outlines for a New Administration.”

It was presided over by journalistic pimp David Gergen, who will write nothing about TC in his magazine, U.S News and World Report. Also participating were Kenneth Duberstein, former White House chief of staff for President Ronald Reagan; Strobe Talbot, president of the Brookings Institution and former deputy secretary of state; and Joseph Nye, former assistant secretary of defense. Henry Kissinger, former secretary of state and long-time Bilderberg leader, was present and listed as a participant. But a TC staff member crossed his name out. Some speculated he had throat problems.

This panel had these orders for the next president: increase foreign aid across the board because “America does not pay its fair share,” pay up the arrears in UN dues, allow as many immigrants into the United States as want to come and provide “amnesty” for illegal aliens already here.

Little, if anything, was said about the fact that American taxpayers pay one-fourth of the UN’s operating costs and one-third of the cost of 130 “peacekeeping missions” or the fact that immigrants from South America depress wages here and the average immigrant family costs the government thousands of dollars a year in welfare, health and other “benefits.”

Robert Zoellick, president of the World Bank and another long-time Bilderberg boy, largely echoed these views in a sweetheart “interview” by another journalistic strumpet, Lionel Barber, editor of The Financial Times, who will obediently report nothing.


There were “subgroup” meetings on “climate change,” “water and sanitation” and “migration and development.” Every nation, especially the U.S., should spend big bucks to fight “global warming,” they agreed. The United States should spend more “because Americans cause the most pollution,” one argued. Americans should send more money to Africa so natives can drink clean water and scrub themselves, they said.

Antonio Garrigues Walker, chairman of Garrigues Abogadas y Asesores Tributarios, joined Peter Sutherland, the UN secretary-general’s “special representative on migration and development,” to call on the United States to not only allow unlimited immigration, but to throw more money at Mexico and other impoverished Latin countries. It was, somehow, their “right” to have more U.S. dollars. Sutherland is chairman of British Petroleum and Goldman Sachs International. He is also a long-time Bilderberg leader.


Bill Emmott, another kept journalist, spoke on “the rise of Asia” at a reception-dinner held at the Smithsonian American Art Museum. Emmott, former editor of The Economist, will report nothing.

Sunday morning, Robert Blackwill, former U.S. deputy national security adviser for Iraq, led a panel discussion on “engaging Iran and building peace in the Persian Gulf Region.” For the first time, there was dissent. Blackwill tried to rationalize the invasion of Iraq. Others doubted that Saddam Hussein was connected to the 9-11 terrorist attacks or was a nuclear threat. Blackwill said the military option remains but he hopes diplomatic efforts succeed.

Other participants were Ray Takeyh of the Council on Foreign Relations, which functions as the propaganda ministry for TC and Bilderberg; Volker Perthes, head of the German Institute for International and Security Affairs and Hitoshi Tanaka, former Japanese deputy minister of Foreign Affairs.


More foreigners demanded more U.S. money at a lunch panel called “European and Asian views on U.S. Foreign and Security Policy.” Participants were Elisabeth Guigou, a member of the French National Assembly and former minister for European affairs and Han Sung-joo, former minister of foreign affairs for South Korea.

An afternoon session addressed “global health” with more calls for American tax dollars. A major voice in this cause came from Sylvia Mathews Burwell, president of Global Development Programs, Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Bill Gates has attended at least one Bilderberg meeting.


John Negroponte, U.S. deputy secretary of state, addressed the evening dinner on “U.S. foreign policy perspectives.” Again, the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were rationalized and an invasion of Iran held out as a possibility.

The Monday morning finale addressed the Global Financial Crisis involving these luminaries: Robert Kimmitt, U.S. deputy secretary of the treasury; Martin Feldstein, former chairman of the President’s Council of Economic Advisers; David Rubenstein, managing director of The Carlyle Group; Naoki Tanaka, president of the Center for International Public Policy Studies and Sir Andrew Crockett, president of JP Morgan Chase International.

Among them, there was much talk of the U.S. government’s “duty” to “intervene” on behalf of “financial institutions under stress.” Little or nothing was said of the hundreds of thousands of Americans who are losing their homes because financial institutions lured them into buying houses they could not afford.

Throughout the weekend, no American voices were heard objecting to the demands on their country. Instead, there were smiles, nods and applause.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx May 06, 2008, 03:22:18 PM

The Trilateral Commission: North American Group 2008


Thomas S. Foley  North American Chairman
Peter Sutherland  European Chairman
Yotaro Kobayashi  Pacific Asia Chairman
Allan E. Gotlieb  North American Deputy Chairman
Herve De Carmoy  European Deputy Chairman
Han Sung-Joo Pacific  Asia Deputy Chairman
Lorenzo H. Zamibrano  North American Deputy Chairman
Ainijrzej Olechowski  European Deputy Chairman
Shijuro Ogata Pacific  Asia Deputy Chairman
David Rockefeller  Founder And Honorary Chairman
Paul A. Volcker  North American Honorary Chairman
Georges Berthoin  Chairman European Honorary
Otto Graf Lambsdorf  European Honorary Chairman
Michael J. O’Neil  North American Director
Paul Revay  European Director
Tadashi Yamamoto  Pacific Asia Director


Madeleine K Albright  The Albright Group LLC Washington, D.C.
Graham Allison  Kennedy School of Government, Harvard Cambridge, Mass.
Richard L. Armitage  Armitage International Washington, D.C.
James L. Balsillie  Co-Chief Exec. Officer, Research in Motion Waterloo, Ontario
Charlene Barshefsky Wilmer,  Cutler & Pickering Washington, D.C.
Alan R. Batkin  Eton Park Capital Management New York, N.Y.
Lael Brainard  The Brookings Institution Washington, D.C.
Doug Bereuter  The Asia Foundation San Francisco.
C. Fred Bergsten  Peterson Institute for Int’l Economics Washington, D.C.
Catherine Bertini  Syracuse University Syracuse, N.Y.
Robert D. Blackwill  Former Deputy Asst, to the President Washington D.C.
Dennis Blair, USN (Ret.)  Institute for Defense Analyses Alexandria, Va.
H. Blanco Mendoza Private Office of Herminio Blanco Mexico City
Stephen W. Bosworth  Dean, Tufts University Medford, Mass.
David G. Bradley  Atlantic Media Company Washington, D.C.
Harold Brown  Center for Strategic and Int’l Studies Washington, D.C.
Zbigniew Brzezinski  Center for Strategic and Int’l Studies Washington, D.C.
Sylvia Mathews Burwell  President Global Development Program Hinton, WV
Louis C. Camilleri  Altria Group, Inc New York, N.Y.
Kurt Campbell  CEO Center New American Security Washington, D.C.
Raymond Chrétien  Fasken Martineau DuMoulin LLP Montreal, Quebec
William T. Coleman III  Cassatt Corporation San Jose, Calif.
Timothy C. Collins  Ripplewood Holdings New York, N.Y.
Richard N. Cooper  Harvard University Cambridge, Mass.
F. Gerald Corrigan  Goldman, Sachs & Co. New York, N.Y.
Michael J. Critelli  Pitney Bowes Inc. Stamford, Conn.
Lee Cullum  “NewsHour with Jim Lehrer,” Dallas, Texas
H. Lawrence Culp, Jr  CEO of Danaher Washington, D.C.
Gerald L. Curtis  Columbia University New York, N.Y.
Douglas Daft  The Coca Cola Company Atlanta, Ga.
Lynn Davis  The RAND Corporation Arlington, Va.
Arthur A. DeFehr  Palliser Furniture Winnipeg
André Desmarais  Power Corporation of Canada Montréal, Quebec
John M. Deutch  Mass. Institute of Technology Cambridge, Mass.
Jamie Dimon  JP Morgan Chase & Co. New York, N.Y.
Peter C. Dobell  Parliamentary Centre Ottawa, Ontario
Wendy K Dobson  University of Toronto Toronto
Kenneth M. Duberstein  The Duberstein Group Washington, D.C.
Robert Eckert  Mattel, Inc. El Segundo, Calif.
Jessica P. Einhorn  The Johns Hopkins University Washington, D.C.
Jeffrey Epstein  J. Epstein & Company, Inc. New York, N.Y.
Dianne Feinstein  U.S. Senate (D-Calif.) Washington, D.C.
Martin S. Feldstein  Harvard University Cambridge, Mass.
Roger W. Ferguson, Jr.  Swiss Re America Holding Corp. Washington, D.C.
Stanley Fischer  Bank of Israel; frmr president, Citigroup New York, N.Y.
Richard W. Fisher  Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas Dallas, Texas
Thomas S. Foley  Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld Washington, D.C.
Kristin J. Forbes  Associate Prof. of Int’l Management Cambridge Mass.
Michael B.G. Froman  Citigroup Inc. New York, N.Y.
Francis Fukuyama  The Johns Hopkins University Washington, D.C.
Dionisio Garza Medina  ALFA Mexico
Richard A. Gephardt  Former member House of Reps. (D-Mo.) Washington, D.C.
David Gergen Harvard; Editor, USN&WR Cambridge, Mass.
Peter C. Godsoe  Scotiabank (ret.) Toronto, Ontario
Allan E. Gotlieb  Bennett Jones LLP Toronto, Ontario
Bill Graham  Canadian House of Commons Ottawa, Ontario
Donald E. Graham  CEO of The Washington Post Company Washington, D.C.
Jeffrey W. Greenberg  Aquiline Capital Partners, LLC New York, N.Y.
Richard N. Haass  President, Council on Foreign Relations New York, N.Y.
James T. Hackett  Anadarko Petroleum Corp. Texas
John J. Hamre  Center for Strategic and Int’l Studies Washington, D.C.
William A. Haseltine  Haseltine Global Health, LLC Washington, D.C.
Richard F. Haskayne  University of Calgary Alberta
Charles B. Heck  Senior Adviser, Trilateral Commission Washington, D.C.
Carlos Heredia  International Affairs Mexico
Carla A. Hills  Hills & Company, Int’l Consultants Washington, D.C.
Richard Holbrooke Perseus LLC New York, N.Y.
Karen Elliott  House Dow Jones & Co. & Wall Street Journal Princeton, N.J.
Alej. Junco de la Vega  Grupo Reforma Monterrey, Mexico
Robert Kagan Carnegie  Endowment for Int’l Peace Washington, D.C.
Arnold Kanter  The Scowcroft Group Washington, D.C.
Charles R. Kaye Warburg Pincus LLC New York, N.Y.
James Kimsey  Founding CEO of AOL Washington, D.C.
Michael Klein  Citigroup Inc. New York, N.Y.
Steven E. Koonin  British Petroleum London
Enrique Krauze Editorial Clio Libros y Videos, S.A. de C.V. Mexico City
Robert Lane  Deere & Company Moline, Ill.
Fred Langhammer  The Estee Lauder Companies, Inc. New York, N.Y.
Jim Leach  Former U.S. Representative (R-IA) Washington, D.C.
Gerald M. Levin  AOL Time Warner, Inc. New York, N.Y.
Winston Lord  International Rescue Committee New York, N.Y.
E. Peter Lougheed  Bennett Jones, Banisters & Solicitors Calgary, Alberta
Roy MacLaren  Former High Commissioner to the UK Toronto, Ontario
John A. MacNaughton  Frmr CEO Canada Pension Plan Invest. Brd Toronto, Ontario
Antonio Madero  San Luis Corporacion, S.A. de C.V. Mexico
John Manley McCarthy Tétrault LLP Ottawa, Ontario
Sir Deryck C. Maughan  KKR Asia, Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co. New York, N.Y.
Jay Mazur  Union of Needletrades, Textile Employees New York, N.Y.
James Moore  Canadian Parliament Ottawa, Ontario
Marc H. Morial National Urban League New York, N.Y.
Heather Munroe-Blum  McGill University Montreal, Quebed
Brian Mulroney Ogilvy  Renault Montréal, Quebec
Indra K. Nooyi  PepsiCo, Inc. Purchase, N.Y.
Joseph S. Nye, Jr.  Kennedy School of Government, Harvard Cambridge, Mass.
David J. O’Reilly  Chevron Corporation San Ramon, Calif.
Meghan O’Sullivan  Former Deputy National Security Adviser Washington, D.C.
Richard N. Perle American Enterprise Institute Washington, D.C.
Thomas R. Pickering  Consultant, The Boeing Company Arlington, Va.
Martha C. Piper  The University of British Columbia Vancouver, B.C.
Richard Plepler  Executive Vice President, HBO New York, N.Y.
Joe Ralston, USAF (Ret) The Cohen Group Washington, D.C.
Charles B. Rangel  U.S. House of Representatives (D-N.Y.) Washington, D.C.
Susan Rice  Brookings Institution Washington, D.C.
Hartley Richardson  James Richardson & Sons, Ltd. Winnipeg, Manitoba
Joseph E. Robert, Jr. J.E. Robert Companies McLean, Va.
John D. Rockefeller IV  U.S. Senate (D-W.V.) Washington, D.C.
Kenneth Rogoff  Center for Int’l Development, Harvard Cambridge, Mass.
Charles Rose  The Charlie Rose Show, PBS New York, N.Y.
Irene B. Rosenfeld  CEO Kraft Foods Northfield, Ill
Dennis Ross  Ambassador Counselor and Ziegler Washington, D.C.
David M. Rubenstein  The Carlyle Group Washington, D.C.
Luis Rubio  Center of Research for Development Mexico City, Mexico
Arthur F. Ryan  Prudential Financial, Inc. Newark, N.J.
Jaime Serra  SAI Consulting Mexico City, Mexico
Dinakar Singh  TPG-Axon Capital New York, N.Y.
Anne-Marie Slaughter  Princeton University Princeton, N.J.
Gordon Smith  Centre for Global Studies, U. of Victoria Victoria, B.C.
Donald R. Sobey  Empire Company Ltd. Halifax, Nova Scotia
Ronald D. Southern  ATCO Group Calgary, Alberta
James B. Steinberg  LBJ School of Public Affairs, U. of Texas Austin, Texas
Jessica Stern  Program on Terrorism & the Law, Harvard Cambridge, Mass.
Barbara Stymiest  RBC Financial Group Toronto, Ontario
Lawrence H. Summers  Harvard University Cambridge, Mass.
John J. Sweeney  AFL-CIO Washington, D.C.
Strobe Talbott  The Brookings Institution Washington, D.C.
George J. Tenet  Georgetown Univ., former CIA Director Washington, D.C.
John Thain  New York Stock Exchange, Inc. New York, N.Y.
G. Richard Thoman  Columbia University New York, N.Y.
Paul A. Volcker  Wolfensohn & Co., Inc., frmr Fed. Res. Chair.New York, N.Y.
William H. Webster  Former CIA Director Washington, D.C.
Fareed Zakaria  Newsweek International New York, N.Y.
Lorenzo H. Zambrano  CEMEX Monterey, Mexico
Ernesto Zedillo  Former president of Mexico; Yale Univ. New Haven, Conn.
Mortimer B. Zuckerman  Chairman, U.S. News & World Report New York, N.Y.
William T. Coleman, Jr. Lifetime Trustee, Trilateral Commission Washington, D.C.
Henry A. Kissinger  Lifetime Trustee, Trilateral Commission Washington, D.C.
Robert S. McNamara  Lifetime Trustee, Trilateral Commission,
frmr pres., World Bank; frmr sec.of Defense; frmr pres., Ford Motor. Washington, D.C.
David Rockefeller  Founder, Lifetime Trustee, Trilateral Comm. New York, N.Y.


Patricia Barbizet  CEO Artemis Group, France
Dermot Gleeson  Chairman, AIB Group, Ireland
Elisabeth Guigou  French National Assembly, France
Nigel Higgins  Senior Partner N M Rohschild & Sons, UK
Jerzy Kozminski  President & CEO Polish-American Freedom, Poland
Thomas Leysen  CEO Umicore, Belgium
Manfred Bischoff Chairman, SNCF, France
Arpad Kovacs  Pres. State Audit Office Hungary, Budapest
Friedrich Merz  Member of the German Bundestag, Germany
Pietro Modiano Mng. Director CEO Intesa Sanpaolo, Italy
Hans Reisenhuber  (returning) Member of the German Bundestag, Germany
Jeroen van der Veer  Chief Executive, Royal Dutch Shell, The Netherlands

read the list
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: nadir May 06, 2008, 07:10:36 PM
Looking at the list the have Dennis Blair (USN Ret.) as working for or affiliated with the Institute for Defense Analyses.  this would be incorrect.  He resigned that post over a year ago over a conflict of interest by holding stock in a Boeing while IDA did analyses on large defense contracts that Boeing was the prime or a major subcontractor on.  It was uncovered and he was forced to resign from the company.  He was replaced by the former head of IDA, Gen. Welch, who was asked to come back and repair the image of the institution because of Adm. Blairs and, frankly, IDA's fucking up of the vetting of Blair.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx May 08, 2008, 04:31:57 PM
10 Steps to Fascism
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx May 13, 2008, 12:50:47 AM
  Eco Group Calls For “Voluntary Human Extinction”

Steve Watson
Monday, May 12, 2008

An environmental group says it’s sole purpose is to recruit volunteers and educate enough people to eventually realize that the human race needs to completely die out in order that the planet can survive.

The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement (VHEMT) says humans need to stop breeding and voluntarily progress our own slow demise in order that plants, animals and fragile ecosystems can survive.

The group’s motto is "May we live long and die out". Their website explains their commitment to a long term goal of convincing the population of Earth that it has no future:

    It has been suggested that there are only two chances of everyone volunteering to stop breeding: slim and none. The odds may be against preserving life on Earth, but the decision to stop reproducing is still the morally correct one. Indeed, the likelihood of our failure to avoid the massive die off which humanity is engineering is a very good reason to not sentence another of us to life. The future isn’t what it used to be.

    Even if our chances of succeeding were only one in a hundred, we would have to try. Giving up and allowing humanity to take its course is unconscionable. There is far too much at stake.

    The Movement may be considered a success each time one more of us volunteers to breed no more.

The movement is at pains to explain that it does not advocate suicide, abortion, mass murder, or any form of FORCED population control, yet it does advocate a total reduction in human population down to zero:


    VHEMT Supporters favor this goal, while Volunteers see extinction as the only sure way to avoid breeding ourselves back to today’s density.

The group rejects being labeled Malthusian or Eugenicist because in their words, they "care about life on planet Earth":

    VHEMT (pronounced vehement) is a movement not an organization. It’s a movement advanced by people who care about life on planet Earth. We’re not just a bunch of misanthropes and anti-social, Malthusian misfits, taking morbid delight whenever disaster strikes humans. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Voluntary human extinction is the humanitarian alternative to human disasters.

The group maintains that human do not have a place in nature and have become parasitic:

    The fossil record shows that each time Homo sapiens entered a continent, a spasm of extinctions followed. Exotic invaders typically disrupt ecosystems, and we are no exception.

    On some philosophical level there is no doubt some truth feeding the myth. However, by examining our daily lives, and asking ourselves, "What part of my normal day is a part of Nature?" the sad truth is revealed.

A further read around the VHEMT site leaves a very sour taste for anyone who happens not to agree that the human race should be systematically wiped out. This movement is very calculated in its unwavering explanation and rationalization of an eventuality totally at odds with the history of evolution. It even appeals to different philosophies and religions and attempts to use their dogma to bolster it’s own views.

In an interview with World Net Daily, a spokesperson for the group, going under the pseudonym Les U. Knight, highlights the pure doublethink that one must engage in in order to come to the conclusions this group do:

    "It’s an idea, and it’s not transferred genetically," he said. "We aren’t born knowing we should go extinct; we have to learn it. We don’t need to create new humans in order to indoctrinate them from birth. All of us come from breeding couples, and yet we’ve decided not to breed."

Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of this group is that it equates itself with a general freedom movement. describing it’s ideal as "reproductive freedom" rather than "population control". However a thorough read through their material makes it clear that the group is intent on imposing its views on people in order to change their mindset, whether they like it or not.

In their opening message the group states:

    We don’t carry on about how the human race has shown itself to be a greedy, amoral parasite on the once-healthy face of this planet.

Yet in the very next section they state:

    Great progress will be made toward improving the quality of life on Earth by countering greed with responsibility, ignorance with education, and oppression with freedom.

And in following sections:

    We were once like the otter, part of the ecosystem. Then we developed agriculture, and have become parasitic, depending on exploitation of Nature for our survival, but giving nothing back.

We have previously warned how "green" groups have attempted to associate climate change and environmental problems with over population and suggest that the solution is to implement depopulation policies and punishments for those who flout them.

People are indeed being indoctrinated to think that reproducing is bad for the planet.

This outlook is being seized upon by a globalist elite whose raison d’etre is to control and restrict our growth and progress for their own benefit. As Alex Jones documents in his seminal documentary End Game, this mindset is endemic amongst the elite.

This hijacking of eco groups and activists alike and is intended to push a green fraud to mask the agenda to mold a worldwide neo feudalist society where a global body regulates and micro manages every aspect of our lives down to when we can and cannot move around and when we can and cannot reproduce.

News Links

New World Order On Trial
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD May 13, 2008, 05:16:18 PM
I could make a movie with a plot line like that.......................

I'll call it 12 Monkeys.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx May 19, 2008, 03:34:11 PM
 Iran Busts CIA-Backed Terror Group

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Monday, May 19, 2008


The Iranian Intelligence Ministry busted a CIA-backed terror group that was planning to bomb scientific, educational, and religious centers, and carry out assassinations, according to a report in the Tehran Times. The arrests come weeks after Ret. Gen. Thomas McInerney urged the U.S. to carry out terror bombings in Iran.

"The Intelligence Ministry on Saturday released details of the detection and dismantling of a terrorist network affiliated to the United States," reports the newspaper.

"The United States Central Intelligence Agency comprehensively supported the terrorist group by arming it, training its members, and sponsoring its inhumane activities in Iran, the Intelligence Ministry stated."

The attack on a religious center in Shiraz last month which killed thirteen people and wounded 190 was blamed on the same group and according to the report, "it also had plans to carry out similar attacks on the Tehran International Book Fair, the Russian Consulate in Gilan Province, oil pipelines in southern Iran, and other targets."

While it’s obviously naive to take a report out of Iranian state-controlled media at face value, top Neo-Cons have been calling for the US to back terror groups in Iran and other reports clearly indicate that this program has already been in place for years.

On Friday we reported on the comments of Ret. Gen. Thomas McInerney, who in a Fox News appearance publicly called for the U.S. government to support groups like MEK (Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization), which is listed by the State Department as a terrorist organization, and carry out deadly bombings in Iran.

"Here’s what I would suggest to you. Number one, we take the National Council for Resistance to Iran off the terrorist list that the Clinton Administration put them on as well as the Mujahedin-e Khalq at the Camp Ashraf in Iraq," said McInerney.

"Then I would start a tit-for-tat strategy which I wrote up in the Wall Street Journal a year ago: For every EFP that goes off and kills Americans, two go off in Iran. No questions asked. People don’t have to know how it was done. It’s a covert action. They become the most unlucky country in the world," he added.

Last November, Fox and Friends host Brian Kilmeade openly called for US support for acts of terrorism, such as car bombings, in Tehran. Colonel David Hunt, who has over 29 years of military experience including extensive operational experience in Special Operations, Counter Terrorism and Intelligence Operations, agreed with Kilmeade, stating "absolutely" in response to Kilmead’s question about whether cars should start blowing up in Tehran.

The U.S. government is already funding MEK and the group has been linked with numerous bombings inside Iran over the course of the last few years. The organization has also killed U.S. troops and civilians since the 70’s.

According to Global, "In the early 1970s, angered by U.S. support for the pro-Western shah, MEK members killed several U.S. soldiers and civilians working on defense projects in Iran. MEK members also supported the 1979 takeover of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, in which 52 Americans were held hostage for 444 days."

In addition - British SAS have been caught training insurgents in Iraq to carry out hi-tech bombings that are later blamed on Iran.

Another Iranian-based terror group that the Bush administration is already funding as a means of regime change in Iran is Jundullah - a Sunni Al-Qaeda terrorist group formerly headed by the alleged mastermind of 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

"The CIA is giving arms-length support, supplying money and weapons, to an Iranian militant group, Jundullah, which has conducted raids into Iran from bases in Pakistan," the London Telegraph reported last year.

The group has been blamed for a number of bombings inside Iran aimed at destabilizing Ahmadinejad’s government and is also active in Pakistan, having been fingered for its involvement in attacks on police stations and car bombings at the Pakistan-US Cultural Center in 2004.

As award-winning journalist Seymour Hersh reported back in 2004, U.S. intelligence and Israel’s Mossad are busy at work stirring up trouble in Iran in preparation for an attack on that country. In early 2005, the Guardian reported that “American special forces have been on the ground inside Iran scouting for US air strike targets for suspected nuclear weapons sites."

News Links

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx May 21, 2008, 12:33:38 PM
Government Insider: Bush Authorized 911 Attacks

Pakistan Daily
May 21, 2008

Keep in mind when reading this, that the man being interviewed is no two-bit internet conspiracy buff.

Stanley Hilton was a senior advisor to Sen Bob Dole (R) and has personally known Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz for decades. This courageous man has risked his professional reputation, and possibly his life, to get this information out to people.

The following is from his latest visit to Alex Jones’ radio show.

Note: All honor to Stanley Hilton for risking his life so that we may know the truth of 9/11.

The Bush Junta Unmasked

“This (9/11) was all planned. This was a government-ordered operation. Bush personally signed the order. He personally authorized the attacks. He is guilty of treason and mass murder.” –Stanley Hilton

Alex Jones interview of Stanley Hilton, attorney for 911 taxpayers’ lawsuit

AJ: He is back with us. He is former Bob Dole’s chief of staff, very successful counselor, lawyer. He represents hundreds of the victims families of 9/11. He is suing Bush for involvement in 9/11. Now a major Zogby poll out - half of New Yorkers think the government was involved in 9/11. And joining us for the next 35 minutes, into the next hour, is Stanley Hilton. Stanley, it’s great to have you on with us.

SH: Glad to be on.

AJ: We’ll have to recap this when we start the next hour, but just in a nutshell, you have a lawsuit going, you’ve deposed a lot of military officers. You know the truth of 9/11. Just in a nutshell, what is your case alleging?

SH: Our case is alleging that Bush and his puppets Rice and Cheney and Mueller and Rumsfeld and so forth, Tenet, were all involved not only in aiding and abetting and allowing 9/11 to happen but in actually ordering it to happen. Bush personally ordered it to happen. We have some very incriminating documents as well as eye-witnesses, that Bush personally ordered this event to happen in order to gain political advantage, to pursue a bogus political agenda on behalf of the neocons and their deluded thinking in the Middle East. I also wanted to point out that, just quickly, I went to school with some of these neocons. At the University of Chicago, in the late 60s with Wolfowitz and Feith and several of the others and so I know these people personally. And we used to talk about this stuff all of the time. And I did my senior thesis on this very subject - how to turn the U.S. into a presidential dictatorship by manufacturing a bogus Pearl Harbor event. So, technically this has been in the planning at least 35 years.

AJ: That’s right. They were all Straussian followers of a Nazi-like professor. And now they are setting it up here in America. Stanley, I know you deposed a lot of people and you’ve got your $7 million dollar lawsuit with hundreds of the victim’s families involved.

SH: 7 billion, 7 billion

AJ: Yeah, 7 billion. Can you go over some of the new and incriminating evidence you’ve got of them ordering the attack?

SH: Yes, let me just say that this is a taxpayers’ class action lawsuit as well as a suit on behalf of the families and the basic three arguments are they violated the Constitution by ordering this event. And secondly that they [garbled] fraudulent Federal Claims Act, Title 31 of the U.S. Code in which Bush presented false and fraudulent evidence to Congress to get the Iraq war authorization. And, of course, he related it to 9/11 and claimed that Saddam was involved with that, and all these lies.

AJ: Tell you what, stay there. Stanley, we’ve got to break. Let’s come back and get into the evidence. BREAK

AJ: All right my friends, second hour, the anniversary of the globalist attack coming up. It’s an amazing individual we have on the line. Bob Dole’s former chief of staff, political scientist, a lawyer, he went to school with Rumsfeld and others, he wrote his thesis about how to turn America into a dictatorship using a fake Pearl Harbor attack. He’s suing the U.S. government for carrying out 9/11. He has hundreds of the victims’ families signing onto it - it’s a $7 billion lawsuit. And he is Stanley Hilton. I know that a lot of stations just joined us in Los Angeles and Rhode Island and Missouri and Florida and all over. Please sir, recap what you were just stating and then let’s get into the new evidence. And then we’ll get into why you are being harassed by the FBI, as other FBI people are being harassed who have been blowing the whistle on this. So, this is really getting serious. Stanley, tell us all about it.

SH: Yeah, we are suing Bush, Condoleezza Rice, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Mueller, etc. for complicity in personally not only allowing 9/11 to happen but in ordering it. The hijackers we retained and we had a witness who is married to one of them. The hijackers were U.S. undercover agents. They were double agents, paid by the FBI and the CIA to spy on Arab groups in this country. They were controlled. Their landlord was an FBI informant in San Diego and other places. And this was a direct, covert operation ordered, personally ordered by George W. Bush. Personally ordered. We have incriminating evidence, documents as well as witnesses, to this effect. It’s not just incompetence - in spite of the fact that he is incompetent. The fact is he personally ordered this, knew about it. He, at one point, there were rehearsals of this. The reason why he appeared to be uninterested and nonchalant on September 11th - when those videos showed that Andrew Card whispered in his ear the [garbled] words about this he listened to kids reading the pet goat story, is that he thought this was another rehearsal. These people had dress-rehearsed this many times. He had seen simulated videos of this. In fact, he even made a Freudian slip a few months later at a California press conference when he said he had, quote, “seen on television the first plane attack the first tower.” And that could not be possible because there was no video. What it was was the simulated video that he had gone over. So this was a personally government-ordered thing. We are suing them under the Constitution for violating Americans’ rights, as well as under the federal Fraudulent Claims Act, for presenting a fraudulent claim to Congress to justify the bogus Iraq boondoggle war, for political gains. And also, under the RICO statute, under the Racketeering Corrupt Organization Act, for being a corrupt entity. And I’ve been harassed personally by the chief judge of the federal court who is instructing me personally to drop this suit, threatened to kick me off the court, after 30 years on the court. I’ve been harassed by the FBI. My staff has been harassed and threatened. My office has been broken into and this is the kind of government we are dealing with.

AJ: Absolutely and now it has come out - five separate drills of flying hijacked jets into buildings that morning - which you told us about before it even broke in the Associated Press. They were trying to get out ahead of you. You talked about how you interviewed military people who were told it was a drill that morning. Then to get out ahead of that, the news finally reported on it. Now, we’ve learned that all these operations - I want to get into that, I want to talk about the new incriminating evidence of ordering it and how they had drilled on this, how Cheney was in the bunker controlling this. That has even come out in the mainstream news but they won’t release the details of that, Stanley. But what type of FBI harassment are you going through? SH: First of all, my office was burglarized in San Francisco several months ago. Files were gone through and some files were seized - particularly the ones dealing with the lady that was married to one of the hijackers. Fortunately, I had spare copies in a hidden place so nothing disappeared permanently. But more significantly, FBI agents have been harassing one of my staff members and threatening them with vague but frightening threats of indicting them. And it’s just total harassment. They have planted a spy, an undercover agent, in my organization, as we just recently discovered. In other words, these are Nazi Germany tactics. This is the kind of government you have in this country. This is what Bush is all about.

AJ: Stay there, Stanley, Bob Dole’s former chief of staff. We’ll come back after this quick break. Please stay with us. BREAK

AJ: All right, eight minutes, 25 seconds into the second hour. Stanley Hilton, political scientist, lawyer, Bob Dole’s former chief of staff, is suing the government for 7 billion dollars for carrying out 9/11 and for racketeering. And he joins us now. During the break, I first really did the big interview with Stanley Hilton after I saw him attacked on Fox News. And that interview got massive attention. And then he kind of went underground for a while because a judge, we’re going to talk about that, ordered him to not do any more interviews. And now he’s back doing interviews. He’s had his office broken into, FBI threats and harassment. Bottom line, he has deposed military individuals, wives of hijackers, you name it, it was a government operation. It has even come out in mainstream news, a piece here, a piece there. They had drills on 9/11, that’s why NORAD stood down. Cheney was in control of the whole thing. Stanley Hilton has now gotten documents about how Bush ordered the whole operation. And I’ll tell you right now, his life is in danger, folks. And he’s got so much courage. He went to school with these neocons at the University of Chicago. He wrote his thesis on how the government could use terrorist attacks to set up martial law. He is the man for the time and folks wondered why he disappeared for a while and just did his lawsuit and wasn’t doing interviews, it was because he was ordered to. Stanley, can you get into that for us?

SH: I did an interview with you, Alex, about a year and a half ago, and literally two weeks after that, I was contacted by the emissary of the chief judge of the federal court where I have the lawsuit. And I was warned not to publicize it but to keep it quiet and threatened with discipline. And it remained quiet until a couple of months ago and then I got on the air on some programs and some publicity and July 1st, I was threatened directly by the chief judge here, threatened with court discipline. This particular judge has been circulating communiqués to the other federal judges seeking anything negative she can get against me to try and discipline me after I’ve been on the court here for 30 years with no disciplinary problems at all. This is suddenly happening. And her assistants who are on the committee of the court met with me on July 1st in Palo Alto, California, and threatened me directly. They handed me a copy of the lawsuit and said that the judge wants me to dismiss this. What’s this? She doesn’t like the content of it. This is politically incorrect. This is outside the norm. I said I represented more than 400 plaintiffs, how am I going to dismiss this case? And they threatened me directly and they said, “the next time you’ll be disciplined.” And also they’ve threatened me not to go public, etc. And this is just outrageous.

AJ: It’s all color of law. No direct orders, just all in your face.

SH: They sent a letter out, and of course they deny it’s because of the political content of the suit but they told me directly on the phone that it is because of this suit and this judge is very, very angry, apparently has been in contact with Ashcroft’s Justice Department. I got a call from Ashcroft’s Justice Department a few months ago about this, demanding that I drop the suit, threatening sanctions and all kinds of things. I refused to drop it. AJ: Now let’s go back over, you had them break into your office, harassment. Let’s go over that in detail.

SH: My office was broken into about 6 months ago. The file cabinets - it was obvious they had been rifled through. Files were stolen. Files dealing with this particular case and particularly with the documents I had regarding the fact that the - some of these hijackers, at least some of them were on the payroll of the U.S. government as undercover FBI, CIA, double agents. They are spying on Arab groups in the U.S. And, in effect, all this led up to the effect that al Qaeda is a creation of the George Bush administration, basically. That the entity that he called al Qaeda is directly linked to George Bush. And all this stuff was stolen. Fortunately, I had copies. But this was just part of the harassment. The FBI has also been harassing some of my assistants and has planted a spy in our midst. And it is just outrageous that these Nazi tactics are being used - and the obstruction of justice, these people are criminals. And that’s what’s happening under the tremendous pressure here to just drop it. Or to shut up now and just go away.

AJ: Now, let’s talk about what they want you to drop. Let’s talk about, without giving names, the people you deposed, what really happened, the picture you’ve got. You said earlier that Bush ordered this, they were simulating this which they now admit there were simulations on that morning. Let’s go over what they don’t want you to talk about, Stanley.

SH: We have evidence both documentary as well as witness sworn statements from undercover former FBI agents, FBI informants, etc., that other officials in the Pentagon and the military and the Air Force that deal with the fact that there were many drills, many rehearsals for 9/11 before it happened. Bush had seen this simulated on TV many times. He blurted this out at a press conference in California a few months after 9/11 where he said he had, quote, seen the first plane hit the first building on the video. And that’s not possible because there was no official video of that. There was one of the second plane not the first one. He had seen the first one. We do have some incriminating documents that Bush personally ordered 9/11 events. It was well planned. A FEMA official has admitted on tape that he was there the night before - September 10th, that is

AJ: And now Mayor Giuliani, a few months ago in the 911 Commission, admitted that - Tripod II. They had their whole command post already moved out of Building 7. Now, this is very, very important. This is a key area of this whole event. You said months before it came out on the CIA’s own website and the Associated Press, you said I deposed people. They said there were drills that morning and exactly what happened, happening - that was the smoke-screen for the stand-down. And then to get out ahead of it, the CIA comes out and said yeah we were running a drill that morning. Now, we’ve learned that five, possibly six, were confirmed. Five of these - one drill with the exact same thing happening that actually happened, at the exact same time in the morning. That’s why NORAD stood down with 24 different blips on the screen. You’ve said this. You brought this up first. Now, I know you can’t get too much into detail but can you tell us how you learned of this?

SH: I have interviewed individuals in NORAD and the Air Force. I personally toured NORAD many years ago around the time that I worked for Dole. I’m very familiar with the operations at Cheyenne Mountain at Colorado Springs, where NORAD is. Individuals that work in NORAD as well as the Air Force have stated this, off the record, but the point is, yes, this was not just five drills but at least 35 drills over at least two months before September 11th. Everything was planned, the exact location

AJ: But five drills that day.

SH: That day, that day, and Bush thought it was a drill. That’s the only explanation for why he appeared nonchalant

AJ: We also had NORAD officers and civilian air traffic controllers going, “Is this part of the exercise? Is this a drill?”

SH: Yes.

AJ: On the tapes and in TV interviews, they thought it was, quote, a drill.

SH: That’s right. That’s exactly what I said long before it became public. I’ve known about this since earlier in March of ‘03, as I stated before. This was all planned. This was a government-ordered operation. Bush personally signed the order. He personally authorized the attacks. He is guilty of treason and mass murder. And now, obstruction of justice by attempting to use a federal judge and FBI agents to inhibit a legitimate civil lawsuit in this country, in federal court. Even a chief judge in this court tried to harass and threaten me personally for representing legitimate plaintiffs. And they got Clinton for allegedly lying under oath about Paula Jones and now - look what’s happening now. And Ken Starr used to be across from me in Duke Law School in the early `70s and it´s interesting that he got away with trying to get Clinton impeached, so we have a far worse criminal sitting in the oval office today - somebody guilty of mass murder as well as obstruction of justice.

AJ: Well, I mean look, they say they never heard of a plan to fly planes into buildings - said it all over television - Rice, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft. And then we find out they were running all these drills that morning. Even if they weren’t involved, that proves they were liars about ever hearing of such a plan.

SH: Well, I’m trying to take their depositions - I’ve been trying to take their depositions for months. They’ve been trying to object to it. They will have to admit they were either lying then or now. It’s clearly perjury either way. They are liars and perjurers; that’s what they are. These are the people that we have running this government and, of course, they knew about it. How are they going to claim now that they didn’t know about these drills? Their idea is that nobody knew anything. It’s the old know-nothing mentality. And how anybody considers this believable is beyond me.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD May 21, 2008, 03:00:58 PM
there actually is film of the first plane hitting the tower,it came from a camera man that was filming a fire house crew that day,he pans up and you see the plane hit the first tower.

that doesn't mean this guy is wrong.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx May 21, 2008, 03:02:38 PM
AJ: All right, now people ask how could a huge organization, how could the AWACs, how could the military let this happen; whereas before, if your Cessna got off course for five minutes, they would launch F-16s on you. It’s real simple. It’s what Stanley Hilton said here a year and a half ago. It’s what came out in the news after that. The military, good people, were told this was all a drill. And it was not a drill. And ABC News admits that Cheney was in control of [?] out of the White House [?] and that he ordered the military to quote “do something.” Our inside sources from Hilton and others say it was a stand down and they admit they will not release that under national security. Stanley?

SH: Well they are going to admit it, they’re going to release it in the court case because if you demand it under subpoena powers and they must release it. And part of our lawsuit is brought in the name of the U.S. because under the federal fraudulent [Claims Act], we accuse the Bush Administration of presenting a fraudulent claim to Congress. And under the statutes of Title 31 of the U.S. code, they must release this information. That’s why they are trying to threaten me, harass me, invade my office, steal my files, commit blatant obstruction of justice and other crimes to try and prevent a legitimate civil suit from exposing these criminals and their acts of treason and mass murder.

AJ: I think you need to publicly tell folks that you are not planning suicide. Would you like to tell folks that?

SH: (laughs) I’m not planning suicide. I’ve got family and I’m not planning that but I don’t like the threats I’m under - but I can tell you this, it’s taking a toll emotionally on me and my staff. And particularly, when you get a threat from the chief judge of your own court.

AJ: Why have you decided to go public again after a year of being under the radar? SH: Because the more and more evidence that I’ve been adducing over a year and a half has made it so obvious to me that this was now without any doubt a government operation and that it amounts to the biggest act of treason and mass murder in American history. I mean George Bush makes Benedict Arnold look like a patriot. He makes Benedict Arnold look like George Washington. I mean that’s what we have - a criminal and a traitor sitting in the White House pretending he’s a patriot, wrapping himself in the flag. And it’s pretty disgusting because the other side of the so-called opposition, the Kerry camp is just saying nothing because they’re afraid to speak.

AJ: Stay right there. We’ll be right back.


AJ: Stanley Hilton will be with us for another 15 or 16 minutes. Then he’s got to go into court. Bob Dole’s former chief of staff, political scientist, lawyer, represents 400 plus plaintiffs - most of them victims of 9/11. When I was in New York last week, everybody I was talking to, I mean 90 plus percent of them at ground zero - “I had family, I worked in the buildings, my son’s a Navy Seal - he called the night before and said don’t go to work.” You know, all of this, and then now they never had any idea - and it turns out they had all these drills - and one drill of hijacked jets flying into the World Trade Center and Pentagon at 8:30 in the morning. That morning - come on people! And Stanley Hilton brought all this out on this show before it was in the mainstream news. And I was talking to him during the break. I mean, the harassment, the moles, the threatening of his staff, the judge threatening him. Stanley, let’s get specifically into the documents that you have now got that they have now been robbing you for, that you luckily, thank God had copies. Specifically, Bush ordering this. Can you get into that for us - ordering 9/11? SH: National Security Council classified documents which [garbled] and it’s was part of a series of documents that were involved with the drill documents. This was all planned - they had it on videotape. These planes were controlled by remote control, as I stated previously a year and a half ago, there’s a system called Cyclops. There is a computer chip in the nose of the plane and it enables the ground control, the military ground control, to disable the pilot’s control of the plane and to control it and to fly it directly into those towers. That’s what happened. It’s also a technology used on what’s called the Global Hawk, which is an aircraft drone - a remote- controlled aircraft. And they were doing it. We are talking about National Security Council classified documents that clearly indicated that [garbled] had a green light to order this to go and this is no drill. These drills that were running were clearly a dress rehearsal and this was a government operation. You wonder why these people are trying to threaten people and trying to intimidate people who have written this suit, I guess if you murdered 3000 of your own citizens, in conjunction with the corrupt Royal family of Saudi Arabia as Bush did. And if you then waste billions more on a worthless garbage war in Iraq, I guess you’ve got something to worry about and you want to threaten people to prevent it from coming out.

AJ: I mean let’s look at this. Not only are there dress rehearsals, they are smoke screens so the good military stands down and doesn’t know what’s happening. But it’s now coming out, even in mainstream news, that yes these drills were going on. Yes, and some of these drills, quote, passenger-type jets were under remote control - this is decades old technology. In 1958, NORAD was [ ] old jets and using them for target practice. Decades ago they flew jumbo jets from LA to Sidney Australia. So since that’s going on, everybody knows that. And it’s the same MO. Just like the first World Trade Center [bombing] where they get two retarded men who followed this blind sheik who had a tiny mosque above a pizza parlor. And they set them up as the patsies. Then the FBI cooks the bomb, trains the drivers. This informant goes, “You’re not going to bomb the building? They go “Yeah, we’re letting it go forward.” He tapes them to protect themselves. The two retarded gentlemen, thank God, didn’t park it up against the column, as the FBI instructed them to do, so it didn’t bring down the tower - because you have to be right up against the column. That doesn’t happen. Yet, it’s the same thing with 9/11. You’ve got these CIA agents, these Arabs, who were trained at U.S. military bases, Pensacola Naval Air Station - mainstream media, out creating their legends for this background. They’re on board the aircraft. My military sources say nerve gas kills everybody on board the plane - nerve gas packets. Then they fly the planes into buildings. From your inside sources, is that accurate?

SH: It’s one of the things that we are looking into - that nerve gas or something else disabled people. It’s possible. I can’t say for sure to be honest with you

AJ: All you know is they were government agents and they were on board and the planes were remote controlled.

SH: Yeah, it was basically a smokescreen. I mean, the events of the hijackings, how someone snuck in those cutters, it was a plant. It was like a classic decoy. I’ve got some military background. And it’s called decoy. It’s a decoy operation. You make the people focus on the decoy to avoid looking at the real criminals. So they are focusing on these so-called nineteen hijackers and saying, “Oh, it must have been these Arabs. When, in fact, the guilty person is at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue - sitting in the oval office. That’s the guilty person. That’s the one who authorized it. There is only one man who could have authorized this operation and that’s Bush. And anyone at NORAD will tell you as I have been told personally at NORAD in the war control room, there is only one man who has the power to do this kind of thing and that’s Bush. Even though many believe he’s a puppet. And I think in many ways he is. The fact of the matter is where was [ ] Cheney, Rumsfeld and these other traitors. The fact is Bush personally ordered and he’s guilty and liable and he’s going to be re-elected apparently because the media’s asleep and [garbled] for Bush.

AJ: Well, the media is owned by the same military industrial complex that carried out the attacks.

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx May 21, 2008, 03:03:16 PM
Part 3

SH: Yeah, the media is only interested in maintaining the official government fantasy that this was a little lone Arab. These Arabs couldn’t even steer that plane down a runway.

AJ: Stay there Stanley, final segment coming up. BREAK

AJ: Mr. Hilton, when you talk to these FBI agents, when you talk to these military men and women, what’s their attitude? They’ve got to be pretty freaked out to have the big picture and know what actually happened on 9/11.

SH: Yes, you know it’s like clouds just before a thunderstorm in the sense that they are sort of pregnant with rage. They are just enraged at the criminal politicians who have perverted and misused the government to murder its own citizens and pursue these dubious political ends. And many of them, in increasing numbers, are willing to talk and will talk under subpoena - but only under subpoena because the official party line of the government is shut up and don’t talk to the trial lawyer. But more and more, they are very outraged that part of the government has done this to its own people, to its own people. I mean you have to go back to Stalin to see something - not even Hitler did this to his own people. You have to look at Stalin who murdered the Kulaks, the Russians for his own dubious gains. Also we’ve got - we have a Stalinist mentality in this country. And, if these people pose as patriots and wrap themselves in the flag, it’s disgusting. I wanted also to point out that the Japanese television network, Asahi, is going to be airing a special on primetime tomorrow, on September 11th. They interviewed me for eight hours a couple of weeks ago. I’ll be on that. I wish - of course, the America media don’t care so they are not going to care. But in Japan, people are very serious in interviewing me and others. And we have a website now, called, if more people are interested: But the other thing, I just wanted to say that if anything happens to me - and I don’t know why - because I’m being threatened here now. And it seems you can’t bring a case in this country anymore against criminals in power without being threatened. And this is how they operate. The stakes are pretty high when you’ve got a world historical level of treason and fraud by this government against it’s own people. I guess this is what you have to expect.

AJ: Stanley, the globalists, the new world order crowd, definitely intend to carry out more terror attacks. I know they would have carried out more attacks if we wouldn’t have done what we’ve been up to, if you wouldn’t have been out there boldly speaking out and many others. And then their electronic Berlin wall has a bunch of cracks in it now. Thanks to good people like yourself and many others who are speaking out and telling the truth. But do you think that they may carry out what they’ve been hyping - a suitcase nuke attack, a biological release to try to smokescreen all of this? I know it’s a catch 22, you’ve got to expose the murderers. We’ve got to get the word out on this but some government people that I’ve talk to say, “Yeah, but if you do that, they are going to go even more hard core and must totally try to take over.” But I say regardless, they are already doing that. So what do you say to that?

SH: Well, yeah, I think they have an agenda. They have contingency plans. I think they are laying low now because there are an increasing number of people, like myself, who are openly challenging them and accusing them of criminal conduct. I think they would have done it again if we had not spoken up. I think they’re planning, what they would like to do is silence any dissenters. That’s why we are trying to get the Patriot Act declared unconstitutional in this lawsuit also.

AJ: Let’s talk about polls. In the beginning a patriot is a scarce man, hated and feared, but in time when his cause succeeds, the timid join him, because then it costs nothing to be a patriot. You are one of those guys who hit the barbwire for us, or figuratively jumped on the hand grenade for America. But when you’ve got a Zogby poll, who is highly respected, half of New Yorkers believe that the government was involved. When you have a Canadian poll, 63% on average believe that the U.S. government was involved. And some groups, as high as 76% in polls believe the government was involved. European polls, two- thirds show the same thing. We have German defense ministers and technology ministers and another member of their government now, three of them going public, known conservatives, and progressives. You have an environment minister, Michael Meacher, saying that if they didn’t do it, they sure as hell knew what was going on. Look, if anybody who is a thinking person looks at the evidence, their official story is impossible. Then you investigate and they are involved in it. Comments to this massive awakening and what’s happening.

SH: Well, I think that’s why they want the Patriot Act to suppress political dissent. They have to, they’re anticipating, they are not dumb individuals. I know these people personally, Wolfowitz. These are criminal individuals but they are smart and so they anticipated political dissent. And that’s why, like the Nazis, their forebears, and their blood brothers, the Nazis and the Stalinists, they’re all for political repression. Every corrupt and criminal government has done this - they suppress their own people: Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, Mao Tse-Tung, that’s why we have the Patriot Act. So it’s hand in hand. They had it planned to go right up to September 11th, this was all part of the plan. You have to do it. It was part of my senior thesis. You must follow through the terrorists attacks with a political suppression mechanism in the law. And that’s why they want Patriot I and Patriot II and their plans are to continue launching more terrorist attacks to justify even more repression. The goal is to make this a one party dictatorship in this country, to pursue their dubious ends with their blood brothers like the Saudi Royal family. And also, historical blood brothers, such as the Nazi Germany and the Communist Russian. That’s the goal

AJ: You’ve got to go in just a minute or two. But I wanted to also tell you about New York. Sound cannons that are used in Iraq, they’re against us. Men in black ski masks. 41,000 police, accredited media being arrested randomly. Children being arrested, people in wheelchairs, 2000 plus people put in a camp with barbwire fences inside with no bathrooms. You had to have permission to go to the porta-potties. Police screaming at you. It had nothing to do with terrorism. They are openly setting the precedent for martial law.

SH: Well, that’s right, the word terrorist is now being overly broad and overly defined [garbled] and also, you know, it’s like the word communist was used for anything during the McCarthy witch hunt. And anybody can be called a terrorist by Bush’s definition. But the irony is that the number one terrorist in the world is living at the White House at the oval office today. That’s the real irony. For sheer hypocrisy, I think he deserves the world prize and ought to be in the Ripley book, Believe It or Not, and the Guinness book of world records for sheer brazen chicanery and fraud.

AJ: Let me ask you a question on this because this is the experience that I had. Watching television, watching the killers, watching those that are guilty, stand up there as our saviors is incredibly painful. It’s like watching Ted Bundy being the judge at his own trial. I mean it is just painful to know who these people are. To see them putting America in a shredder. Now we are going to have forced psychological testing of every American, forced drugging, you know Pan-American unions, I mean it’s just all happening, it’s in our face, Stanley.

SH: Yeah, it’s very disturbing and as one who has studied the theory and concept of dictatorships, I personally interviewed Albert Speer, who was Hitler’s armaments minister. I interviewed him in 1981 in Munich. And I’ve studied the psychology and history of totalitarianism and there is no question that it’s very frightening. And it has, today, with high technology, albeit for the first time in history, the chance of having a world empire dominated by corrupt, technologically oriented government - an elite government. And they’ve got now what people like Napoleon and Hitler didn’t have, which is the technological means to dominate not only their own country but others - the world.

AJ: The answer is to expose them as the terrorists, to show how PNAC [Project for the New American Century] said we need helpful Pearl Harbor events, to show how Northwoods called for the exact 9/11-style attacks, to show their own plans. And to force people to face this horror. What are they going to do in a year or two when 80% of us, not half of us, know the truth?

SH: Well, that’s why they want repression and, then again, the ancient old diversion, launch another terrorist attack to get people to pitch it away. I mean who knows what they’ll do next. I mean their capacity for ingenious creation of these events is sort of unraveled. I mean there is no limit. My guess is they are going to try another stunt - maybe a stunt just before the election to justify getting Bush reelected. Although it seems like he is running against a straw man or a ghost right now, anyway. But, my guess is they’ll try some other tactic to get people’s attention away from 9/11 if it gets to be too much attention. What you really want is for the public to just lose interest because the public - and it’s like remember the Alamo, you know, people don’t forget things like that. To me it’s like the Alamo, remember 9/11, that ought to be the slogan for this outrageous act of treason. That’s what it is. It’s not

AJ: We are at a crossroads, I don’t think they anticipated this much resistance, Stanley.

SH: Yeah, I hope they are truly wrong and as incompetent as they are corrupt and guilty. That means their incompetence is exceeded only by their corruption and their guilt. And eventually, if enough people are going to get outraged enough, these people in the bureaucracy and in the civil service and our military, and eventually we can get people under subpoena these individuals will be exposed.

AJ: Stanley, their whole operation hinges on us being naïve and not recognizing evil. This is what they got with Hitler and others. People couldn’t recognize evil so they continued to repeat succumbing to it. We are recognizing it this time. We are putting our lives, our treasure, our future on the line for freedom because we cannot let these blood-thirsty control freak terrorists capture us and use us and turn us into the empire and have a draft and use us as their slaves to invade the planet. And that’s their PNAC plan. Stanley Hilton, I know you’ve got to get to court. God bless you. I want to thank you for being here with us today. Can we get you back on next week?

SH: Sure, just give me a call.

AJ: God bless you my friend. Any closing comments?

SH: My closing comments would be, I think people ought to just think about the consequence of having someone like Bush in the White House and the danger for the future that these sorts of individuals pose. This is not just a historical event of the past. This is part of the plan and the camera is still rolling. They have an agenda. These individuals are extremely dangerous. They are armed and dangerous. They pose a clear and dangerous threat to every freedom-loving person not only American but in the whole world.

AJ: You are absolutely right Stanley Hilton. They have captured the government. They have not captured the peoples’ minds and they are counting on us not facing up to it.

SH: And they are counting on the repressive Patriot Act and threats and chief judges and FBI agents threatening people who are exposing them. That’s what they are counting on.

AJ: But you’re not backing down are you, my friend.

SH: No, I’m not

AJ: Well, we all stand with you, my brother, and God bless you.

SH: All right. Thank you.

News Link
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 May 22, 2008, 04:27:45 PM

Out of oil? Yep, we we ran out of that .20/gal gasoline in the 60's. Now it looks like we are out of $1/gal in the 2000's. But there is a lot of oil left on the planet. Technology is getting better to find oil deeper and in more remote areas. And, who knows how much is in Antarctica?

In Saudi Arabia gas is .43/gal, in Venezuela gas is .12/gal. It has been .12/gal in Venezuela since gas was 1.00 in America.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx May 22, 2008, 10:51:17 PM
fucking powerful maroon thanks for the post.

The american people's ignorence will bring the end of them

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx May 27, 2008, 03:05:54 AM
Corporations Steal Billions from United Nations Climate Change Program

John Vidal
The Guardian
May 26, 2008

Surprise, surprise. Corporations are stealing United Nations funds supposedly earmarked to reduce carbon emissions. Of course, the carbon and climate change agenda has nothing to do with saving the planet and everything to do with creating an effective control grid system for humanity. It is only natural for multinational corporations to skim a bit of cream off the top of the scam.

Billions of pounds are being wasted in paying industries in developing countries to reduce climate change emissions, according to two analyses of the UN’s carbon offsetting programme.

Leading academics and watchdog groups allege that the UN’s main offset fund is being routinely abused by chemical, wind, gas and hydro companies who are claiming emission reduction credits for projects that should not qualify. The result is that no genuine pollution cuts are being made, undermining assurances by the UK government and others that carbon markets are dramatically reducing greenhouse gases, the researchers say.

The criticism centres on the UN’s clean development mechanism (CDM), an international system established by the Kyoto process that allows rich countries to meet emissions targets by funding clean energy projects in developing nations.

Credits from the project are being bought by European companies and governments who are unable to meet their carbon reduction targets.

The market for CDM credits is growing fast. At present it is worth nearly $20bn a year, but this is expected to grow to over $100bn within four years. More than 1,000 projects have so far been approved, and 2,000 more are making their way through the process.

A working paper from two senior Stanford University academics examined more than 3,000 projects applying for or already granted up to $10bn of credits from the UN’s CDM funds over the next four years, and concluded that the majority should not be considered for assistance. “They would be built anyway,” says David Victor, law professor at the Californian university. “It looks like between one and two thirds of all the total CDM offsets do not represent actual emission cuts.”

News Links
: ABC website tells kids when they should die
: [Ht]LOx May 28, 2008, 02:59:46 PM
ABC website tells kids when they should die


Karlis Salna
May 27, 2008

An ABC website has been accused of portraying farmers and forestry workers as evil and telling kids how much carbon they can produce before they die.

The Planet Slayer website, which can be accessed via the science section on the ABC home page, also demonises people who eat meat and those involved in the nuclear industry, a Senate estimates committee heard.

The site has several features including a cartoon series, Adventures of Greena, and a tool called Prof Schpinkee’s Greenhouse Calculator to help kids work out their carbon footprint.

The calculator lets users compare their own carbon output to the “average Aussie greenhouse pig” and estimates at what age a person should die so they don’t use more than their fair share of the Earth’s resources.

Too much carbon production causes a cartoon pig to explode, leaving behind a pool of blood.

Victorian Liberal senator Mitch Fifield today questioned the accuracy and appropriateness of some of the imagery and content on the website.

“I know there’s a little bit of goth in all of us, but this might be taking it just a little too far,” Senator Fifield said of the quasi life-expectancy calculator.

“Do you think it’s appropriate that the ABC portray the average Australian as a pig and is it appropriate for a website obviously geared towards kids to depict people who are average Australians as massive overweight ugly pigs, oozing slime from their mouths, and then to have these pigs blow up in a mass of blood and guts?”

News Links,25642,23765244-5014239,00.html
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx June 04, 2008, 05:01:27 AM
  Cops in the District of Criminals Get Semi-Auto Carbines

June 1, 2008

Editor’s note: Funny how it works… D.C. has spent years disarming the public through unconstitutional laws and now the cops get combat rifles.

WASHINGTON — Civil rights activists say the move to arm District of Columbia Police Department patrol officers with semiautomatic weapons is going overboard.

Officers will be given AR-15 rifles this summer as a way to combat dangerous criminals on the streets, The Washington Post reported Saturday

It is reported 352 officers completed training programs to handle the weapons, which have not been used in street patrols until now.

“We want to be prepared. I want officers to have what they need to be safe,” Police Chief Cathy L. Lanier said.

Critics argue the weapons only increase the threat of danger on the street and are unnecessary.

“Against a backdrop of danger and harm that could result from high-powered weaponry, it doesn’t seem to make sense.”

“I wonder why at a time when we’re trying to get guns off the street, we’re putting more guns on the street,” said Johnny Barnes, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of the National Capital Area.

News Links
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 June 06, 2008, 12:45:12 PM

Iraq doesn't seem to want US troops anymore, so why are we there?
Oh yeah, big profits for the select few while the whole economy goes into the crapper.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 June 06, 2008, 03:17:16 PM
When Lox said we were going to see $200/barrel oil I though he was crazy. Now, I am just hoping he was right and the pain stops there.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx June 09, 2008, 05:48:47 AM
Has the Government Looted the Gold at Fort Knox?

George Washington's Blog
Saturday, June 7, 2008

A group called the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee claims that the U.S. government has defrauded the American people out of the nation's wealth. Specifically, the group claims that the U.S. has secretly sold, leased or otherwise frittered away half of its entire gold reserves to pay for past military adventures abroad and other ill-conceived actions. Furthermore, the group claims that the government has intentionally covered up this loss of gold reserves through accounting fraud.

Are they right?

Well, as described by Darryl Robert Schoon in his book "How to Survive the Crisis and Prosper in the Process":

    Frank Veneroso is the author of the Gold Book Annual, probably the most comprehensive study and analysis of gold markets available today. One of the world’s foremost financial analysts, Veneroso’s clients have included the World Bank, the Organization of American States, sovereign nations and global money managers.

    Frank Veneroso is also chief investment strategist for RCM Global Investors, the equity investment arm of Allianz Dresdner, the giant German insurance conglomerate which also owns the PIMCO bond funds, the bailiwick of Bill Gross.

    It was in compiling the statistics on gold markets that Veneroso discovered that the Central Banks were hiding the vast majority of their gold loans from public view. Veneroso estimated that by the late 1990s, the highly lucrative and still hidden gold-carry trade amounted to 10,000 to 15,000 tonnes of gold.

    The Central Banks pointed to their books which showed receipts showing large amounts of gold on deposit. What Veneroso suspected and found to be true, however, was that the gold wasn’t there. Ten to fifteen thousand tonnes of gold, an amount far larger than the Central Banks would admit, had been loaned to the investment banks in order to suppress the price of gold and now, in Veneroso’s opinion, were never coming back.

Veneroso noted that the amount of physical gold lent, 10,000-15,000 tonnes, is far too large for investment banks to repurchase without causing the price of gold to explosively rise, the very result the Central Banks had set out to prevent.

The success of the gold-carry trade had led to its failure. Now, at the cost of almost half of their gold reserves, the Central Banks are left only with promissory notes from investment banks instead of the tons of physical gold they had once possessed.

Whereas someone you know, perhaps even yourself, may in the very near future be forced out of their foreclosed home by bank order, rest assured that the investment banks will suffer no consequence for not repaying the gold they borrowed from Central Banks, gold that belonged to the nations that lent it, not its Central Bankers. In matters of finance, especially, the “even hand of justice” is reserved primarily for those that cannot afford it. It is estimated that in the past, Central Banks’ holdings of gold totaled 32,000 tonnes; and Veneroso’s figures show that perhaps 50 % of that is gone. This newly-discovered charade of Central Bank bookkeeping is as fraudulent as Enron’s; and as with Enron, the bookkeepers were complicit in the deception.

See also this.

Are Veneroso and GATA right? I don't know.

But given that the wealth and stability of our nation is at stake, we should support their attempts to find out. The group has launched a campaign and filed a freedom of information act request to uncover the truth.

If you don't have any background in the history of gold, here is a very brief history:

    * The world's leading currencies (or "reserve currencies") have traditionally been backed by gold, at least since the days that shells were the preferred trading standard

    * At the end of World War II, it was agreed by the wealthiest nations through the Bretton Woods agreement that the U.S. would be the world's reserve currency, but that the U.S. dollar would be backed by physical gold (the "gold standard")

    * Because of huge over-spending on foreign military adventures, the U.S. had a gold deficit and was on the verge of economic disaster, and so in 1971 Richard Nixon suspended the gold standard (i.e. he de-linked the dollar from its gold backing)

    * GATA and others allege that the U.S. and other wealthy nations have since intentionally suppressed the price of gold so as to make their non-gold backed currencies seem more valuable, and to hide the true level of inflation effecting paper money

    * Part of this suppression has allegedly included dumping gold from Fort Knox and foreign gold repositories onto the gold market whenever the price of gold has drifted upward too much for their liking

News Links

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 June 09, 2008, 06:48:52 PM
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx June 10, 2008, 11:26:19 AM
HAHHA MAROON SO FUCKING TRUE.......................Time For News


Secret Bilderberg Agenda To Microchip Americans Leaked
Elitists want to microchip Americans in name of fighting terrorism, Europeans universally opposed to attack on Iran, Globalists fear oil prices rising too quickly

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Tuesday, June 10, 2008

Sources from inside the 2008 Bilderberg meeting have leaked the details of what elitists were discussing in Chantilly Virginia last week and the talking points were ominous - a plan to microchip Americans under the pretext of fighting terrorist groups which will be identified as blonde haired, blue eyed westerners.

Veteran Bilderberg sleuth Jim Tucker relies on sources who regularly attend Bilderberg as aides and assistants but who are not Bilderberg members themselves. The information they provided this year is bone-chilling for those who have tracked the development of the plan to make the general public consider implanted microchips as a convenience as routine as credit cards.

"Under the heading of resisting terrorism there were points made about how the terrorist organizations are recruiting people who do not look like terrorists - blonde, blue eyed boys - they're searching hard for those types to become the new mad bombers," said Tucker.

As we have documented, the blue eyed blonde haired Al-Qaeda line is a familiar talking point that has been pushed on Fox News and within other Neo-Con circles in an attempt to turn the anti-terror apparatus around to target dissidents, protesters and the American people in general.

Ominously, Tucker's source also told him that Bilderberg were discussing the microchipping of humans on a mass scale, which would be introduced under the pretext of fighting terrorism whereby the "good guys" would be allowed to travel freely from airports so long as their microchip could be scanned and the information stored in a database

Tucker said the idea was also sold on the basis that it would help hospital staff treat a patient in an emergency situation because a scan of the chip would provide instantaneous access to health details.

Tucker underscored that Bilderberg were talking about subdermally implanted chips and not merely RFID chips contained in clothing. The discussion took place in a main conference hall and was part of the agenda, not an off-hand remark in the hotel bar.

Such a bizarre concept may seem unbelievable to some, but over the last ten years there have been dozens of examples of people accepting implanted chips for a variety of different reasons.

In 2004, Mexico's attorney general and 160 of his office staff were implanted with tracker chips to control access to to secure areas of their headquarters.

The Baja Beach Club in Barcelona and other nightclubs around the world are already offering implantable chips to customers who want to pay for drinks with the wave of a hand and also get access to VIP areas of the club lounge.

Bilderberg skeptical of attack on Iran
Tucker's source told him that Secretary of Defense Robert Gates did attend Bilderberg despite him not appearing on the official list.

Tucker said that his sources told him Gates was in attendance to present his case for war with Iran, but that the majority of Bilderberg members were against an attack at this time.

"The Europeans were generally opposed to an invasion of Iran - Gates made the regular war propaganda drill about how Iran is a nuclear threat to everybody," said Tucker, adding that European Bilderbergers made snide comments about where such nuclear weapons actually were being kept and at one point joking that they were possibly "in Saddam Hussein's tomb".

Despite Bilderberg opposition, Tucker said that the administration was still considering an attack before Bush leaves office in January.

"At least 90 per cent of the Europeans oppose a war, probably closer to 100 per cent," said Tucker, adding, "most of the Americans were passive and deferential to the Secretary of Defense and Condoleezza Rice's pitch in so far as Iran is concerned".

Tucker said that most Americans present at the meeting were opposed to attacking Iran but dare not be as visible and loud in their opposition as the Europeans.

Energy and oil prices
"One of the Bilderberg boys raised this question - should we put a lid on the rise in oil prices, are we reaching the point of diminishing returns," said Tucker, adding that Bilderberg noted how Americans were trading in their SUV's in record numbers for small and more fuel efficient cars and using more public transport to combat high gas prices.

Tucker's source said that Bilderberg were predicting $5 for a gallon of gas by the end of this summer and oil over $150 dollars a barrel, but that this was a ceiling and oil prices would probably begin to decline thereafter because they thought the acceleration had happened too quickly.

As we previously reported, Bilderberg called for oil prices to soar in 2005 when oil was a mere $40 a barrel.

During the conference in Germany, Henry Kissinger told his fellow attendees that the elite had resolved to ensure that oil prices would double over the course of the next 12-24 months, which is exactly what happened.

During their 2006 meeting in Ottawa Canada, Bilderberg agreed to push for $105 a barrel before the end of 2008. With that target having been smashed months ago, the acceleration towards $150 is outstripping even Bilderberg's goal, which is why the elitists expressed a desire to cool prices at least in the short term.

Just two days after he left Bilderberg, Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, George W. Bush and others expressed support for a strong dollar and Bernanke hinted that interest rates could rise, which immediately caused oil prices to drop in line with Bilderberg's consensus.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 June 12, 2008, 08:00:48 PM

Good God, now the petroleum companies admit that they can't even make a profit with a gas station. Shows where all the money is going which we all knew. The poor gas station owner has to have a fast food place and a grocery store to survive any more. I certainly hope that isn't the next increase in fuel, the station owners (who deserve more) start charging more.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: nadir June 12, 2008, 10:34:25 PM
Here is the behind the story to that in an article in the Wash. Post a month or so ago.

It will piss you off even more.

Every time Sohaila Rezazadeh rings up a sale at her Exxon station on Chain Bridge Road in Oakton, her cash register sends the information to Exxon Mobil's central computers. If she raises the price of gasoline a couple of pennies, chances are that Exxon will raise the wholesale price she pays by the same amount.

Through a password-protected Web portal, Exxon notifies Rezazadeh of wholesale price changes daily. That way the oil giant, which is earning about $3.3 billion a month, fine-tunes the pump prices at the franchise Rezazadeh has owned for 12 years.

Now, however, Rezazadeh says she cannot stay in business. Credit-card fees are eating her profit margins. Exxon, which owns the station land, last week handed Rezazadeh a new lease raising her rent about 30 percent over the next three years. She stuck a copy on the window of her station to show customers who are angry about soaring pump prices. Rezazadeh has told Exxon that she cannot make money with the rent that high. Her territory manager's reply, she said, was simple: When you go, leave us the keys.

Rezazadeh, who fled to the United States from Iran in 1979, is part of the long chain that links motorists with the big oil companies. Major integrated U.S. oil companies -- which produce crude oil, own refineries and sell gasoline -- have been reaping billions of dollars in profit from high oil prices over the past two years, but they are still working to extract every penny they can from the marketing end of the business. Exxon Mobil doesn't break out its earnings from marketing alone, but its 2007 profits in worldwide refining and marketing -- known as the downstream part of the oil business -- reached $9.6 billion, 43 percent of that coming from the United States.

Although Exxon owns and operates few stations anymore -- less than 10 percent of the 12,000 Exxon outlets in the United States -- it uses franchise agreements to maintain tight control over stations that bear its brand. The company dictates everything from the number of pumps to hygiene practices to the placement of food on convenience store shelves. "They monitor everything," Rezazadeh said.

Exxon says it does all this to maintain uniform quality, while recognizing dealer needs. "We recognize . . . that we are in a difficult time with the run-up in crude oil prices," said Ben Soraci, director of U.S. retail sales for Exxon. "Retailers are under a lot of pressure, and they are on the front lines every day with the motorist, who is also feeling a lot of pressure."

Ultimately, Soraci said, "it's in our interest to see them succeed. It's not in our interest to see them hand us the keys."

But some Exxon dealers say the company is trying to squeeze too much out of them.

Like Rezazadeh, Scott Burnham was struggling to cope with low margins and rising rents. On May 9, he closed his station on scenic Knickerbocker Road in Closter, N.J., and abandoned it to Exxon. In March, Exxon had said it would raise his rent by a third over two years. Burnham tried to line up buyers for the franchise, which he purchased for $475,000 just two years ago. But one backed out, saying that the station would lose money no matter how much gasoline it sold.

"Why is the government giving Exxon subsidies and tax breaks when they're making billions of dollars and when they squeeze every dime they can out of every dealer who made that profit for them?" Burnham said.

Soraci said rent increases reflect rising real estate values. "We have excellent real estate out there that is superior to our competition," he said, which allows the dealers to "compete more effectively."

Even some of Exxon's successful and loyal dealers complain. Jerry Daggle owns five Exxon stations in Northern Virginia, and even though they have different competitive conditions and prices, "Exxon magically lets me make about 8 cents a gallon" at each one, he said.

He said micromanaging extends to the snacks sold at Exxon's On the Run convenience stores. The company uses a "planogram" to show dealers where to put candy bars and soda. "If I want to put Coke on a different shelf, I have to get special permission," Daggle said. Recently he was reprimanded for selling mulch on the perimeter of his award-winning Gainesville station; the mulch, though popular in the neighborhood, wasn't an approved product.

Technology has enabled Exxon to tweak its wholesale prices not just by region or state, but by zones as small as a street corner. Although such practices bring cries of outrage from some station owners, they elicit shrugs from some economists.

"Retailers put a lot of effort into understanding local markets, whether they're in the airline business where prices for every seat are often determined on daily basis, or book sellers," said Richard J. Gilbert, an economics professor at the University of California at Berkeley, who has studied the gasoline marketing business. "There's a lot of fine-tuning to adjust prices to local market conditions. The gasoline companies are not very different in that regard."

"We feel very strongly that zone pricing is a method of pricing that at end of the day allows our dealers to be as competitive as they can be at the retail level," Soraci of Exxon said. "It gives us the opportunity to give a particular retailer or trade area a lower price if competitive conditions require that."

Daggle, who has been an Exxon dealer for two decades after working his way up from pumping gas, said he has done well. But he still cannot fathom how the oil company can charge him different wholesale gasoline prices for each of the five Northern Virginia stations he owns. The stations all sell the same Exxon-branded gasoline, delivered from the same terminal in Newington, where it arrives via the same pipeline. Sometimes, Daggle said, it's even dropped off by the same truck and driver hours apart on the same day.

The only thing that's different is the price, which can vary by 35 cents per gallon, Daggle said. "If I could have driven a truck to Gainesville and drive the gas from there to Shirlington, I could have made 50 cents a gallon."

On occasion, he said, he has persuaded Exxon to lower his wholesale price to help match price cuts by a station next door in Gainesville.

Historically, gasoline marketing has been a low-margin business. For decades, when oil was plentiful, margins were kept low to move as much crude oil through the system as possible. Now, major companies don't have to fight to move product, but they are still battling for nickels and dimes at the pumps.

Like other parts of the retailing business, gasoline marketing has become more concentrated and high volume than it was in the days when mom-and-pop gas stations lured customers with free drinking glasses.

Cambridge Energy Research Associates, a consulting firm, noted in a report that in 1977, the United States had 223,118 gasoline outlets. By 2007, the number of outlets had declined to 164,292 -- even as the amount of gasoline sold increased. The average station now pumps 73 percent more than in 1977. And companies are trying to boost revenues by attaching convenience stores to the stations. In 1977, only 5 percent of gas stations had convenience stores; now, 65 percent do.

"The industry we're part of is an extremely competitive industry," said Exxon's Soraci. He said major oil companies' market share has dropped 20 percent in recent years as mass merchandisers such as Costco vie for customers.

Oddly enough, when prices are rising rapidly and consumers are most upset is usually when profit margins are slimmest for station owners. When prices are falling, as they were in September 2006, is usually when jobbers and station owners make the most money.

How much depends largely on Exxon. "If I had raised my gas, within a couple of days, almost inevitably, they would have raised my wholesale price. It's an unspoken rule," Daggle said. He said his Gainesville station makes most of its money from repairs, not gas sales.

Selling gas remains a cutthroat business in an industry awash in profits. Three years ago, when Daggle bought the Gainesville station, a share of Exxon stock was about $50. Buying and fixing up the station has cost him $800,000, and he hasn't yet drawn a profit from it. "If I had bought the stock," he said, he would have nearly doubled his money and would have "never lifted a finger."
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx June 17, 2008, 01:20:22 AM
Report: U.S. Gave Green Light For Taliban Prison Attack

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Monday, June 16, 2008


Reports out of the Middle East indicate that U.S. forces gave the green light for the Taliban to attack a government prison in Kandahar this past Friday and stood idly by while Taliban fighters violently freed more than 1000 inmates.

"Experts in regional affairs believe that Taliban militants attacked the Kandahar prison with the green light from US forces," reports Press TV.

"They say it is questionable - how could the militants dare attack the prison with US-led troops stationed just northeast of the jail?"

"The sources also noted that although clashes between Afghan security forces and the militants lasted for several hours, US-led troops did not intervene."

"Ordinary people share the idea, asking how is it possible that hundreds of militants could attack a government prison, detonating more than 800 kilograms of explosives and foreign forces show no reaction."

Why would U.S. forces stand idly by while 600 hundred Taliban fighters were freed?

The report notes that "Afghans are tired of war and that only a few illiterate people, called Taliban, are fighting foreign forces."

Without an enemy to fight, there would be no justification for a continued U.S. and NATO presence in Afghanistan. There would be no more weapons sales contracts and no more rebuilding contracts for Halliburton.

Remember, this miraculous prison break occurred just days before Gordon Brown agreed to send hundreds more British troops into Afghanistan to put the British presence there at an all time high.

The necessity for continued violence in Afghanistan exists just like it does in Iraq, for the pretext of justifying an endless military occupation and the opportunity to build military bases that will be used as launch pads for future wars, as is now being discussed for Iraq.

As we have highlighted in the past, links between Taliban leadership and the U.S. military-industrial complex are documented.

As Seymour Hersh reported in January 2002, at the height of the war in Afghanistan, hundreds of Taliban fighters "accidentally" ended up on U.S. organized special safety corridor airlifts right before the fall of Kunduz.

The Taliban itself was a creation of the CIA having been set up and bankrolled by the U.S. in tandem with Pakistan’s ISI.

“In the 1980s, the CIA provided some $5 billion in military aid for Islamic fundamentalist rebels fighting the Soviet occupation in Afghanistan, but scaled down operations after Moscow pulled out in 1989. However, Selig Harrison of the DC-based Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars recently told a conference in London that the CIA created the Taliban “monster” by providing some $3 billion for the ultra-fundamentalist militia in their 1994-6 drive to power," reported the Times of India.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx June 18, 2008, 03:07:13 PM
Royal Bank of Scotland issues global stock and credit crash alert

Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
June 18, 2008

The Royal Bank of Scotland has advised clients to brace for a full-fledged crash in global stock and credit markets over the next three months as inflation paralyses the major central banks.

“A very nasty period is soon to be upon us - be prepared,” said Bob Janjuah, the bank’s credit strategist.

A report by the bank’s research team warns that the S&P 500 index of Wall Street equities is likely to fall by more than 300 points to around 1050 by September as “all the chickens come home to roost” from the excesses of the global boom, with contagion spreading across Europe and emerging markets.

Such a slide on world bourses would amount to one of the worst bear markets over the last century.

RBS said the iTraxx index of high-grade corporate bonds could soar to 130/150 while the “Crossover” index of lower grade corporate bonds could reach 650/700 in a renewed bout of panic on the debt markets.

“I do not think I can be much blunter. If you have to be in credit, focus on quality, short durations, non-cyclical defensive names.

News Link

: Bodies in WTC 7: Jennings Interview Demolishes Official Version
: [Ht]LOx June 23, 2008, 11:11:45 AM
Kurt Nimmo
June 23, 2008

It is obvious watching the BBC’s trailer of its "The Conspiracy Files: 9/11 - The Third Tower," set to air on Sunday, 6 July, that "Auntie Beeb" will attempt to make it appear Building 7 at the WTC complex came down as a result of fire (see trailer below). In other words, it appears the BBC will push — and defend — the government explanation hastily cooked up after attention was focused on the mysterious collapse by researchers, a collapse diligently ignored by the 9/11 Commission in its final report, or that is to say its final whitewash.

The BBC interviewed Dylan Avery, writer and director of the documentary "Loose Change," and during the interview the BBC disputed Avery’s claim that there were dead bodies in the lobby of Building 7 as the result of an explosion prior to the collapse of either WTC buildings. In order to make his point, Dylan showed the BBC video footage of one Barry Jennings, the New York City Housing Authority worker who made the claim of dead bodies strewn in the rubble. The Jennings interview included here was to appear in Loose Change, but Mr. Jennings had reservations after receiving threatening phone calls. He was worried about losing his job and requested the interview not be included.

Jennings, and Mike Hess, New York’s corporation counsel and a good buddy of then mayor Rudolph Giuliani, went to the Office of Emergency Management (OEM) on the 23rd floor of WTC 7, but when they arrived found the office evacuated, a situation at odds with the whitewash report. "After the South Tower was hit [at 9:03], OEM senior leadership decided to remain in its ‘bunker’ and continue conducting operations, even though all civilians had been evacuated from 7 WTC," the report states (Final Report of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, pp. 305). The whitewash commission’s description runs counter to a report published in The London Independent on September 13, 2001, indicating that Jennings and Hess arrived at the OEM by the time the South Tower was hit, indicating the center was evacuated earlier than officially claimed.
The BBC trailer for "The Conspiracy Files: 9/11 — The Third Tower.

According to Hess, when they used the stairs — the elevator was inoperable — to go down to the eighth floor, “there was an explosion” and they were “trapped on the eighth floor with smoke, thick smoke, all around us, for about an hour and a half.” The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) claims the two men went down the stairs after 9:59, when the first collapse occurred, and were trapped around the time the second tower collapsed at 10:28, a claim at odds with the version published in the London Independent. "After the second plane hit they scrambled downstairs to the lobby, or what was left of it. ‘I looked around, the lobby was gone. It looked like hell,’ Mr Jennings said."

In the video here, Jennings says the lobby of WTC 7 was so destroyed he did not recognize it as such, it was "total ruins," and the fireman escorting him instructed Jennings and Hess not to look down because "we were stepping over [dead] people… and you know you can feel when you are stepping over people." Jennings’ story indicates, contrary to the official version of events, that a bomb or bombs had gone off in WTC 7, well before either WTC buildings collapsed (the south tower collapsed at 9:59 a.m. and the north tower followed at 10:28 a.m.). For the government and the corporate media, the Jennings narrative is problematic, to say the least.

As the BBC’s role is to obfuscate what really happened at WTC 7 and push the official version, now increasingly under scrutiny, we can expect the world’s largest media corporation to ignore Jennings’ narrative, recorded last year by Avery and Loose Change co-creator, Jason Bermas.

"This is vital information because it is in direct conflict with the official claim that no one was killed inside building 7. The 9/11 Commission report did not even mention building, yet here we have a key witness who told them he saw dead people inside the building after explosions had gutted the lower level," wrote Steve Watson on June 19, 2007.

Keep Reading Below
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx June 23, 2008, 11:16:52 AM
    What makes all this information even more explosive is the fact that this individual [now revealed to be Barry Jennings] was interviewed by the 9/11 Commission as they conducted their so called investigation.

    The fact that the building was not even mentioned in the report in light of this information thus becomes chilling and indicates that officials have lied in stating that they have not come into contact with evidence of explosive devices within the buildings.

    Avery and Bermas successfully contacted the individual after discovering a TV interview he did on 9/11 while they were trawling through news footage from the day in research for the Final Cut.

Jennings’ description of dead bodies in the bombed out lobby of WTC 7 underscores multiple accounts of bombs in the buildings, from firefighters, law enforcement officers, and other extremely credible witnesses, including the New York Fire Department Chief of Safety, the Assistant Fire Commissioner, and an FBI agent quoted by USA Today (see video at left). For a comprehensive review of these accounts and many others, see Firefighters and law enforcement officers believe that bombs inside the WTC brought down the buildings on the Global Research site.

It will be interesting to see how the BBC handles this aspect of the WTC 7 collapse. More than likely, they will ignore Avery’s evidence and push the ludicrous fairy tale that fire so weakened the building it had to be "pulled," as Larry Silverstein so infamously claimed in the PBS’ propaganda piece, "America Rebuilds." As should be obvious to all who pay attention, the textbook demolition of WTC 7 undermines the entire official fairy tale of what happened on the morning of September 11, 2001, and that is why it was not included in the whitewash commission’s report, although NIST has since lamely attempted to blame the collapse on the improbable failure of a single column that supposedly lead to the subsequent failure of the building’s 27 core columns, precipitating a total collapse.

Fairy tales aside, it should be obvious what happened to WTC 7 — it was fitted with a bomb or bombs and was intended to collapse at approximately the same time as the other buildings. This plan failed miserably and the September 11 conspirators had no choice but to bring the building down late in the afternoon — to "pull it," as Silverstein explained — and hurriedly cobble together a fantastic and unbelievable explanation that fire had weakened the steel frame structure and precipitated its collapse.

Mr. Jennings story demolishes the official fairy tale version and it will be interesting to see how the BBC and the corporate media deal with his story. More than likely, they will continue to ignore the facts — the WTC buildings were brought down through demolition, not as a result of fire, and Mr. Jennings’ story serves as a capstone in the ongoing effort to bring out the truth and ultimately bring to justice the perpetrators.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx June 24, 2008, 08:33:03 AM
In Their Own Words: Admissions from the people who wrote the 9/11 Commission Report that it was compromised

9/11 Blogger | June 23, 2008

Quotations from Without Precedent: The Inside Story of the 911 Commission, by Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton

"We were set up to fail" (14).

"The chief obstacle was the White House, which argued that the congressional inquiry was continuing, and that an independent investigation would distract the government from waging the ongoing war on terrorism" (17).

"The two sides decided to split the difference, allowing eighteen months for the inquiry—a period of time that proved insufficient" (20).

"The White House also suggested some candidates for executive director for our staff. The importance of this position cannot be overstated" (22).

"…we seriously only considered one candidate: Philip Zelikow…. Zelikow was a controversial choice. In the 1990s, as an academic, he had co-authored, with Condoleezza Rice, a book about German unification, and he later assisted Stephen Hadley in running the National Security Council transition for the incoming Bush administration in 2000-2001" (28).

p align=”left”>"…our office space and employees had to be cleared by the FBI and CIA to handle top-secret information…" (34)

"After Philip Zelikow came on board as executive director, he began recruiting and interviewing candidates…. Zelikow was selected with little consultation with the rest of the committee, but several commissioners had concerns about the kind of inquiry he would lead" (35)

"…Zelikow drove and organized the staff’s work…" (38)

"The House Republican caucus and Speaker Dennis Hastert’s office remained the most difficult obstacles. Throughout the life of the commission, and indeed through the passage of intelligence reform legislation based upon our recommendations, the strongest congressional wariness came from House Republicans" (45)

"We had to decide: How deep and how far do the roots of 9/11 run? That is a difficult question to answer…. In a way, we would define what information was relevant to 9/11 by asking for it" (58)

"We soon encountered problems, both in obtaining information and with the laborious conditions placed on our access to some information" (63)

"We decided against an aggressive use of subpoenas for several reasons…. Furthermore, we knew that many of the most important documents we sought were potentially the subject of an executive privilege claim—meaning that the president might not be legally compelled to share that material with another branch of government, even with a subpoena" (64)

"We were supposed to be independent, not necessarily confrontational. We were investigating a national catastrophe, not a White House transgression; this was 9/11, not Watergate" (65)

"When the Joint Inquiry report was released, there were twenty-eight blank pages where information had been ‘redacted’ from public view…. By being secretive, the government opened the door to cynicism and conspiracy theories…. The core of the problem is the fact that people in government can get in trouble for revealing something that is secret, but they cannot get in trouble for stamping SECRET on a document. Thus the default rule becomes: when in doubt, classify. Particularly in our early days, the 9/11 Commission faced this problem" (69)

"The White House wanted strict limitations on both of these fronts—limiting staff with access to White House documents to just two or three people, limiting the commissioners with access to certain materials to just the chair and vice-chair, and restricting the amount of notes the staff could bring back to the 9/11 Commission’s office" (72)

"…the FAA had turned over to us the distilled product of their own internal investigation into 9/11, but had failed to turn over the extensive raw materials that had gone into that investigation, even though that is precisely what our staff had asked for" (83)

"There were also discrepancies between things NORAD was telling us about their performance on the morning of September 11—things that the agency had stated publicly after 9/11—and the story told by the limited tapes and documents the commission had received…. These were puzzling and disturbing developments, and they account in part for some of the more bizarre and inaccurate conspiracy theories about 9/11."
"Farmer believed that NORAD was delivering incomplete records with the knowledge that the commission had a fixed end date that could be waited out" (86)

"Many interviews were recorded, though we were not permitted to record those conducted with current officials from the Executive Office of the President" (98)

"The FBI and CIA were fairly responsive; the Department of Defense was less so. But it was clear that the government’s interrogators were not asking the detainees the kinds of questions we wanted answered…. We also had no way of evaluating the credibility of detainee information…. In some cases, we could corroborate the truthfulness of what a detainee was reported to have said by comparing that information with other evidence. But in some cases we couldn’t; and in others, detainees offered contradicting accounts" (119)

"Where we could corroborate these detainee reports from other witnesses or evidence, we did. Where we could not, it was left to the reader to consider the credibility of the source—we had no opportunity to do so" (124)

"Senior officials from the FAA and NORAD—Jane Garvey and Craig McKinley—made statements about the timeline of 9/11 that were later proven to be inaccurate" (127)

"Staff statements also gave us a chance to work out a process for clearing material for publication by the White House. We were determined to avoid the fate of the Joint Inquiry and its redacted pages" (134)

"The evidence showed that some of the hijackers had been here unlawfully, and had not obeyed immigration laws in the United States. Two of the surviving passports had been doctored, and the other two had what our staff referred to as ’suspicious indicators.’ Three hijackers had made false statements on visa applications that could have been detected—for instance, saying they had not previously applied for a U.S. visa when they had. Five hijackers had entered the United States more than once, and three of those five had violated immigration laws that could have led to their being barred from reentry, for instance, by entering the United States on a tourist visa and then enrolling in a flight school…. In total, at least six of the nineteen hijackers had violated immigration laws while in the United States" (136)

"The hijackers were nineteen for twenty in getting into the country; they were nineteen for nineteen in getting onto the four flights with lethal knives, box cutters, and—in some cases—probably Mace or pepper spray (which were banned items)" (138)

"Speaker Dennis Hastert continued his staunch opposition to any extension for the commission" (148)

"Then, on March 30, the White House surprised us by offering to have both President Bush and Vice-President Cheney meet with the full commission…. Another condition was that there could not be a recording or transcript of the meeting…. We were permitted one staff member—Philip Zelikow, our staff director—to attend as a note taker, and commissioners also took notes" (206-207)

"The point is terrorists exist in a shadowy world; contacts are made under ambiguous circumstances, for ambiguous reasons" (250)

"Throughout the course of our inquiry, the topic that invited the most skepticism—and thus the most conspiracy theorizing—was the performance of the FAA and NORAD on the day of September 11, 2001" (256)

"Fog of war could explain why some people were confused on the day of 9/11, but it could not explain why all of the after-action reports, accident investigations, and public testimony by FAA and NORAD officials advanced an account of 9/11 that was untrue" (261)

"General Myers asserted that the chain of command was in place, though there were gaps when Secretary Rumsfeld was in the Pentagon’s parking lot, and since the president was sometimes out of reach" (265)

"At the outset of our work, Philip Zelikow and Ernest May prepared an outline along these lines, and they presented it to the two of us in July 2003…. [May] and Zelikow had collaborated on books in the past and had a strong mutual regard…. His primary role was advising Zelikow and occasionally weighing in on debates within the staff" (270)

"…Zelikow had an overarching vision for how the report should flow…. Ultimately, the responsibility for final staff edits of the respective chapters was divided up among Zelikow, Kojm, and Marcus" (273)

The following quotations are from Ernest R. May, "When government writes history," The New Republic, May 16, 2005.

"To some extent, the concept of the report as a narrative history influenced the recruitment of staff. Here were many other constraints. The urgent reporting deadline made it advantageous if a potential member of the staff already had high-level security clearances. (Zelikow had them as a member of the President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board. I had them as a member of the Intelligence Science Board.) That meant preference for people who could be detailed from national security agencies or who had been on the staff of one of the congressional intelligence oversight committees. Of the fifty-odd men and women who counted as professional rather than administrative staff, at least half had such backgrounds."

"And no language appeared anywhere in the final text unless Zelikow or I or both of us—and all the commissioners—had accepted it."

"A reader of the commission report should bear in mind that its documentary base was extraordinarily deep but also extraordinarily narrow"

"We never had full confidence in the interrogation reports as historical sources…. I think the commission could have successfully challenged the CIA on both access to detainees and release of names, but it chose not to fight these battles."

"Third, and most troubling to me, the report is probably too balanced. Its harshest criticism is directed at institutions and procedures, particularly the CIA, the FBI, and communications links within the counterterrorist community. But many of the staff had worked in these or other national security agencies. They felt loyal to them and some of them expected to return to work there. Collective drafting led to the introduction of passages that offset criticism of an agency with words of praise. Not all these words were deserved."

News Links
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Boxy June 24, 2008, 08:41:17 AM
Good Luck Lox..

Your not exactly reaching a large audience with this stuff, and most people are too wrapped up and self involved to question things.

So your gonna need it..

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx July 16, 2008, 01:35:48 AM
Confirmed: ISI General Ahmed Met With JCS, Neocons Before 9/11

George Washington’s Blog
July 15, 2008
In response to a Freedom of Information Act Request submitted by Kevin Ryan, Mick Harrison and Paul Smith, the government has disclosed documents confirming that Pakistani ISI General Ahmed - the guy who wired $100,000 to lead hijacker Atta — met with a "Senior Representative from the Joint Chiefs of Staff", Centcom Commander General Tommy Franks, the Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, Wolfowitz, Feith, other PNAC members, and probably Intelligence Committee members Graham and Goss, and others in the week before 9/11.

All credit goes to Kevin, Mick and Paul. I’m just reporting on their efforts.


News Links
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 04, 2008, 12:02:14 PM
Video: Military Coverup of Deadly Vaccinations

August 4, 2008
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 05, 2008, 12:42:08 PM
Law Professor: Counter Terrorism Czar Told Me There Is Going To Be An i-9/11 And An i-Patriot Act

Steve Watson
Tuesday, August 5, 2008

Amazing revelations have emerged concerning already existing government plans to overhaul the way the internet functions in order to apply much greater restrictions and control over the web.

Lawrence Lessig, a respected Law Professor from Stanford University told an audience at this years Fortune’s Brainstorm Tech conference in Half Moon Bay, California, that “There’s going to be an i-9/11 event” which will act as a catalyst for a radical reworking of the law pertaining to the internet.

Lessig also revealed that he had learned, during a dinner with former government Counter Terrorism Czar Richard Clarke, that there is already in existence a cyber equivalent of the Patriot Act, an “i-Patriot Act” if you will, and that the Justice Department is waiting for a cyber terrorism event in order to implement its provisions.

During a group panel segment titled “2018: Life on the Net”, Lessig stated:

    There’s going to be an i-9/11 event. Which doesn’t necessarily mean an Al Qaeda attack, it means an event where the instability or the insecurity of the internet becomes manifest during a malicious event which then inspires the government into a response. You’ve got to remember that after 9/11 the government drew up the Patriot Act within 20 days and it was passed.

    The Patriot Act is huge and I remember someone asking a Justice Department official how did they write such a large statute so quickly, and of course the answer was that it has been sitting in the drawers of the Justice Department for the last 20 years waiting for the event where they would pull it out.

    Of course, the Patriot Act is filled with all sorts of insanity about changing the way civil rights are protected, or not protected in this instance. So I was having dinner with Richard Clarke and I asked him if there is an equivalent, is there an i-Patriot Act just sitting waiting for some substantial event as an excuse to radically change the way the internet works. He said “of course there is”.

Watch Lessig reveal the details at 4.30 into the following video:

Lessig is the founder of Stanford Law School’s Center for Internet and Society. He is founding board member of Creative Commons and is a board member of the Electronic Frontier Foundation and of the Software Freedom Law Center. He is best known as a proponent of reduced legal restrictions on copyright, trademark and radio frequency spectrum, particularly in technology applications.

These are clearly not the ravings of some paranoid cyber geek.

he Patriot Act, as well as its lesser known follow up the Domestic Security Enhancement Act 2003, also known as USA Patriot Act II, have been universally decried by civil libertarians and Constitutional scholars from across the political spectrum. They have stripped back basic rights and handed what have been described by even the most moderate critics as “dictatorial control” over to the president and the federal government.

Many believed that the legislation was a response to the attacks of 9/11, but the reality was that the Patriot Act was prepared way in advance of 9/11 and it sat dormant, awaiting an event to justify its implementation.

In the days after the attacks it was passed in the House by a majority of 357 to 66. It passed the Senate by 98 to 1. Congressman Ron Paul (R-Tex) told the Washington Times that no member of Congress was even allowed to read the legislation.

Now we discover that exactly the same freedom restricting legislation has already been prepared for the cyber world.

An i-9/11, as described by Lawrence Lessig, would provide the perfect pretext to implement such restrictions in one swift motion, as well as provide the justification for relegating and eliminating specific content and information on the web.


Such an event could come in the form of a major viral attack, the hacking of a major city’s security or transport systems, or some other vital systems, or a combination of all of these things. Considering the amount of unanswered questions regarding 9/11 and all the indications that it was a covert false flag operation, it isn’t hard to imagine such an event being played out in the cyber world.

However, regardless of any i-9/11 or i-Patriot Act, there is already a coordinated effort to stem the reach and influence of the internet.

We have tirelessly warned of this general movement to restrict, censor, control and eventually completely shut down the internet as we know it, thereby killing the last real vestige of free speech in the world today and eliminating the greatest communication and information tool ever conceived.

Our governments have reams of legislation penned to put clamps on the web as we know it. Legislation such as the PRO-IP Act of 2007: H.R. 4279, that would create an IP czar at the Department of Justice and the Intellectual Property Enforcement Act of 2007: S. 522, which would create an entire ‘Intellectual Property Enforcement Network’. These are just two examples.

In addition, we have already seen how the major corporate websites and social networks are decentralizing and coming together to implement overarching identification, verification and access systems that have been described by Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg as “the beginning of a movement and the beginning of an industry.”

Some of these major tech companies have already joined efforts in projects such as the Information Card Foundation, which has proposed the creation of a system of internet ID cards that will be required for internet access. Of course, such a system would give those involved the ability to track and control user activity much more effectively. This is just one example.

In addition, as we reported yesterday, major transportation hubs like St. Pancras International, as well as libraries, big businesses, hospitals and other public outlets that offer wi-fi Internet, are blacklisting alternative news websites and making them completely inaccessible to their users.

These precedents are merely the first indication of what is planned for the Internet over the next 5-10 years, with the traditional web becoming little more than a vast spy database that catalogues people’s every activity and bombards them with commercials, while those who comply with centralized control and regulation of content will be free to enjoy the new super-fast Internet 2.

We must speak out about this rampant move to implement strict control mechanisms on the web NOW before it is too late, before the spine of the free internet is broken and its body essentially becomes paralyzed beyond repair.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 19, 2008, 10:32:02 AM
 Blockades: Acts of War

Stephen Lendman
Global Research
August 18, 2008

From July 21 - 31, Joint Task Force (mostly US, but also UK, France, Brazil and Italy) "Operation Brimstone" large scale war games were conducted off the US East coast in the North Atlantic. Its purpose may have been to prepare for a naval blockade of Iran. From what’s known a naval deployment may be planned, and a blockade may ensue. The situation remains tense and worrisome.

Under international and US law, blockades are acts of war and variously defined as:

– surrounding a nation or objective with hostile forces;

– measures to isolate an enemy;

– encirclement and besieging;

– preventing the passage in or out of supplies, military forces or aid in time of or as an act of war; and

– an act of naval warfare to block access to an enemy’s coastline and deny entry to all vessels and aircraft.

In 2009, it’s believed that the International Criminal Court in the Hague will include blockades against coasts and ports as acts of war.

International law expert Professor Francis Boyle is very outspoken on this topic as well as on others of equal importance. He defines blockades under international and US law as:

    – "belligerent measures taken by a nation (to) prevent passage of vessels or aircraft to and from another country. Customary international law recognizes blockades as an act of war because of the belligerent use of force even against third party nations in enforcing the blockade. Blockades as acts of war have been recognized as such in the Declaration of Paris of 1856 and the Declaration of London of 1909 that delineate the international rules of warfare."

America approved these Declarations, so they’re binding US law as well "as part of general international law and customary international law." Past US presidents, including Dwight Eisenhower and Jack Kennedy, called blockades acts of war. So has the US Supreme Court.

In Bas v. Tingy (1800), the High Court addressed the constitutionality of fighting an undeclared war. Boyle explained that it ruled that "the seizure of a French vessel (is) an act of hostility or reprisal requiring Congressional approval….The Court held that Congress pursuant to Constitutional war powers had authorized hostilities on the high seas under certain circumstances." The Court cited Talbot v. Seaman (1801) in ruling that "specific legislative authority was required in the seizure…."

In Little v. Barreme (1804), the Court held that "even an order from the President could not justify or excuse an act that violated the laws and customs of warfare. Chief Justice John Marshall wrote that a captain of a United States warship could be held personally liable in trespass for wrongfully seizing a neutral Danish ship, even though" presidential authority ordered it. Only Congress has that power. "The Court’s position seems consistent with a typical trespass case, where defendants are liable even when they have a reasonable, good faith (but mistaken) belief in authority to enter on the plaintiff’s land."

Boyle cites "The Prize Cases" (1863) as the most definitive Supreme Court ruling on blockades requiring congressional authorization. The case involved President Lincoln’s ordering "a blockade of coastal states that had joined the Confederacy at the outset of the Civil War. The Court….explicitly (ruled) that a blockade is an act of war and is legal only if properly authorized under the Constitution." It stated:

    "The power of declaring war is the highest sovereign power, and is limited to the representative of the full sovereignty of the nation. It is limited in the United States to its Congress exclusively; and the authority of the President to be the Commander-in-Chief….to take that the law be faithfully executed, is to be taken in connection with the exclusive power given to Congress to declare war, and does not enable the President to (do it) or to introduce, without Act of Congress, War or any of its legal disabilities or liabilities, on any citizen of the United States."

Article I of the Constitution pertains to powers "vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives." Section 8 relates to powers "to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and welfare of the United States…." Two Section 8 clauses relate to this article.

– clause 14: to "make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;" and most importantly

– clause 11: "to declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning capture on land and water."

The framers believed that no single official, including the President, should ever have sole authority over this most crucial of all constitutional powers because of how easily it can be abused as post-WW II history shows. In 1793, James Madison wrote that the "fundamental doctrine of the Constitution….to declare war is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature." During the 1787 Constitutional Convention, George Mason said that the President "is not safely to be trusted with" the power to declare war. Nonetheless, Congress only observed its responsibility five times in the nation’s history, lastly on December 8, 1941 following Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor the previous day.

All treaties to which America is a signatory, including the UN Charter, are binding US law. Its Chapter VII authorizes only the Security Council to "determine the existence of any threat to the peace, or act of aggression (and, if necessary, take military or other actions to) restore international peace and stability." It permits a nation to use force (including blockades) only under two conditions: when authorized by the Security Council or under Article 51 allowing the "right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a Member….until the Security Council has taken measures to maintain international peace and security."

Iran poses no threat to the US, its neighbors, or any other nations, including Israel. Imposing a blockade against it violates the UN Charter and other international and US law. It will constitute an illegal act of aggression that under the Nuremberg Charter is the "supreme international crime" above all others. It will make the Bush administration, every supportive congressional member, and governments of other participating nations criminally liable.

Two more events further up the stakes. On April 3, in spite of strong public opposition, the Czech Republic agreed to the installation of US "advanced tracking missile defense radar" by 2012. On July 9, a Russian Foreign Ministry statement responded: "We will be forced to react not with diplomatic, but with military-technical methods."

Then on August 14, Poland defied its own people and most Europeans by agreeing to allow offensive "interceptor missiles" on its soil. Legislatures of both countries must approve it, but that will likely follow. Deployment is reckless and indefensible and will head the world closer to serious confrontation.

For two countries wracked by prior wars, these actions are irresponsible and foolhardy. They further heighten tensions and assure a new Cold War arms race or much worse. Russia’s deputy military chief of staff, General Anatoly Nogovitsyn, stated: Poland is "exposing itself to a strike, 100%." Russian President Dmitri Medvedev said: "The deployment (aims at) the Russian Federation." Even Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk showed fear by his comment that "We have crossed the Rubicon." Yet he did it anyway. Where this is heading remains to be seen, but the signs are deeply worrisome.

So is the possibility that Washington will blockade or attack Iran before year end. Things won’t likely crystallize before Congress reconvenes in September after both parties hold their nominating conventions.

Hopefully a wider Middle East war will be avoided because of what might follow. What Barbara Tuchman recounted in her 1962 book, "The Guns of August," on how WW I war began and its early weeks. Once started, things spun out of control with cataclysmic consequences. Before it ended, over 20 million died, at least that many more were wounded, and a generation of young men was erased.

Igniting another world conflict should give everyone pause. Especially given the destructive power of today’s weapons and the Bush administration’s design for "full spectrum dominance" and stated unilateral right to achieve it with first-strike nuclear weapons. Avoiding that possibility is the top priority of every world leader. It’s unclear if any are up to the challenge.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx September 02, 2008, 05:59:09 AM
Russia: U.S. Delivered Weapons to Georgia Under Cover of Humanitarian Aid

Associated Press
September 2, 2008

Russia warned the West on Monday against supporting Georgia’s leadership, suggesting that the United States carried weapons as well as aid to the ex-Soviet republic and calling for an arms embargo until the Georgian government falls.

The remarks by Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and his spokesman came as European Union leaders delicately approached their relations with Russia, weighing how to punish Moscow for its invasion of Georgia without isolating the continent’s major energy supplier.

The latest Russian rhetoric was likely to anger the United States and Europe and enrage Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili, who has said Russia’s goal all along has been to remove him from power.

“If instead of choosing their national interests and the interests of the Georgian people, the United States and its allies choose the Saakashvili regime, this will be a mistake of truly historic proportions,” Lavrov said.

At the EU emergency summit talks, leader debated a draft statement condemning Russia for putting relations with the EU “at a crossroads” and urging it “not to isolate” itself from Europe.

It called Russia’s invasion of Georgia unacceptable and said the EU is ready to bolster ties with Georgia. There was, however, no mention of sanctions against Russia or of sending EU soldiers to Georgia.

News Link

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx September 07, 2008, 04:47:55 AM
Confirmed: Mexico drug plane used for CIA ‘rendition’ flights

September 6, 2008

A private jet that crash-landed almost one year ago in eastern Mexico carrying 3.3 tons of cocaine had previously been used for CIA “rendition” flights, a newspaper report said here Thursday, citing documents from the United States and the European Parliament.

The plane was carrying Colombian drugs for the fugitive leader of Mexico’s Sinaloa cartel, Joaquin “Chapo” Guzman, when it crash-landed in the Yucatan peninsula on September 24, El Universal reported.

The daily said it had obtained documents from the United States and the European Parliament which “show that that plane flew several times to Guantanamo, Cuba, presumably to transfer terrorism suspects.”

It said the European Parliament was investigating the private Grumman Gulfstream II, registered by the European Organization for the Safety of Air Navigation, for suspected use in CIA “rendition” flights in which prisoners are covertly transferred to a third country or US-run detention centers.

News Link
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD September 07, 2008, 12:24:52 PM
So I am watching Nova on PBS this morning and the show is about the World trade center collapse and the structural failures that allowed it all to happen.

I find it ironic that they talk about the jet engines being a large mass of steel that ripped through the floor trusses,these are the same engines that didn't make even one mark on the outside of the Pentagon when the plane hit that building leaving a 16 foot hole in the side.

why would the engines do so much damage in one case but none in the other?

the more they try to "explain' the more they show how stupid the conclusions are.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx September 07, 2008, 10:53:01 PM
haha becuz they think we are all like cerb.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 September 08, 2008, 11:50:43 AM
I am looking at this situation wrong?

Fannie May and Freddie Mac both made billions during the housing boom. Also, I agree the bursting bubble isn't totally their fault. Here is my question?
They fucked up their businesses with some shady lending practices. It has cost Americans a lot in home equity. Now they are getting a government bailout. So, I have to pay the person who messed up my home equity with my tax dollars? Ron Paul's idea was to let them go out of business. The economy would be rough for a few years but the turnaround would be quick and we would all be better off in the long run.

Also, if you want to play conspiracy. They mess up the economy and then the investors can buy up these bundled foreclosures for cheap. Let's face, the housing crunch is going to turn around, and land will always have value.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD September 08, 2008, 08:07:26 PM
the freddie mac bail out is to protect rich stock holders in those companies,it has zero to do with ppl that actually losing their houses,this is from a political party that is all about change but they sure will jump on the nationalization of investment funds and big banks,it kills me that ppl don't see this for what it actually is.

I watched a 4 day infomerical last week about how the democrats are for big government and the republicans are for every day americans, the whole time the bush white house is planning on printing up another 200 billion in make beleive money to bail out campaign contributors that got greedy and made shitting investment decisions.

I would love to hear the governor form Alaska explain this to everyone.

Hell,I'm pretty damn sure McCain doesn't even understand it.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx September 09, 2008, 03:25:06 AM
Top Investor: Fannie/Freddie Bailout Serves “Bunch Of Crooks And Incompetents”

Rogers says move indicates U.S. is “more Communist than China”

Steve Watson
Monday, Sept 8, 2008

A leading investor has denounced the government seizure of two of the nation’s largest financial companies as “madness” and says the move will only serve to make the markets more volatile and see house prices continue to go down.

In an interview with CNBC Jim Rogers, CEO of Rogers Holdings, described the move by the Treasury to nationalize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as “insanity”.

The Treasury has pledged to provide as much as $200 billion to the companies, replace their chief executives and place them under a conservatorship, giving management control to their regulator, the Federal Housing Finance Agency, or FHFA.

“This is madness, this is insanity,” Rogers said, “they have more than doubled the American national debt in one weekend for a bunch of crooks and incompetents. I’m not quite sure why I or anybody else should be paying for this.”

“America is more communist than China is right now,” Rogers declared. “You can see that this is welfare of the rich, it is socialism for the rich… it’s just bailing out financial institutions,” he added.

Rogers and other critics alike are concerned that American taxpayers, already facing the worst housing bust since the 1930s, will now be saddled with billions of dollars in losses from home loans made by the private sector, radically changing the nature of the crisis. Government officials have justified the move by stating that that the cost of doing nothing would be far greater.

“You’re certainly gonna see a huge jump in any financial institutions which owned a lot of Fannie or Freddie… because they don’t have to worry about going bankrupt all of a sudden,” Rogers said.

“Bank stocks around the world are going through the roof, that’s ’cause they’ve all been bailed out. You don’t see the homeowners in Kansas going through the roof ’cause they’re not being bailed out,” he added.

Other investors have criticized the takeover as a “stopgap” and a “band aid” aimed at keeping the companies going into 2009, leaving the next president and Congress to deal with the fallout.

Jim Rogers commented that neither of the presidential candidates has a solution to the crisis.

“This is a big huge mess and neither one of them has a clue what to do next year. It’s going to be a mess.” Rogers said.

Watch the interview with Jim Rogers:
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 September 09, 2008, 09:19:20 AM
I can't even imagine what the housing market is like in Vegas. I am sue Sarge could write a book on the topic.

We recently moved in December and have yet to sell our other home. We keep lowering the price and nobody is still interested.
People are moving to our suburb less because of the commuting cost.
What is really killing the area for home sellers is the bailing builders. In an attempt to recoup losses they are selling homes at their cost. To make some money on the home their "cost price" includes up to $50k builders credit. So if you buy their home, you have to pay them this money to go in and do further work; painting, finishing basements, etc. So, they are making a profit by the labor and materials from this builders credit. Also, they are screwing the people by charging way more than fair market price for any services done using this builders credit.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 September 09, 2008, 09:23:27 AM

mainstream Yahoo news on the mess
They agree, this is at taxpayers expense, and it could get a lot worse.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD September 09, 2008, 12:55:56 PM
So I have been watching a little of all the crap on the History channel and Discovery about 9/11.

this show comes on about the Pentagon and there is a fire fighter talking about how bad the fires were,this guy is a 28 year veteran firefighter.

He starts talking about the damage inside the Pentagon and how hard it was to move around inside the building, he states that inside the building it was a mass of fallen wires,plumbing,concrete and steel,that it looked like a war zone.

what I found revealing is that in his 2 minute statement of everything he saw and had to deal with he never once mentioned anything about plane parts,no seats,structural members,engine parts and the most important thing of all,if it was so shocking I am pretty damn sure he would have seen body parts and yet not one mention of it.

on another note,why are these channels running so many shows about the Kennedy asassination,I love how they try to tie two"crazy" conspiracies together.

I love how these 9/11 shows always pull some family members of the dead in to interview about the conspiracies,they always run them in the last segement of the shows and it is always ppl that are so sure that the govt is telling the truth and to question any of it is anti american.they get these ppl all worked up so they start crying then let them rant about how ppl that don't believe the govt are just doing it to make the victims lives hell.

and since when did Popular Science become the big expert debunker of all conspiracy theories?

they put these ppl on these shows and run a title under their names during the interviews but who knows who these ppl are,I listen to the Stern show and know how easliy ppl can be duped into letting phoney experts on TV's,I see these ppl and think of Capt. Jenks every time.

On the Oswald stuff they always run,it still amazes me that experts trying to blame Cuba talk about how intense the Cold war was at the time yet we are supposed to believe that Oswald could defect to Russia while still in the military, stationed at a base where the U2 flights over russia originated,two weeks after he defects Gary Powers is shot down in the first U2 flight ever shot down,which derails the peace talks Eisenhower was going to attend in Russia to slow down the Cold War and then Oswald is allowed to return to the USA and is never prosecuted for treason.

remember this is during the time in this country when ppl were building bomb shelters in their back yards and to be branded a communist sympathizer was the worst thing that could happen to you.

The trouble these debunkers get into is always the details, you have to ignore the main story and look for the inconsistencies in the details, they are always there all you have to do is notice them.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: flypaper September 09, 2008, 05:01:35 PM
I think theres more to this 9/11 bullshit then meets the eye but if it was a controlled explosion, I'd like to know how they hell  they planted the bombs. you watch these demolition shows and you wonder how anyone could sneak in and plant all that shit with nobody noticing. I guess it would be possible if you did it over a long period of time and you planted it at night or in the restricted areas in the guts of the building where your average worker would never wander into
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD September 09, 2008, 05:19:09 PM
it does not take bombs to cut the beams to make them fail, you use a thermite cord,all you have to do it wrap it around the beam and set off the cap, the thermite will burn through anything it comes in contact with.

I was a welders helper for the Union Pacific railroad and we used thermite to weld the ends of continuous welded rail together, the rails came in quater mile sections and we had to field weld the sections together to make it continuous.

the thermite would liquify the ends of the rail in seconds,it was the goddamnedest thing I ever saw and that was back in the early 80's,I can only imagine what has been developed since then.

you could easily cause a collapse using thermite,you only need to get to the exterior of the beams to place it,no need to knock off fire proofing because the thermite burns at thousands of degrees.

there are quite a few reports of odd crews of workers being in the towers in the weeks before 9/11 and even reports of the maintainence crews being told not to show up for work the weekend before the collapse.

I remember seeing a beam sticking out of the rubble pile with a perfect 45 degree cut with melted steel on the cut end, that is exactly what you would see if thermite was used.

don't think of old school bombs like the dynamite they use in building demo,there are much more effective ways to make this happen.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx September 10, 2008, 01:56:43 AM
Fucking dead on sarge

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD September 10, 2008, 10:33:46 AM
I have seen that picture and others like it,it clearly shows liquifaction of the steel,which is impossible to do with any kind of fuel fire

a torch cut would not be so friggin perfect.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 September 10, 2008, 12:09:41 PM
Since I am a ME, I think of these things a little different. I have seen some plausible explanations of the Twin Towers collapses. Some of the minor stuff can be explained away with chaos in the system. Also, further investigation was needed to completely explain all the issues. All I see is a picture of a cut beam possibly out of context. Did that picture even come from the Towers?

What I haven't seen is a reasonable explanation of Building 7. Also, this was so skirted in the news. Fire and debris are the only things they blame on that collapse. Which, debris could have caused a building collapse, but not where it hit the building.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD September 10, 2008, 02:04:29 PM
there is no reason to cut that beam at the angle shown if it was done by the clean up crew,you would run a cable around the beam take up the slack with a crane and cut the beam,you would not angle the cut, you would cut it square so if it slipped it would sit on the square cut not slide off the base and kill ppl working in the area.

there are pictures of beams with these cuts sticking out of the pile that was left after the collapse,no one in a big hurry to dig ppl out are going to take the time to make these angle cuts,if you are in a hurry you make the fastest cut you can, which would be a square cut because you have to cut less steel to make a square cut which makes the cut time shorter.

the answer to all this was in the waste pile hauled off but good luck counting up how many beams had these cuts,they couldn't ship the steel off fast enough,it was almost like someone was trying to destroy any evidence as soon as possible.

you would think that in the largest murder case in US history they would have kept the evidence around for a little while to answer any questions that came up.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD September 10, 2008, 02:13:22 PM

hit that link, it came up with a google search of thermite.

Ignore the eyewitness reports and just look at the thermal shots of the site itself.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 September 10, 2008, 04:30:42 PM
The one anomaly I would like explained was the sizematic activity there that day. It was much more energy than a building collapse and there was a lot of it before the collapse. It has since disappeared off of public web pages that log that stuff.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD September 10, 2008, 05:33:16 PM
I just watched Fabled Enemies on the web,this movie stunned me and then I went upstairs to talk to someone about it and I got friggin goose bumps.

Is anyone shocked that the BBC World Report was reporting that WTC 7 collapsed 20 minutes before it happened?

the thing that is even stranger is that they went live to a reporter that reports about the collapse and you can clearly see the building standing in the background of her shot.

the rest of the 102 minute documentary is full of actual news reports that ppl didn't pay attention to over the last 8 to 10 years,when you see them all collated in a manner that gives them a time line and background it blows your mind.

this movie is much better than Loose Change because it lets the press tell the story.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: MrMaroon5 September 10, 2008, 07:34:38 PM
Here is another one that was all over the internet when I was at work that day and has now disappeared. No one even states that it was a mistake, it just disappeared.

There were news reports that on the day of 911 that the white house was on fire and there had been bombings there. Where is any hint of that now?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD September 10, 2008, 07:38:33 PM
this is the movie that disappeared,it was number two the first day it was posted,number one the next day and on day 3 it had disappeared.

you can still google it tho.

here is the link
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: flypaper September 10, 2008, 11:57:25 PM
good video sarge. makes you anxious about what else may transpire in the not so distant future

maybe an "emergency" before the elections ?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD September 11, 2008, 10:13:25 PM
there is a problem in that documentary i linked and it is also in Loose Change.

they make a point of showing WTC 7 and there is no damage to the south side of the building and they make a point of referencing it in both films.

I just watched a real time documentary on the History Channel,the show was a minute by minute time line of that morning and the 102 minutes it took between the first plane and the both buildings falling.

they show the film shot that the clip of WTC 7 is cut from and you can clearly hear both the guy that is filmed running into the building the man he meets at the top of the stairs talk about the one building that just fell and how everyone in the building 7 has evacuated.

the clip used was clearly shot before the north tower collapses but that is not said in either Fabled Enemies or Loose Change,in those films it is made out that the clip was filmed after both collapses.

it really doesn't change what I think after seeing Fabled Enemies but I do watch these 9/11 documentaries with a sharp eye to detail and that is what everyone should do.

do not let anyone tell you what to or not to believe, use your fucking head to figure out what you believe for yourself.

one of the saddest damn things I saw tonite was 3 minutes before the WTC 2(south tower)collapse you can hear the fire fighters on the radios on 72nd floor talking about if they get some water on the two fires they can knock it down and the fire crews in the stairs below them telling them that they will be right there and have the hoses to do the job.

those brave guys all die 3 minutes later,it broke my heart again all these years later.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]Ree4 September 11, 2008, 10:29:26 PM
Any 9/11 video is always hard to watch, and always will be
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD September 11, 2008, 10:35:42 PM
and then I find this crap,not on the same topic

this Bush White House is like Romper Room.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx September 15, 2008, 12:51:26 AM
The little known “false flag” attack to make a killing on the speculation market

Wayne Madsen
Online Journal
September 14, 2008

Prior to the 9/11 attacks, insider trading "put options” were placed on United and American Airlines stocks. The speculative options on United were placed between September 6 and 7, 2001 and on American on September 10 at the Chicago Board of Options Exchange.


Put options are bets that a stock will fall in value and the owner has the option of buing the stock at a lower rate and sell them at the highest rate, thus earning a quick windfall profit. The put options on the two airlines’ stock was reportedly six times higher than normal. Other unusual "put option" activity was registered with three European reinsurance firms, Germany Re, Swiss Re, AXA of France, in addition to World Trade Center occupant Morgan Stanley Dean Witter.

There was a previous attempt to use a "false flag" terrorist attack to manipulate international markets to earn a quick profit. According to The Washington Post, two individuals, Jay Aubrey Elliott and Rolf Dunbier, were once arrested in New York for planning to blow up the Kafue River bridge in Zambia, the only bridge servicing Zambia’s Copperbelt Province. At the same time, Violet Elliott, Elliott’s wife; Efraim Ronen, Benjamin Edoui, Yitzhak Markovitch, and Raphael Tseriano were arrested in Tel Aviv by Israeli police after the Shin Bet, Israel’s security service, and the FBI discovered the plan to blow up the Zambian bridge in order to drive up the world’s copper prices. Jay Elliott had earlier visited Tel Aviv to sign up explosive experts to blow up the Zambian bridge. Law enforcement authorities in Zambia and the United States were tipped off about the plan.

Jay Elliott and Dunbier were charged with violating the federal Neutrality Act, which forbids American citizens and foreigners in the United States from waging war against nations with which the United States is at peace. The act has been used only rarely by the federal government, having in the past charged U.S. citizens and nationals with conspiring to commit acts of war against Haiti and Laos. No action was taken against right-wing conspirators who used U.S. soil to plan and carry out military action against Cuba and Nicaragua.

Although the conspiracy by Israeli and American nationals against Zambia’s railway bridge appear to have come from recent headlines, the story was published in The Washington Post on November 9, 1966.

The Mossad was never officially implicated in the planned attack on Zambia but the Israeli intelligence agency conducted a number of "false flag" attacks before and after 1966.

In 1954, Israeli Defense Minister Pinhas Lavon secretly organized a terrorist attack on the U.S. Information Service library in Cairo, Egypt, that would be conducted so the Americans would blame the Egyptian government of Gamal Abdel Nasser. In November 1968, King Hussein of Jordan discovered that Israel was behind the Kateb al Nasr commando group that attacked the U.S. embassy in Amman with the deaths of 29 civilians and security personnel. Israel was hoping to cause the United States to blame Jordan for the attack.

Ilich Ramirez Sanchez, also known as "Carlos the Jackal," maintained that it was the Mossad that killed two French police agents and a Lebanese informant in 1975. The two policemen, Raymond Dous and Jean Donatini, and the Lebanese informant, Michel Moukharbal, were investigating a terrorist attack on El Al Airlines at Orly Airport. "Carlos" said Mossad was trying to frame him for the murders.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Xplicit September 18, 2008, 11:01:27 AM
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD September 19, 2008, 01:39:47 PM
its a long read but this article shows you exactly what a piece of shit McCain really is,I used to respect the guy but after seeing him lie every damn day about shit that doesn't make any sense and then reading this makes me sick.

he is not the hero they all want you to believe

this story is well documented and footnoted written by a guy that has been a reporter for 50 years

this link is the actual story, the link above is the story with all documents mentioned attached

they threw away over 700 POW's after the end of Viet Nam and then did everything they could to make it all disappear and McCain was a driving force in it all.

truly pathetic

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx September 21, 2008, 05:59:53 AM
Flashback: Cheney Bet On Economic Collapse

Mike Whitney
Information Clearing House
September 20, 2008

Editor’s note: Mike Whitney wrote this article on the 4th of July, 2006. Cheney’s portfolio is simply more evidence that the current economic crisis was manufactured in advance. Darth Cheney is either clairvoyant or somebody tipped him off.

Wouldn’t you like to know where Dick Cheney puts his money? Then you’d know whether his “deficits don’t matter” claim is just baloney or not.

Well, as it turns out, Kiplinger Magazine ran an article based on Cheney’s financial disclosure statement and, sure enough, found out that the VP is lying to the American people for the umpteenth time. Deficits do matter and Cheney has invested his money accordingly.

The article is called “Cheney’s betting on bad news” and provides an account of where Cheney has socked away more than $25 million. While the figures may be estimates, the investments are not. According to Tom Blackburn of the Palm Beach Post, Cheney has invested heavily in “a fund that specializes in short-term municipal bonds, a tax-exempt money market fund and an inflation protected securities fund. The first two hold up if interest rates rise with inflation. The third is protected against inflation.”

Cheney has dumped another (estimated) $10 to $25 million in a European bond fund which tells us that he is counting on a steadily weakening dollar. So, while working class Americans are loosing ground to inflation and rising energy costs, Darth Cheney will be enhancing his wealth in “Old Europe”. As Blackburn sagely notes, “Not all ‘bad news’ is bad for everybody.”

This should put to rest once and for all the foolish notion that the “Bush Economic Plan” is anything more than a scam aimed at looting the public till. The whole deal is intended to shift the nation’s wealth from one class to another. It’s also clear that Bush-Cheney couldn’t have carried this off without the tacit approval of the thieves at the Federal Reserve who engineered the low-interest rate boondoggle to put the American people to sleep while they picked their pockets.

Reasonable people can dispute that Bush is “intentionally” skewering the dollar with his lavish tax cuts, but how does that explain Cheney’s portfolio?

It doesn’t. And, one thing we can say with metaphysical certainty is that the miserly Cheney would never plunk his money into an investment that wasn’t a sure thing. If Cheney is counting on the dollar tanking and interest rates going up, then, by Gawd, that’s what’ll happen.

The Bush-Cheney team has racked up another $3 trillion in debt in just 6 years. The US national debt now stands at $8.4 trillion dollars while the trade deficit has ballooned to $800 billion nearly 7% of GDP.

This is lunacy. No country, however powerful, can maintain these staggering numbers. The country is in hock up to its neck and has to borrow $2.5 billion per day just to stay above water. Presently, the Fed is expanding the money supply and buying back its own treasuries to hide the hemorrhaging from the public. Its utter madness.

Last month the trade deficit climbed to $70 billion. More importantly, foreign central banks only purchased a meager $47 billion in treasuries to shore up our ravenous appetite for cheap junk from China.

Do the math! They’re not investing in America anymore. They are decreasing their stockpiles of dollars. We’re sinking fast and Cheney and his pals are manning the lifeboats while the public is diverted with gay marriage amendments and “American Celebrity”.

The American manufacturing sector has been hollowed out by cutthroat corporations who’ve abandoned their country to make a fast-buck in China or Mexico. The $3 trillion housing (equity) bubble is quickly loosing air while the anemic dollar continues to sag. All the signs indicate that the economy is slowing at the same time that energy prices continue to rise.

This is the onset of stagflation; the dreaded combo of a slowing economy and inflation.

Did Americans really think they’d be spared the same type of economic colonization that has been applied throughout the developing world under the rubric of “neoliberalism”?

Well, think again. The American economy is barrel-rolling towards earth and there are only enough parachutes for Cheney and the gang.

The country has lost 3 million jobs from outsourcing since Bush took office; more than 200,000 of those are the high-paying, high-tech jobs that are the life’s-blood of every economy.

Consider this from the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) June edition of Foreign Affairs, the Bible of globalists and plutocrats:

“Between 2000 and 2003 alone, foreign firms built 60,000manufacturing plants in China. European chemical companies, Japanese carmakers, and US industrial conglomerates are all building factories in China to supply export markets around the world. Similarly, banks, insurance companies, professional-service firms, and IT companies are building R&D and service centers in India to support employees, customers, and production worldwide.” (“The Globally integrated Enterprise” Samuel Palmisano, Foreign Affairs page 130)

“60,000manufacturing plants” in 3 years?!?

“Banks, insurance companies, professional-service firms, and IT companies”?

No job is safe. American elites and corporate tycoons are loading the boats and heading for foreign shores. The only thing they’re leaving behind is the insurmountable debt that will be shackled to our children into perpetuity and the carefully arranged levers of a modern police-surveillance state.

Welcome to Bush’s 21st Century gulag; third world luxury in a Guantanamo-type setting.

Take another look at Cheney’s investment strategy; it tells the whole ugly story. Interest rates are going up, the middle class is going down, and the poor dollar is headed for the dumpster. The country is not simply teetering on the brink of financial collapse; it is being thrust headfirst by the blackguards in office and their satrapies at Federal Reserve.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx September 23, 2008, 03:17:44 AM
American Militia, Media Spin

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: flypaper September 25, 2008, 09:44:55 PM

Has anyone read that? Im not very knowledgeable on this shit, im trying to learn. If you scroll to the bottom, the guy used to work at JP Morgan. not very encouraging reading this

What do you think of it?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD September 25, 2008, 11:04:55 PM
That article is pretty much on point,I have heard and read others saying some of the same things, just not all once in one article like that.

these wall street ppl have created a monster that they can't even figure out or manage and now that it has turned to shit they want us to bail them out.

this whole country lives on credit cards and now that the bill has come due the banks that gave everyone those credit lines want tax payer money to cover their bad decisions.

if everyone just quit paying the credit card bills that show up every month there isn't shit the banks could do about it and would drive this wall street problem over the edge,which would be painful for the short term future but would save the country in the long run.

buy gold.

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx September 28, 2008, 11:08:05 PM
Rep. Burgess: Congress “under Martial Law” to pass banker bailout bill

D. H. Williams
Daily Newscaster
September 28, 2008

Rep. Michael Burgess (R-TX) reports from the floor of the House that the Republicans have been cut out of the process and called unpatriotic for not blindly supporting the fraudulent bailout. He says the only debate has been about what talking points to use on the American people. The most ominous revelation is when he claims the Speaker has declared martial law.

“I have been thrown out of more meetings in this capital in the last 24 hours than I ever thought possible, as a duly elected representative of 825,000 citizens of north Texas.” Said Congressman Burgess.

Burgess asks the Speaker of the House to post the bailout bill on the internet for at least 24 hours instead of passing the largest piece of legislation in US financial history in the “dark of night.”

The most frightening part of Rep. Burgess’ one-minute floor speech is when he says, “Mr. Speaker I understand we are under Martial Law as declared by the speaker last night.”

Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur boldly slammed the bailout bill this past weekend as the work of criminal insiders who have shut down the normal legislative process to commit “high financial crimes”.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: warning September 30, 2008, 12:04:02 AM
buy gold.

What the dollar hasn't been tied to gold since fucking Nixon and its been declining in us dollar value since 1980. People are always talking about how the ratio of gold to oil is only 9 to 1 right now and its usually double, but that don't mean its fucking going back.

Take all the bullshit out of the equation and just buy euros, because there is zero reason to think the dollar is going up in the near future.

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx September 30, 2008, 03:38:13 AM
  Ron Paul on the Failed Bailout Vote

September 29, 2008
September 29, 2008

Brian Kenny and Matt Lepacek from We Are Change confront Douglas Feith on war crimes.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx October 01, 2008, 04:53:53 AM
Cynthia McKinney Claims 5,000 Executed During Hurricane Katrina

September 30, 2008
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx October 21, 2008, 04:34:13 AM
Video: The Banker Bailout and the Federal Reserve
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx October 29, 2008, 06:20:43 AM
Nathanial Rothschild's Atticus hedge fund adds to his problems


 Mr Rothschild, who is embroiled in an explosive public row with George Osborne, the Shadow Chancellor, is co-chairman of Atticus Capital, a New York hedge fund.

Atticus has been forced to issue a frank apology to some of its wealthy investors after their investment in the fund almost halved in less than a year.

Atticus' European fund has fallen in value by 43.5 per cent during 2008, the fund manager said in a private letter to clients earlier this month.

David Slager, the Atticus executive who runs its European investments, told investors: "I regret and am intensely disappointed by this performance."

In a letter dated October 3, Mr Slager said that the European fund had lost 15.8 per cent of its value in September alone.

News Link

That is the guy whos family is stealing our money
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx October 29, 2008, 04:14:54 PM
Biden Mentions New World Order

Canadian Free Press
October 29, 2008


WARREN: “Senator… I want to start off asking the same question I did when we talked via satellite last week. We were talking about your comment that the next president would face a generated crisis that would test him. I asked ‘if you believe we are going to have a crisis, how has Obama been tested in the past to deal with it?’ You gave us a long list of mistakes you believe John McCain has made, but nothing for Senator Obama.”

Last week, this is what Biden said to my question: “Let’s start off, John McCain has never been tested either. And when they’ve both been tested and state their opinion as senator, John McCain has been wrong. Barack Obama has been right. Barack Obama warned about the mistake in Iraq. He was right. John McCain said we’d be greeted as liberators. He was wrong.”

WARREN: “So, second bite at the apple. Any specifics examples of senator Obama’s experience that prepare him to lead in a national security crisis?”

BIDEN: “Barack Obama suggested we’d be in real trouble if we went into Iraq the way we did. Barack Obama has been calling for a year and a half that we need to invest more resources in Afghanistan where the actual folks who plotted against us are still living the mountains between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Barack Obama suggested we should be negotiating with North Korea, as the Bush Administration finally did getting an agreement to do away with their nuclear facility.”

WARREN: “There were a lot of issues where he might be siding on the right issue, but what I’m wondering is any concrete examples of how he’s actually impacted policy that has affected national security?”

BIDEN: “He’s changed the entire debate on policy by leading the effort to say that we in fact should set a timeline to draw down American troops in Iraq handing over authority to the Iraqis. What’s happened? George Bush has now adopted the Barack Obama plan. You saw that prime minister Maliki the guy who heads up the government in Iraq embracing Barack’s policy.”

WARREN: “Many of the polls show that your ticket may be headed to victory in November and that the Democrats may pick up a larger number of seats in the House and perhaps win 10 seats for a filibuster proof Senate. Republicans are beginning to make the argument that that means Democratic dominance in Washington, unchecked power. Is that a good thing?”

BIDEN: “First of all, we’re no where near there. We have 8 days to go. This is the most important election in the public’s life. They are looking at these races very closely. I think this is going to be much closer than everyone thinks it is. Second, with regard to the Democratic Party,this is a new Democratic Party not the party of the 70s and 80s. This is a party that has adjusted to the realities of a new world order.” He went on to say, “I think there is going to be a collaborative effort to make the 21st century an American century.”

WARREN: “You mention that you’ll have to work with leaders on the Hill, which would include the Speaker of the House a Democrat and the Democratic Senate Majority Leader. Can you give me some specific examples where your team might differ from their agenda or are your agendas identical?”

BIDEN: “I don’t know that. It’s too early to tell. Not only are our agendas similar in how to deal with the economy, how to deal with foreign policy and taxes. It’s a view shared by a significant number of Republicans.” He went on to say, “There’s an emerging consensus that we need a new direction and it’s got to be done in a bipartisan way.”

WARREN: “Sarah Palin is making a big swing through Virginia today, stopping in salem this evening. She’s making the claim that you guys are already doing your victory lap and that Senator Obama has already written in inaugural address. Is your team a little over-confident?”

BIDEN: “Not at all. Looks when’s the last time a Democrat won Virginia for Lord’s sake? 1964. I’m in North Carolina, our 10th time here. I would not call that over confident. We think this is going to be a very difficult race. I think that the reason Governor Palin and Senator McCain are talking the way they are is because they don’t want to talk about the economy. They don’t have anything to talk about. So what are they talking about? They’re talking about attacks on Barack Obama that we’re measuring the drapes and taking victory laps. We have a long way to go before that victory lap. I think it’s going to be a very close election.”

News Link
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD October 29, 2008, 06:06:54 PM
when he says a new world order,he isn't talking about The New World Order, he is talking about how we aren't on the brink of nuclear war with the USSR,that our enemies and friends around the world have changed in the last 20-30 years.

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx October 29, 2008, 06:45:23 PM
HAHAH yeah i forgot DOESN'T EXIST!

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD October 29, 2008, 07:53:21 PM
it does exist but quit seeing it where it isn't,just because the words new ,world and order appear in a sentence doesn't mean he is talking about the ruling elite.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 04, 2008, 10:01:41 AM
Two More U.S. Military Units Assigned For Homeland Security

Paul Joseph Watson
Tuesday, November 4, 2008


Northcom has announced that two more U.S. military units will be assigned for domestic homeland security missions, bringing the total number of combat ready service members operating inside the U.S. to around 4,700, as fears grow about the increasing militarization of law enforcement.

The announcement follows the controversy surrounding a September 8 Army Times report (revised on September 30), which revealed that the 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team, fresh from combat duties in Iraq, would be operating inside America for tasks including “civil unrest and crowd control,” a detail that was later denied by Northcom despite the concession that forces would be armed with both non-lethal and lethal weapons as well as having access to tanks.

“In the next three years the military plans to activate and train an estimated 4,700 service members for specialized domestic operations, according to Air Force Gen. Gene Renuart, commander of U.S. Northern Command, which was created in 2002 for homeland defense missions,” reports the Colorado Independent.

“It’s to help us manage the consequences of a large-scale event,” said Renuart. “We have one [unit] now trained and equipped and assigned to the Northern Command. We’ll grow a second one this calendar year of 2009 and a third one in the calendar year 2010 so we can provide the nation three sets of capabilities that could respond to an event of the size of 9/11 or larger.”

But as Mike German, national security counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union’s legislative office in Washington., D.C., points out, “This isn’t a military police brigade or a civil affairs brigade. This is actually a combat brigade being assigned a domestic mission.”

“It’s fine for the general to say that,” said counter-terrorist operations specialist German. “But we want to know what the policies actually are, what the roles are and what the regulations are to see whether this is actually complying with the law.”

The ACLU has filed a Freedom Of Information Request demanding more information on the purpose and scope of military assets under Northcom control being deployed domestically.

Despite Northcom’s insistence that the deployments are purely related to natural disaster and mass casualty response, the original Army Times report quoted 1st BCT commander Col. Roger Cloutier as saying that the unit would be trained in the use of “nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals” for the purposes of “crowd and traffic control”.

The use of U.S. troops in law enforcement duties is a complete violation of the Posse Comitatus Act and the Insurrection Act, which substantially limit the powers of the federal government to use the military for law enforcement unless under precise and extreme circumstances.

Section 1385 of the Posse Comitatus Act states, “Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.”

Under the John Warner Defense Authorization Act, signed by President Bush on October 17, 2006, the law was changed to state, “The President may employ the armed forces to restore public order in any State of the United States the President determines hinders the execution of laws or deprives people of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law or opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.”

However, these changes were repealed in their entirety by HR 4986: National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008, reverting back to the original state of the Insurrection Act of 1807. Despite this repeal, President Bush attached a signing statement saying that he did not feel bound by the repeal.

Fears of active duty military assets being called upon to administer martial law in the aftermath of an economic collapse or a large scale terrorist attack were heightened after we revealed the existence of a FEMA-run program which is training Pastors and other religious representatives to become secret police enforcers who teach their congregations to “obey the government” in preparation for a declaration of martial law, property and firearm seizures, and forced relocation.

Debunkers and “urban myth” websites - such as The Museum of Hoaxes - dismissed the story as a hoax, yet it was later confirmed in triplicate by mainstream news reports.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD November 05, 2008, 06:48:48 PM
well I was listeneing to Bubba the Love Sponge on Sirius today and there is a caller that works for American Airlines in Oklahoma City in the main repair facility,this guy is a legit engineer for AA,he called in last year during a airplane emergency in florida that was live on TV and he was telling everyone listening about what the pilots were radioing back to the OK. facility,he does this crap while Bubba has his voice distorted to cover his identity.

so today the guy calls about how the airlines are making up excusing to keep the price of airfares jacked up while the price of fuel drops like a rock and then they start talking about how the airlines are talking about laying off engineers again and how the airlines don't give a shit about crashes or hi jacking, they are more worried about the cash they can save.

Bubba starts going off about 9/11 and how if he or any of the other guys in the studio were on a plane and a stinky arab got up with a box cutter they would not stand a chance now a days and the engineers says that the engineers at AA have studied the films of the planes hitting the towers and that the second aircraft was not the plane that the authorities said it was,the guy said that the airline didn't have anything in its inventory that was that age in its inventory,he then explains how the engineers have done measurements taken from the screen captures and the dimensions are all wrong for 767.

I find it funny that an engineer that works for the airline that supposedly  owned that second plane says that its not one of theirs,this guy is a legit employee,during the last year or so he has called in a few times with shit about American Airlines that isn't public knowledge and later it gets released to the press and the guy knew about it weeks in advance.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 11, 2008, 02:54:24 AM
Warnings from world leaders all within 72 hours


Daily News Caster
Monday, Nov 10, 2008

“Australian PM Kevin Rudd - “Nuke strike would make 9/11 insignificant” and other weird warnings”

“Over the last 72 hours there has been a strange melange of cryptic messages leaked from world political leaders about what could be in store for America over the next few months.

These predictions of impending doom come from England, France, Australia and the United States.

Biden told the top Democratic donors that a “generated crisis” will develop within six months and Barak Obama will need the help of community leaders to control the population as unpopular decisions are made and Americans resist.

    Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
    —Daniel 7:23

Biden speaking at the fundraiser, “I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate, And he’s gonna need help. And the kind of help he’s gonna need is, he’s gonna need you - not financially to help him - we’re gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it’s not gonna be apparent initially, it’s not gonna be apparent that we’re right.”

Biden’s ominous language at the Seattle Sheraton are followed with statements by long time establishment insiders Colin Powell and Madeline Albright both say there is a massive crisis on the horizon and Biden was simply making a “statement in fact.”

“The problems will always be there and there’s going to be a crisis which will come along on the 21st, 22nd of January that we don’t even know about right now.” Powell told Meet the Press.

Lord West, adviser to Prime Minister Gordon Brown on national security says, “There is another great plot building up again and we are monitoring. It dipped slightly and is now rising again within the context of severe. The threat is huge. We have done all the things that we need to do, but the threat is building - the complex plots are building,”

Across the channel from England you have the French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner warning the press that he believes Israel will strike Iran before they can develope nuclear weapons completley ignoring the fact that the chief of the International Atomic Energy Agency, Mohammed ElBradei, said that Iran lacks the key components to produce an atomic weapon.

“The devastation that could be wreaked by one major nuclear weapons incident alone puts 9/11 and almost everything else [in] to the category of the insignificant,” Rudd said.

Why are there so many high level politicians around the world in a seemingly coordinated effort warning of huge threats and developing crisis’ that may include a nuclear device? Are they preparing the masses for an event or series of events that have been in the making for some time? Is the public being prepared for new and forming enemies with a potential to plunge the entire world into war?”
—-end quote—

A number of notable public figures, to be sure; Biden, Rudd, Colin Powell, Matelaine Albright, Lord West and French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner. Taken alone there are plenty of ready explanations, but within 72hrs.?

Are there any more recent examples out there?

News Link
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD November 11, 2008, 07:42:56 AM
Jesus Lox where have you been?the British PM is all over the place pushing a new world govt in the last couple of days and you didn't post about it once.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 12, 2008, 09:52:40 PM
ROFL. you mean Gordon Brown? He calls for a New World Order Everyday!

Glenn Beck Talking About A New World Order

Guess What? The New World Order Still "DOESN'T EXIST" HAHAAHAH
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 14, 2008, 02:40:40 AM
I want my New World Order!

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 17, 2008, 06:19:45 AM
G-20: Shaping a new world order
U.S. economic mettle is tested as emboldened leaders from throughout the world gather in Washington.

By Steve Hargreaves, staff writer
Last Updated: November 14, 2008: 11:48 AM ET

NEW YORK ( -- The role of the United States as the world's economic leader will be tested this weekend when 20 significant world leaders meet in Washington to address the global financial crisis.

Some European leaders are hailing the summit as the next Bretton Woods - a reference to the historic talks in the latter days of WWII that, in effect, made the dollar the world's dominant currency and laid the foundation for the economic order of the past 60 years.

The United States basically ran those meetings. Close to prevailing in the war, it was the world's undisputed military and economic leader.

But today, with the current credit crisis partly rooted in America, and with the rising economic might of China and a unified Europe, that dominance is being challenged.

"The Europeans see themselves as taking a position equal to the U.S.," said Irene Finel-Honigman, an international affairs professor at Columbia University specializing in international banking. "We're looking at a different composition of players and a different powerplay. It's going to be fascinating to watch."

Europe's heavy hand
To bolster their position, the Europeans come to the meeting emboldened by their belief that the credit crisis didn't originate on their soil.

They say that means the more tightly regulated European banking model has triumphed over the more lax laws favored in America.

"The initial response was accusing the U.S. of cowboy capitalism," said Finel-Honigman. "But as the weeks passed, it's become clear we're all in this together."

Together or not, deep divisions still exist between the United States and the Europeans, who initially called for this meeting and will be pushing an agenda heavy on new rules.

Their proposals include: Greater oversight of hedge funds and investment banks; increasing how much money banks need to keep in reserve; more transparent and universal accounting standards; and limits on executive pay.

All that would be accompanied by a new global network of regulators -regulators that would presumably have power over U.S. banks, a potential non-starter with the Bush administration.

"Self-regulation to solve all problems, it's finished," French President Nicholas Sarkozy was quoted saying in the Guardian newspaper last month. "Laissez-faire, it's finished. The all-powerful market that is always right, it's finished."

Moreover, the Europeans are expected to come to the talks presenting a more united front than ever. And they are likely to use one voice to gain international support to counter U.S. policies which many blame for this crisis.

The United States
For the United States, the main goal of the summit will be to derail many of these new regulations, said Robert Brusca, chief economist at Fact and Opinion Economics, a Manhattan consultancy.

It's a goal Brusca seems to fully support.

"The last thing we need is another powerless, toothless, cumbersome global agency," he said. "You need to let [banks] run their business, the government isn't going to run it any better."

The Bush Administration is of the same mindset.

While Bush has agreed some more regulation is needed, particularly when it comes to unifying accounting standards and increasing transparency, he is wary of too much government involvement.

"We must recognize that government intervention is not a cure-all," Bush said in statement just before the summit Thursday, which seemed almost designed to temper European expectations. "History has shown that the greater threat to economic prosperity is not too little government involvement in the market - but too much."

Brusca said the United States should instead focus on what he views as more fundamental causes of this economic crisis - mainly China's unwillingness to let its currency, the yuan, rise in value.

The low yuan, Brusca argues, makes Chinese goods unfairly competitive, and prods U.S. consumers to buy too much. This gives China its huge trade surplus, which it has used to buy U.S. Treasurys, mortgage-backed securities and other products that allowed all these banks to lend so freely in the first place.

"They have abused the rules of the game, and politically, this is very dangerous," he said.

The Bush administration may raise this issue at the talks. Getting China to raise the yuan was, after all, one of the administration's highest priorities just a few years ago.

China, Russia, and everyone else
When a consensus is achieved by the G-20 it carries a lot of weight. With its 19 nations plus the European Union, it represents 90% of the world's economy and 75% of its population. But reaching a consensus is the toughest part for such a big and powerful group.

And at this summit, China, Russia, and most developing countries will be pushing for more power, not just within the G-20, but in other, more exclusive clubs like the G-7, the World Trade Organization, and the International Monetary Fund.

With all these nations pushing for such disparate things, it's unlikely much will get done, at least this time around.

The Europeans are unlikely to push China to reform its currency because of what China will likely ask in return, said Sebastian Mallaby, a senior fellow for international economics at the Council on Foreign Relations.

"China isn't going to give up its export-led growth strategy for the sake of the international system unless it gets a bigger stake in that system - meaning a much bigger voice within the International Monetary Fund and a corresponding reduction in Europe's exaggerated influence," Mallaby wrote in a recent op-ed in the Wall Street Journal. "Naturally, the Europeans aren't proposing it."

And despite America coming to the table with a black eye from selling these rotten mortgage backed securities around the globe, nearly everyone says the country, with its massive economy and long history of solid stewardship, is still in the driver's seat when it comes to setting worldwide economic policy.

"There is no other country that could offer the leadership that would cause the G-20 to come up with anything even worth thinking about," said George Magnus, a senior economic advisor at the Swiss bank UBS.

That means the Europeans are unlikely to get the type of oversight they're proposing.

Combine the wide range of interests, the complexity of the problem, and the fact that the U.S. is being represented by a lame duck president - Barack Obama is not expected to attend - and it's unlikely anything will get accomplished besides, maybe, a commitment to meet again.

"I have quite low expectations of what's likely to be achieved," said Magnus. "This is just the beginning of a long and crucial dialogue."

News Link

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 18, 2008, 06:04:26 AM
Are you a chump?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx November 25, 2008, 04:38:24 AM
Vice President Joe Biden promises WeAreChange an upcoming crisis
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx December 01, 2008, 09:37:18 AM
Washington Post: 20,000 More U.S. Troops To Be Deployed For “Domestic Security”

As part of long term agenda to establish “military form of government,” combat likely unrest following total economic collapse.


Paul Joseph Watson
Monday, December 1, 2008

The Washington Post today reports on plans to station 20,000 more U.S. troops inside America for purposes of “domestic security” from September 2011, an expansion of Northcom’s militarization of the country in preparation for potential civil unrest following a total economic collapse or a mass terror attack.

“The U.S. military expects to have 20,000 uniformed troops inside the United States by 2011 trained to help state and local officials respond to a nuclear terrorist attack or other domestic catastrophe, according to Pentagon officials,” reports the Post.

“Domestic emergency deployment may be “just the first example of a series of expansions in presidential and military authority,” or even an increase in domestic surveillance, said Anna Christensen of the ACLU’s National Security Project. And Cato Vice President Gene Healy warned of “a creeping militarization” of homeland security.”

As Alex Jones exposed back in the late 1990’s, U.S. troops have been training for this eventuality for a considerable amount of time. During numerous urban warfare drills that Jones attended and reported on, troops were trained to raid, arrest and imprison U.S. citizens in detention camps as well as taking over public buildings and running checkpoints. During role playing exercises, actors playing prisoners would scream “I’m an American citizen, I have rights” as they were being dragged away by troops.

The contention that the troops will merely help “recovery efforts” after a major catastrophe is contradicted by the fact that Northcom itself, in a September 8 Army Times article, said the first wave of the deployment, which was put in place on October 1st at Fort Stewart and at Peterson Air Force Base in Colorado Springs, would be aimed at tackling “civil unrest and crowd control”.

After a controversy arose surrounding the admissions made in the Army Times article, Northcom retracted the claim but conceded that both lethal and non-lethal weaponry traditionally used in crowd control and riot situations would still be used in the field.

The increasing militarization of America is part of a long term agenda to abolish Constitutional rule and establish a “military form of government,” following a large scale terror attack or similar disaster, as Tommy Franks, the former commander of the military’s Central Command, alluded to in a November 2003 Cigar Aficionado piece.

Franks outlined the scenario by which martial law would be put in place, saying, “It means the potential of a weapon of mass destruction and a terrorist, massive, casualty-producing event somewhere in the Western world – it may be in the United States of America – that causes our population to question our own Constitution and to begin to militarize our country in order to avoid a repeat of another mass, casualty-producing event. Which in fact, then begins to unravel the fabric of our Constitution. Two steps, very, very important.”

In the short term, the domestic deployment of troops is likely aimed at combating likely civil unrest that will ensue after a complete economic collapse followed by a devastating period of hyperinflation.

This warning was again echoed a few days ago in a leaked internal memo from Citibank.

“The world is not going back to normal after the magnitude of what they have done. When the dust settles this will either work, and the money they have pushed into the system will feed through into an inflation shock,” wrote Tom Fitzpatrick, Citibank’s chief technical strategist.

The memo predicts “depression, civil disorder and possibly wars” as a fallout from an economic collapse that many say is on the horizon.

Naturally, the claim that such troop deployments are merely to aid in disaster relief efforts is a thin veil aimed at distracting from the real goal. Should a real tragedy occur, volunteers and already existing civil aid organizations are fully capable of dealing with such events, as we witnessed on 9/11.

The military are primarily trained to kill people and break things, and their role during the Hurricane Katrina relief efforts was mainly focused on detaining people in sports stadiums, shooting alleged looters and seizing guns from wealthy home owners in the high and dry areas, while real recovery measures were left to volunteers and local state authorities.

The open admission that U.S. troops will be involved in law enforcement operations as well as potentially using non-lethal weapons against American citizens is a complete violation of the Posse Comitatus Act and the Insurrection Act, which substantially limit the powers of the federal government to use the military for law enforcement unless under precise and extreme circumstances.

Section 1385 of the Posse Comitatus Act states, “Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.”

Under the John Warner Defense Authorization Act, signed by President Bush on October 17, 2006, the law was changed to state, “The President may employ the armed forces to restore public order in any State of the United States the President determines hinders the execution of laws or deprives people of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law or opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.”

However, these changes were repealed in their entirety by HR 4986: National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008, reverting back to the original state of the Insurrection Act of 1807. Despite this repeal, President Bush attached a signing statement saying that he did not feel bound by the repeal. It remains to be seen whether President elect Obama will reverse Bush’s signing statement.

The original text of the Insurrection Act severely limits the power of the President to deploy troops within the United States.

For troops to be deployed, a condition has to exist that, “(1) So hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or (2) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws. In any situation covered by clause (1), the State shall be considered to have denied the equal protection of the laws secured by the Constitution.”

Is the incoming Obama administration and Northcom waiting for such a scenario to unfold, an event that completely overwhelms state authorities, before unleashing the might of the U.S. Army against the American people?

The deployment of National Guard troops to aid law enforcement or for disaster relief purposes is legal under the authority of the governor of a state, but using active duty U.S. Army in law enforcement operations inside America absent the conditions described in the Insurrection Act is completely illegal.

The political left and right need to join forces and denounce this plan for what it is - another unconstitutional step towards the incremental implementation of martial law and the militarization of America.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx December 08, 2008, 12:01:49 PM
Former ISI Chief: Mumbai And 9/11 Both “Inside Jobs”


General Hamid Gul, the former head of the Pakistani ISI, told CNN yesterday that both the Mumbai attacks and 9/11 were “inside jobs,” much to the chagrin of host and CFR luminary Fareed Zakaria, who told viewers that Gul’s opinions were “absolutely wrong and thoroughly discredited”.

“When you look at the full spectrum of possibilities, who could have done it, then one knows that Samjhauta Express was a similar case, in which Pakistan ISI was accused. But it turned out that it was the militant Hindus themselves who had killed 68 passengers in that train, and that it was an inside job,” said Gul.

“Now Colonel Srikant Purohit, who is a serving army officer, he has been caught in this particular case. And the whole thing has turned around.”

“So, obviously, there is an inside job.”

The revelation that Mukhtar Ahmed, a “counterinsurgency police officer who may have been on an undercover mission” working for Indian authorities was arrested for illegally buying mobile phone cards used by the Mumbai gunmen, allied with the numerous intelligence warnings proving that the method, arrival and targets of attack were all known well in advance, proves Gul right in his assertion that the terrorists could not have achieved such carnage without help from people on the inside.

The revelation that Mukhtar Ahmed, a “counterinsurgency police officer who may have been on an undercover mission” working for Indian authorities was arrested for illegally buying mobile phone cards used by the Mumbai gunmen, allied with the numerous intelligence warnings proving that the method, arrival and targets of attack were all known well in advance, proves Gul right in his assertion that the terrorists could not have achieved such carnage without help from people on the inside.

Asked by Zakaria, “What is your hunch as to who did - who perpetrated the 9/11 attacks?,” Gul responded, “Well, I have been on record, and I said it is the Zionists or the neocons. They have done it. It was an inside job.”

“And they wanted to go on the world conquerors. They were looking upon it as an opportunity window, when the Muslim world was lying prostrate. Russia was nowhere in sight. China was still not an economic giant that is has turned out to be.”

“And they thought that this was a good time to go and fill those strategic areas, which are still lying without any American presence. And, of course, to control the energy tap of the world.”

“Presently, it is the Middle East, and in future it is going to be Central Asia,” added Gul.

Gul told Zakaria that the evidence for 9/11 being planned by Osama Bin Laden and executed by Al-Qaeda has not emerged and that the events are still “shrouded in mystery”.

“A lot of people have a lot of misgivings about that. And it’s not only me. I think a lot of people in America would be thinking the same way. There are scientists, there are scholars, who have written articles on it,” added Gul, calling for President elect Barack Obama to set up a new commission to investigate the attacks.

Gul said the attacks were planned inside America by people with a dangerous agenda who have “turned the world upside-down”.

Returning from a commercial break, Zakaria, editor of Newsweek, Council on Foreign Relations kingpin and also a Trilateral Commission board member, told his viewers, “Some of General Gul’s views are simply false. There is a mountain of evidence about 9/11 that refutes his assertions,” but Zakaria failed to cite any of it.

Zakaria was then joined by counter-insurgency expert David Kilcullen who said that the Mumbai attacks bore all the hallmarks of a “clandestine operation or a covert operation style activity,” but when pressed he refused to directly implicate Pakistan in the attack.

News Links

Update: Here is the video of it!!
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx February 15, 2009, 03:52:18 PM
“Pork” Bailout Bill Could Ban Guns for Millions of Americans

Gun Owners of America
February 15, 2009

The Obama administration is putting a lot of pressure on Congress to slam through the most recent $800+ billion bailout package before anyone has an opportunity to read it.


The Obama administration intones that the details are unimportant. The only thing that matters is the “bigness.” And, by shipping a bill of nearly $900 billion (plus interest) to our children and grandchildren, the package is really, really big –- bigger, in fact, than the budget of our entire government for the first 170 years of our country’s existence.

But now that some of the details are finally starting to leak out of Washington, Gun Owners -– and a lot of other analysts -– are beginning to look at the fine print. And some of it is particularly scary.

Of particular concern to gun owners are sections 13101 through 13434 of HR 1, which would set up the infrastructure to computerize the medical records of ALL AMERICANS in a government-coordinated database.

True, the bill doesn’t mandate that the data will be in a giant computer under the Oval Office. But it does mandate that your medical records be reduced to a computerized form which is available to it in a second.

This it would do by establishing a National Coordinator for Health Information Technology –- tasked with, among other things, “providing information to help guide medical decisions at the time and place of care.”

It should be scary enough that a government bureaucrat is directed by statute to try to influence your doctor’s decisions with respect to your medical care.

But of even greater concern to gun owners is the fact that a government-coordinated database (which government can freely access) will now contain all records of government-provided and private psychiatric treatment -– including, in particular, the drugs which were prescribed.

Remember last year’s “NICS Improvement Act” otherwise known as the Veterans Disarmament Act? This law codified ATF’s attempts to make you a prohibited person on the basis of a government psychiatrist’s finding that you are a “danger” –- without a finding by any court. Well, roughly 150,000 battle-scarred veterans have already been unfairly stripped of their gun rights by the government.

But people who, as kids, were diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder… or seniors with Alzheimer’s… or police with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder… or people who are now theoretically covered by the new law… these people have, generally, not suffered the consequences of its sanctions YET. And the chief reason is that their records are not easily available to the government in a central, easily retrievable, computerized form.

The bailout bill would change all of that. It would push increasingly hard to force your private psychiatrist or government-sanctioned psychiatrist to turn over your psychiatric records to a massive database. This would be mandated immediately if your doctor does business with the government.

This would supposedly save Medicare money in connection with medical treatment. And, the sponsors insist, they would work very hard to protect your privacy.

But this turns the concept of “privacy” on its head. The privacy which is MOST important is privacy from the prying eyes of government –- not privacy of government data against the prying eyes of others. After all, many government data bases have been hacked in recent years, with mountains of information stolen.

So, once the government has access to these computerized psychiatric records, the stage will be set for using that database to take away the gun rights of those with Alzheimer’s, those with ADD, and those with PTSD.

ACTION: Write your two senators. Urge them to vote against the bailout bill (HR 1) until it is stripped of provisions which would turn your psychiatric records over to a central government-coordinated database against your will without you getting your day in court.

You can use the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center to send your Senators the pre-written e-mail message below.

- Prewritten Letter -

Dear Senator:

I am particularly concerned about sections 13101 through 13434 of the new bailout bill (HR 1). These sections would set up the infrastructure to computerize the medical records of ALL AMERICANS in a government-coordinated database, including psychiatric records.

It is scary enough that a government bureaucrat is directed by statute to try to influence my doctor’s decisions with respect to my medical care.

But of even greater concern to gun owners is the fact that a government-coordinated database will now contain all records of government-provided and private psychiatric treatment.

Last year’s “NICS Improvement Act” codified ATF’s attempts to make a person a prohibited person on the basis of a government psychiatrist’s finding that he is a “danger” –- without a finding by any court. Well, roughly 150,000 battle-scarred veterans have already been unfairly stripped of their gun rights by the government.

Now, this new government-coordinated database threatens the gun rights of people who, as kids, were diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder… seniors with Alzheimer’s… police with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder… and many other law-abiding Americans.

Please vote against cloture on HR 1 until this provision is removed.
: Ron Paul: Culprits Of Financial Collapse Should Be Arrested
: [Ht]LOx March 12, 2009, 06:40:41 PM
Ron Paul: Culprits Of Financial Collapse Should Be Arrested

Paul Joseph Watson
Thursday, March 12, 2009


Congressman Ron Paul says that the people responsible for the economic crisis should not be hailed as saviors and given more power to fix the problem that they created, but arrested and criminally prosecuted.

Paul told the Alex Jones Show that the only way the private Federal Reserve could be brought under control would come as a result of a mass uprising, noting that there is a lot more awareness in Washington about the Fed’s contribution to the economic crisis.

The Congressman has two bills before Congress, one to abolish the Fed altogether and another to audit the organization.

“Today they’re protected, they’re in total secrecy and they’re protected by the law - if 1207 is passed we have an audit and they have to answer the questions and I figure, if we ever get that far and get the exposure and get the transparency that we need then people will wake up and realize, why do we have them at all,” said Paul.

The Congressman’s bill to audit the Fed is similar to another bill introduced by Bernie Sanders in the Senate which is aimed at getting the Fed to answer specific questions about where $2 trillion in bailout funds has gone, a subject that Bloomberg News sued the Fed simply to try and discover. Staggering scenes unfolded last week at a Senate budget Committee meeting when Bernanke arrogantly refused to state where any of the bailout money had gone despite repeated questioning by Sanders.

Asked if the people who caused the economic collapse should be trusted as saviors or criminally charged, Paul responded, “We should have minimal government, but even in a minimalist government your government is supposed to deal with theft and physical harm and fraud, and that’s what’s going on and that’s what they ignore or protect….it’s horrible what they’re doing….and they should be prosecuting these people, these people should be in prison.”

The Texas Congressman also discussed Obama’s monetary policy, noting that every time a new government initiative was announced to supposedly rescue the economy, the stock markets sink.

“In spite of how a lot of people think the markets don’t know what’s going on, the markets are pretty smart, so the fact that they’re not responding, in spite of all this stuff the government is doing, every time the government comes up with a new program, the markets go down even more,” said Paul, noting that free market advocates were right in warning that the problems will only begin to be resolved once liquidation is allowed to occur.

Asked how bad the economic picture would get, Paul responded, “I think it’s going to be very prolonged, I don’t see any rebound, markets may come back up and that sort of thing but to rebound I would expect it to last every bit as long as happened in the 30’s,” adding that the last depression did not really end until after a world war.

“I think it’s going to be a long long time but now we live in greater danger because people are far more demanding, they believe they have a right to their neighbors property and that’s why there’s liable to be violence….ultimately they’re going to destroy the dollar,” said the Congressman, adding that the only quick solution to the crisis was to follow constitutional principles.

Listen to the interview with Ron Paul below.
: The Obama Deception!! Please Watch!!!
: [Ht]LOx March 13, 2009, 02:06:23 AM
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD April 21, 2009, 05:31:40 PM
well here we have israeli spies trying to trade a position on a US House committee for help getting spying charges reduced and the idiots get caught by an NSA wiretap.

they have the bitch on tape saying she could help and she has the nerve to call it all lies when asked for a comment on this story.

makes Fabled Enemies seem much more possible doesn't it?

and if you read more of it, you see the Bush administration moving to drop the case so they can blackmail this cunt to back warrantless wiretaps.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: NeoThoR April 24, 2009, 10:19:34 PM

I was actually reading about of this thread... but I think I came a little late.  Haha
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx May 01, 2009, 05:51:56 AM
Part 1:  April 2009 Chemistry Report about Nano-Thermitic Material
Discovered in 9/11 World Trade Center Dust

Part 1

Part 2
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD May 01, 2009, 06:28:13 AM
I worked as a welders helper for the Union Pacific railroad and we did a shit load of thermite welds,that shit is fucking mean.

there was one incident of a drunken welder setting up the pot for the weld and when they dropped the aluminum match in the pot they bumped it and the pot spun the wrong way and cut a 133 pound per foot rail(main line) in a matter of two or thee seconds.

this shit would easily cut through steel beams instantly.

the stuff we used came from france and it was a bag of metallic sand that you poured into a vessel that was lined with asbestoes and if you didn't empty that vessel quickly after setting the match to it the pot would have melted.

you could easily fill small plastic tubes with this stuff and wrap them around beams to cut them and thats a low tech idea,I don't doubt that army engineers could have straps of this shit using some sort of pliable material to suspend the thermite into ropes for easy bridge demolition.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Caruzzo May 13, 2009, 02:51:43 AM
Alex Jones YouTube Channel banned btw.  :o
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Caruzzo May 20, 2009, 12:09:01 AM
Alex Jones YouTube channel has been teh restored.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx June 19, 2009, 12:10:53 PM
Ron Paul Slams Federal Reserve’s New Dictatorial Powers

Paul Joseph Watson
Friday, June 19, 2009


Responding to the Obama administration’s new regulatory reform plan, which will officially hand the Federal Reserve complete dictatorial control over the U.S. economy, Congressman Ron Paul told MSNBC that the Fed was now more powerful than Congress.

Paul emphasized that no amount of regulation could compensate for a financial system created and controlled by the Federal Reserve that was completely unstable to begin with.

“The regulations should be on the Federal Reserve. We should have transparency of the Federal Reserve. They can create trillions of dollars to bail out their friends, and we don’t even have any transparency of this. They’re more powerful than the Congress,” said Paul.

As we reported yesterday, the new rules would see the Fed given the authority to “regulate” any company whose activity it believes could threaten the economy and the markets.

Obama’s regulatory “reform” plan is nothing less than a green light for the complete and total takeover of the United States by a private banking cartel that will usurp the power of existing regulatory bodies, who are now being blamed for the financial crisis in order that their status can be abolished and their roles handed over to the all-powerful Fed.

“They’re giving a tremendous amount of more power to the Federal Reserve - the very institution that created our problem. That’s about the way Washington works,” said the Congressman

“Too much regulations to begin with, so they give it more. The Federal Reserve creates the problem, so we give them more power. It’s fiat money that’s the problem, so we allow them to double the money supply - you can’t solve the problems that way. That’s like saying you can take care of a drug addict by just giving them more drugs,” concluded Paul, adding that the lack of understanding about how the Federal Reserve created the problem and how the free market ought to work was the root of the crisis.

Watch the clip below.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx June 30, 2009, 04:32:29 PM
Ron Paul: Democrats Who Opposed Climate Bill Voted For It Anyway
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx July 21, 2009, 08:49:22 PM
Alan Grayson grills Ben Bernanke on Foreign Lending

Marc Gallagher
Liberty Maven
July 21, 2009

Alan Grayson, a Florida Democrat who has been very critical in the past of Fed actions takes it to Bernanke today regarding foreign central bank lending. If the 90 or so Democratic cosponsors of Ron Paul’s HR1207 bill doesn’t convince you that Fed transparency is bipartisan then Grayson’s grilling of Bernanke should.

What I find especially horrid about this is that the U.S. is bankrupt and the Fed is not only printing money and handing it out to U.S. financial institutions, but is handing it out to foreign central banks so they can hand it out to their own financial institutions. Meanwhile the value of the dollar takes more of a hit exacerbating the “hidden” inflation tax on every person in the world who holds dollars.

Editor’s note: Barney Frank, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, has no idea when the Federal Reserve was established.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx July 21, 2009, 08:55:01 PM
Billions of People Expected to Die Under Current Codex Alimentarius Guidelines

Barbara Minton
Natural News
July 21, 2009

Your right to eat healthy food and use supplements of your choice is rapidly vanishing, but every effort has been made to keep you in the dark about the coming nutricide. Codex Alimentarius is scheduled for full global implementation on December 31, 2009, and not a word has been spoken in main stream media about this threat to humanity. Yet, according to the projections of the World Health Organization (WHO) and the Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO), a minimum of 3 billion people will die from the Codex mandated vitamin and mineral guideline alone. As the clock ticks toward this irrevocable deadline, the Natural Solutions Foundation (NSF) and its medical director, Dr. Rima Laibow, are feverishly working to change Codex guidelines. They need your help.

Former Nazi is father of contemporary Codex


 Codex is the enemy of everyone except those who will profit from it, according to Dr. Laibow. She points to its association with those who committed crimes during the Nazi regime. At the end of World War II, the Nuremberg tribunal judged Nazis who had committed horrendous crimes against humanity and sentenced them to prison terms. One of those found guilty was the president of the megalithic corporation I.G. Farben, Hermann Schmitz. His company was the largest chemical manufacturing enterprise in the world, and had extraordinary political and economic power and influence with the Hitlerian Nazi state. Farben produced the gas used in the Nazi gas chambers, and the steal for the railroads built to transport people to their deaths.

While serving his prison term, Schmitz looked for an alternative to brute force for controlling people and realized that people could be controlled through their food supply. When he got out of prison, he went to his friends at the United Nations (UN) and laid out a plan to take over the control of food worldwide. A trade commission called Codex Alimentarius (Latin for food code) was re-created under the guise of it being a consumer protection commission. But Codex was never in the business of protecting people. It has always been about money and profits at the expense of people.

In 1962, the timetable was set for Codex to be fully implemented on a global level by December 31, 2009. Under Codex, committees were established to create guidelines on such topics as fish and fisheries, fats and oils, fruits and vegetables, ground nuts, nutrition, food for specialized uses, and vitamins and minerals. There were 27 committees in all, creating a huge bureaucracy. Under Codex there are over 4,000 guidelines and regulations on everything that can be put into your mouth with the exception of pharmaceuticals which are not regulated by Codex.

Codex is a weapon being used to reduce the level of nutrition worldwide

 Codex is an industry dominated regulation setting organization, and as such has no legal standing. Participation in Codex is said to be voluntary. But Codex has risen to the level of de facto legal standing because Codex is administered by the WHO and FAO. They fund it and run it at the request of the UN. Since the WHO and FAO are supposed to be about health, there is conflict of interest. The committees of Codex work up guidelines, rules and regulations, and present them to a Codex commission for ratification. Once they are ratified and approved by consensus, they become mandatory for any country that is a member of the WHO.

Codex was accepted when the WTO was formed in 1994 as a means of harmonizing food standards globally for easy trade between countries. As a result, countries must harmonize with Codex if they want to have any standing in a trade dispute. When disputes arise and countries are pulled in to WTO, the one that is Codex compliant automatically wins, regardless of the merits of its case.

Dr. Laiblow sees codex as a weapon to make every nation scurry to become compliant to the decline in nutritional standards. She points out that compliance in the U.S. will mark the end of its consumer protection laws. Codex will not serve consumers. Codex will serve the interests of the medical, pharmaceutical, biotechnology, chemical, and big agricultural industries.

Under Codex, nutrients are classified as poisons

 The Dietary Substances Health and Education Act (DSHEA), was signed into law in 1994 for the purpose of ensuring that safe and appropriately labeled products would remain available to those who wanted to use them. In the findings associated with this law, Congress stated that there may be a positive relationship between sound dietary practice and good health, and a connection between dietary supplement use, reduced health-care expenses, and disease prevention. Under DSHEA, nutrients and herbs are classified as food. There is no upper limit set, and access is freely given. Americans are allowed to have any nutrients they want, because under English common law, anything that is not expressly forbidden is permitted.

Codex, on the other hand, is based on Napoleonic law under which anything not expressly permitted is forbidden. Therefore, only what is expressly allowed under Codex will be permitted, and everything else is forbidden. In 1994, the same year DSHEA was signed, Codex had nutrients declared to be toxic and poisonous. And as poisons, they claimed people must be protected from them through the use of toxicology and risk assessment, under which scientists test small doses on animals until they are able to discern an impact. They then take the first sign of the most minimal impact and divide this amount by 100 to establish a safety margin required from these poisons. This means that the largest dose of any nutrient allowed under Codex is 1/100th of the amount shown to produce the first discernable impact.

Nutrients allowed under codex are limited to those on the positive list, expected to contain only 18 nutrients, one of them being fluoride. Dr. Laibow points out that although fluoride has no biological benefit whatsoever, it does make people complacent.

The codex proponents now have several bills before Congress designed to overturn and get rid of DSHEA. Once this is accomplished, the U.S. will have been harmonized with the vitamin and mineral guidelines of codex. High potency, therapeutically effective, significant nutrients will then be illegal in the way that heroin is illegal. They will not even be available by prescription.

Codex supports toxic food additives, pesticides and GM foods

 Codex poses a significant threat to the food supply, according to Dr. Robert Verkerk, founder and director of the Alliance for Natural Health. About 300 dangerous food additives that are mainly synthetic will be allowed under Codex, including aspartame, BHA, BHT, potassium bromate, tartrazine, and more. Dr. Verkerk is particularly concerned that no consideration has been given to potential risks associated with long-term exposure to mixtures of additives.

Codex sets limits for the dangerous industrial chemicals that can be used in food, but they are incredibly high, and the list of chemicals that can be used is long. In 2001, 176 countries including the U.S. got together and decided that 12 highly toxic organic chemicals, known as persistent organic pollutants (POPS) were so bad that they had to be banned. There are many more than 12 toxic chemicals used on food, but these 12 were unanimously declared to be the worst. Of these, 9 are pesticides.

Under Codex, 7 of the 9 forbidden POPS will again be allowed in the production of food. All together, Codex allows over 3,275 different pesticides, including those that are suspected carcinogens or endocrine disrupters. There is no consideration of the long-term effects of exposure to mixtures of pesticide residues in food.

Organic food governance will be dumbed down to suit the interests of large food producers. Various synthetic chemical additives and processing aids will be allowed, and food labeled as organic may be irradiated. Labeling will permit the use of hidden, non-organic ingredients.

Monsanto, a member of Codex, will benefit greatly as production of genetically modified (GM) foods are stepped up and more GM plants are given the green light. Terminator seeds will be approved for international trade. GM food animals will also be on the way.

Under Codex, every dairy animal can be treated with growth hormone, and all animals in the food chain will be treated with sub-clinical levels of antibiotics, according to Dr. Laibow. She claims that Codex will lead to the required irradiation of all foods with the exception of those grown locally and sold raw.

Dr. Laiblow sees Codex as "food regulations that are in fact the legalization of mandated toxicity and under-nutrition". According to her, the WHO and FAO estimate that of the 3 billion people initially expected to die as the result of the Codex vitamin and mineral guidelines, 2 billion of them will die from the preventable diseases that result from under-nutrition, such as cancer, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and many others. Those who will live will be the wealthy elites who are able to somehow provide themselves with sources of clean food and other nutrients.

Codex is legalized genocide

 Dr. Gregory Damato, Ph.D., writing for Natural News, has characterized Codex as "population control for money". He sees Codex as run by the U.S. and controlled by the big pharmaceutical corporations and the likes of Monsanto with the purpose of reducing the population of the world to a level considered sustainable by those promulgating the New World Order. This would mean a reduction of approximately 93 percent of the current world population.

Once Codex standards are adopted there will be no turning back. When Codex compliance is instigated in any area, as long as the country remains a member of the WTO, those standards cannot be repealed, or altered in any way.

Natural Solutions Foundation is working to revamp Codex guidelines worldwide

Some hope remains. Over the years, the WTO has accepted Codex standards as presumptive evidence of the rules of trade between countries. However, several times in history, the WTO has refused to make Codex the single and only standard to be used in trade disputes. Under Codex’s own statutes, their guidelines are claimed to be "advisory", and nations are able to set up their own guidelines.

Since compliance with Codex standards is simply presumptive evidence, and not finally determinative, a nation can opt out of the guidelines in an effort to protect its traditional foods and remedies. The Codex Two Step is a legal strategy that the Natural Solutions Foundation has developed to help nations wanting to do this. Under Step One, the country develops its own food and health guidelines that may be at variance with Codex guidelines. For example, it may be much stricter on the issues of toxins in the food supply or on the issue of genetically modified foods. It may require, for example, that companies using GM ingredients be required to indicate them on food labels. In countries that refuse to use GM foods, this can be indicated on their label too, so that people can make informed choices.

So, the first step is for a country to set up its guidelines. The Second Step is to adopt a national law that implements those guidelines on a sound scientific basis. The NSF is preparing models to be used for doing this that are available to any country. There is a model vitamin and mineral guideline, and a model of a food and health statute to implement that guideline.

Normally, in a trade dispute before the WTO, the country that has adopted Codex guidelines will be the winner of that dispute based on those guidelines being presumptive evidence. However, when countries have gone through the two step process to create their own guidelines, there is no such presumption, and the WTO will look at the science behind the guidelines.

In the U.S. the door is open to Codex

 In 1995, the FDA issued a policy statement saying that international standards such as Codex would supersede U.S. laws governing all food. Under the Central American Free Trade Agreement, which is illegal under current U.S. law, but is legal under international law, the U.S. is required to conform to Codex as it stands on December 31, 2009.

This is why NSF needs your help. Because the current pro-Codex stance of the U.S. is in violation of current laws, NSF has created a Citizen’s Petition in which they are asking the U.S. government to amend its Codex position according to the Two Step plan that Codex allows. This petition is a ground-breaking legal approach to compel the government to hold public hearings and move from a pro-illness Codex position to a pro-health position. If the government does not respond in an appropriate manner, the next step in the process is to take them to court.

A Citizen’s Petition is a legal means to focus a government agency’s attention on an issue of concern to citizens. Once a Citizen’s Petition has been entered, a docket to debate it is opened and public comment is accepted. A Citizen’s Petition does have one thing in common with the more familiar types of petitions. Any number of people can add their names to it and become co-petitioners.

So far, over 30,000 people have joined this petition, and three members of Congress have written a Congressional Letter in support of it. NSF needs you to read and sign this petition by going to… On this site you will also find a letter that can be sent to the U.S. Codex Manager, Dr. Edwin Scarbrough, and Dr. Barbara Schneeman, Head of the FDA’s Office of Nutritional Products.

Dr. Liabow is encouraging people to pass the word about Codex to everyone they know or with whom they come in contact. As a reader of Natural News, you are in the forefront of knowledge regarding health standards and the need to safeguard them. You are probably someone who others look to for advice on health matters. As such, you are in a special position to help this petition move forward. The new guidelines created by NSF have mandated biochemically individual determination of optimal health. These guidelines need to be adopted by Congress and also by other countries who value their traditional foods and remedies.

When Dr. Laibow was recently working in Washington D.C. to inform the members of Congress about Codex, she found that very few of them knew anything about it all. As they have become informed, some have come out against Codex. This makes writing to your congressmen on this issue critically important. Tell they about the threat of Codex. Suggest that they need a congressional briefing on the issue and suggest that they contact Dr. Rima Laibow. Remember, any negative part of Codex can be overturned by a guideline that is positive.

And while you at it, be sure to sign the Health Revolution Petition, created by Mike Adams, editor of Natural News http://www.healthrevolutionpetition… This petition highlights a series of actions critically needed to move from a disease care model to a true health care model with the goal of restoration and perpetuation of vibrant health for everyone.

For more information:…
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: flypaper July 31, 2009, 05:20:31 AM
Codex is the greatest threat to Humanity in History. The demons behind this simply need to be killed
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 05, 2009, 03:45:34 AM
Geithner Warns Regulators to Back Reform Plan

Published: Tuesday, 4 Aug 2009 | 3:54 AM ET
By: Reuters

U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner issued a stern warning punctuated with expletives to U.S. regulators to end turf battles and show support for President Barack Obama's plan to overhaul financial regulation, a person familiar with the situation said on Monday.


At a tense, hour-long meeting on Friday, Geithner told Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, Securities and Exchange Commission Chairman Mary Schapiro and Federal Deposit Insurance Corp Chairman Sheila Bair to end recent public criticism of the plan and stop airing concerns over their potential loss of authority.

The Wall Street Journal, which first reported the meeting, said that Geithner vented frustration over the plan's slow progress and told regulators that "enough is enough".

Citing people familiar with the meeting, the newspaper also said that the Treasury Secretary used obscenities and took an aggressive stance in his dressing down of the regulators.

A Treasury Department spokesman, Andrew Williams, said Geithner was resolute in his message.

"We planned this meeting as a venue to deliver a tough message to regulators that we should work together to get reform done - and focus less on protecting turf." Williams said.

Spokespersons for the Fed, the SEC and the FDIC did not immediately return calls seeking comment.

Obama in June unveiled a financial regulatory overhaul, sometimes called the biggest since the 1930s. Among other things, the plan would give the Fed added powers, award the government more power to break up troubled companies, and create a new agency to oversee consumer finance.

Many major banks and industry trade groups however have criticized the plan, as have some regulators wary that any redistribution of power would reduce their own.

Even though the regulators are viewed as independent of the White House, the Journal said Geithner told attendees that the administration and Congress set policy.

It also said the Treasury Secretary, without singling out officials, raised concerns about regulators who have questioned the wisdom of giving the Fed more power.

Schapiro and Bair have argued that more authority should be shared among a council of regulators.

News Link

ROFL, nwo is scared now. Terror Attack Coming Soon!
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx August 05, 2009, 04:14:50 AM
Hiring FEMA Camp Guards


Internment / Resettlement Specialists in the Army are primarily responsible for day-to-day operations in a military confinement/correctional facility or detention/internment facility. Internment / Resettlement Specialists provide rehabilitative, health, welfare, and security to US military prisoners within a confinement or correctional facility; provide custody, control, supervision and security to internees within a detention/internment facility; conduct inspections; prepare written reports; coordinate activities of prisoners/internees and staff personnel.

Some of your duties as an Internment / Resettlement Specialist may include:

    * Assisting with supervision and management of confinement and detention operations
    * Providing internal or external security to confinement/corrections facilities or detention/internment facilities
    * Providing custody, control, supervision and escort to all security levels of U.S. military prisoners or internees/detainees
    * Counseling and guidance to individual prisoners within a rehabilitative program
    * Preparing or reviewing reports and records of prisoners/internees and programs


Job training for a Internment / Resettlement Specialist requires 19 weeks, one day of One Station Unit Training (OSUT) which includes Basic Training and Advanced Individual Training. Part of the training is spent in the classroom and part in the field. Some of the skills you'll learn about:

    * Military laws and jurisdictions
    * Level of Force Procedures
    * Unarmed Self-Defense Techniques
    * Police Deviance and Ethics Procedures
    * Interpersonal Communications Skills
    * Close confinement operations
    * Search and restraint procedures
    * Use of firearms
    * Custody and control procedures


Helpful attributes include:

    * An ability to think and react quickly
    * An ability to remain calm in stressful situations
    * An interest in law enforcement and crime prevention


Advanced level Internment / Resettlement Specialist supervise and train other Soldiers within the same discipline. As an advanced level Internment / Resettlement Specialist, you may be:

    * Responsible for all personnel working in the confinement/correctional facility, including security, logistical, and administrative management of the prisoner/internee population
    * Supervising and establishing all administrative, logistical and food support operations, confinement/correctional, custodial, treatment, and rehabilitative activities
    * Conducting stand-alone operations, providing command and control, staff planning, administration and logistical services, and custody/control for the operation of an Enemy Prisoner of War/Civilian Internee (EPW/CI) camp, detainee internment facility
    * Conducting stand-alone operations, providing command and control, staff planning, administration and logistical services, and custody/control for the operation of a displaced civilian (DC) resettlement facility   (Watch the video on the page),14&q=CORRECTIONS&cy=us&lid=316&AVSDM=2009-07-16+09:18:00&pg=1&seq=10&fseo=1&isjs=1&re=1000,-FL-1cfa52ee4abf5782

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: BlackOPS August 11, 2009, 07:09:25 PM
I used to work for fema dude. It was awesome when they were like call this hospital too find out the number of patients they can't move, then wonder why they aren't picking up, then see satellite photos of it underwater. Also Ive had like 8 beers in the past 30 minutes suck it.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx December 07, 2009, 07:13:46 AM
Tony Romm
The Hill
December 4, 2009

The U.N.’s decision this week to investigate whether some of its climate change research had been manipulated constitutes a “direct rebuke” of the Obama administration, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) said Friday.

The White House’s unwillingness to open a similar inquiry could now only be characterized as “a sad abdication of their responsibility to ensure that U.S. policies are not driven by corrupted science and data,” the congressman added.

“The very integrity of the report that the Obama administration has predicated much of its climate change policy has been called into question and it is unconscionable that this administration and Congress is willing to abdicate responsibility of uncovering the truth to the United Nations,” explained Issa, the ranking member on the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

News Link
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx December 08, 2009, 07:30:16 AM
Enviroment, Eugenics Quotes (What They Think About You)

“Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?”
– Maurice Strong, founder of the UN Environment Programme

“A massive campaign must be launched to de-develop the United States. De-development means bringing our
economic system into line with the realities of ecology and the world resource situation.”
– Paul Ehrlich, Professor of Population Studies

“The only hope for the world is to make sure there is not another United States. We can’t let other countries have the same number of cars, the amount of industrialization, we have in the US. We have to stop these Third World countries right where they are.”
– Michael Oppenheimer, Environmental Defense Fund

“Global Sustainability requires the deliberate quest of poverty, reduced resource consumption and set levels of mortality control.”
– Professor Maurice King

“We must make this an insecure and inhospitable place for capitalists and their projects. We must reclaim the roads and plowed land, halt dam construction, tear down existing dams, free shackled rivers and return to wilderness millions of acres of presently settled land.”
– David Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!

“Complex technology of any sort is an assault on human dignity. It would be little short of disastrous for us to
discover a source of clean, cheap, abundant energy, because of what we might do with it.”
– Amory Lovins, Rocky Mountain Institute

“The prospect of cheap fusion energy is the worst thing that could happen to the planet.”
– Jeremy Rifkin, Greenhouse Crisis Foundation

“Giving society cheap, abundant energy would be the equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun.”
– Prof Paul Ehrlich, Stanford University

“Our insatiable drive to rummage deep beneath the surface of the earth is a willful expansion
of our dysfunctional civilization into Nature.”
– Al Gore, Earth in the Balance

“The big threat to the planet is people: there are too many, doing too well economically and burning too much oil.”
– Sir James Lovelock, BBC Interview

“My three main goals would be to reduce human population to about 100 million worldwide, destroy the industrial infrastructure and see wilderness, with it’s full complement of species, returning throughout the world.”
-Dave Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!

“Current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle class – involving high meat intake,
use of fossil fuels, appliances, air-conditioning, and suburban housing – are not sustainable.”
– Maurice Strong, Rio Earth Summit

“All these dangers are caused by human intervention and it is only through changed attitudes and
behaviour that they can be overcome. The real enemy, then, is humanity itself.”
– Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution

“Mankind is the most dangerous, destructive, selfish and unethical animal on the earth.”
– Michael Fox, vice-president of The Humane Society

“Humans on the Earth behave in some ways like a pathogenic micro-organism, or like the cells of a tumor.”
– Sir James Lovelock, Healing Gaia

“The Earth has cancer and the cancer is Man.”
– Club of Rome, Mankind at the Turning Point

“A cancer is an uncontrolled multiplication of cells, the population explosion is an uncontrolled multiplication of people.  We must shift our efforts from the treatment of the symptoms to the cutting out of the cancer.  The operation will demand many apparently brutal and heartless decisions.”
– Prof. Paul Ehrlich, The Population Bomb

“A reasonable estimate for an industrialized world society at the present North American material standard of living would be 1 billion.  At the more frugal European standard of living, 2 to 3 billion would be possible.”
– United Nations, Global Biodiversity Assessment

“A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal.”
– Ted Turner, founder of CNN and major UN donor

“… the resultant ideal sustainable population is hence more than 500 million but less than one billion.”
– Club of Rome, Goals for Mankind

“One America burdens the earth much more than twenty Bangladeshes.  This is a terrible thing to say in order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 people per day.  It is a horrible thing to say, but it’s just as bad not to say it.”
– Jacques Cousteau, UNESCO Courier

“If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels.”
– Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, patron of the World Wildlife Fund

“I suspect that eradicating small pox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems.”
– John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal

“The extinction of the human species may not only be inevitable but a good thing.”
– Christopher Manes, Earth First!

“Childbearing should be a punishable crime against society, unless the parents hold a government license.  All potential parents should be required to use contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing.”
– David Brower, first Executive Director of the Sierra Club

“In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill.”
– Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution

“We need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination… So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements and make little mention of any doubts… Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.”
– Stephen Schneider, Stanford Professor of Climatology, lead author of many IPCC reports

“Unless we announce disasters no one will listen.”
– Sir John Houghton, first chairman of IPCC

“It doesn’t matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true.”
– Paul Watson, co-founder of Greenpeace

“We’ve got to ride this global warming issue.  Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy.”
– Timothy Wirth, President of the UN Foundation

“No matter if the science of global warming is all phony, climate change provides the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”
-Christine Stewart, fmr Canadian Minister of the Environment

“The climate crisis is not a political issue, it is a moral and spiritual challenge to all of humanity.  It is also our greatest opportunity to lift Global Consciousness to a higher level.”
– Al Gore, accepting the Nobel Peace Prize

“The only way to get our society to truly change is to frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe.”
– emeritus professor Daniel Botkin

“We are on the verge of a global transformation.  All we need is the right major crisis.”
– David Rockefeller, Club of Rome executive manager

“Humanity is sitting on a time bomb.  If the vast majority of the world’s scientists are right, we have just ten years to avert a major catastrophe that could send out entire planet’s climate system into a tail-spin of epic destruction involving extreme weather, floods, droughts, epidemics and killer heat waves beyond anything we have ever experienced – a catastrophe of our own making.”
– Al Gore, An Inconvenient Truth

“By the end of this century, climate change will reduce the human population to a few breeding pairs surviving near the Arctic.”
– Sir James Lovelock, Revenge of Gaia

“Climate Change will result in a catastrophic, global seal level rise of seven meters.  That’s bye-bye most of Bangladesh, Netherlands, Florida and would make London the new Atlantis.”
– Greenpeace International

“Climate change is real.  Not only is it real, it’s here, and its effects are giving rise to a frighteningly new global phenomenon – the man-made natural disaster.”
– Barack Obama, US Presidential Candidate

“We are close to a time when all of humankind will envision a global agenda that encompasses a kind of Global Marshall Plan to address the causes of poverty and suffering and environmental destruction all over the earth.”
– Al Gore, Earth in the Balance

“In Nature organic growth proceeds according to a Master Plan, a Blueprint.  Such a ‘master plan’ is missing from the process of growth and development of the world system.  Now is the time to draw up a master plan for sustainable growth and world development based on global allocation of all resources and a new global economic system.  Ten or twenty years from today it will probably be too late.”
– Club of Rome, Mankind at the Turning Point

“The concept of national sovereignty has been immutable, indeed a sacred principle of international relations.  It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation.”
– UN Commission on Global Governance report

“Democracy is not a panacea.  It cannot organize everything and it is unaware of its own limits.  These facts must be faced squarely.  Sacrilegious though this may sound, democracy is no longer well suited for the tasks ahead.  The complexity and the technical nature of many of today’s problems do not always allow elected representatives to make competent decisions at the right time.”
– Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution

“In my view, after fifty years of service in the United National system, I perceive the utmost urgency and absolute necessity for proper Earth government.  There is no shadow of a doubt that the present political and economic systems are no longer appropriate and will lead to the end of life evolution on this planet.  We must therefore absolutely and urgently look for new ways.”
– Dr. Robert Muller, UN Assistant Secretary General

“Nations are in effect ceding portions of their sovereignty to the international community and beginning to create a new system of international environmental governance as a means of solving otherwise unmanageable crises.”
– Lester Brown, WorldWatch Institute

“A keen and anxious awareness is evolving to suggest that fundamental changes will have to take place in the world order and its power structures, in the distribution of wealth and income.”
– Club of Rome, Mankind at the Turning Point

“Adopting a central organizing principle means embarking on an all-out effort to use every policy and program, every law and institution, to halt the destruction of the environment.”
– Al Gore, Earth in the Balance

“Effective execution of Agenda 21 will require a profound reorientation of all human society, unlike anything the world has ever experienced – a major shift in the priorities of both governments and individuals and an unprecedented redeployment of human and financial resources.  This shift will demand that a concern for the environmental consequences of every human action be integrated into individual and collective decision-making at every level.”
– UN Agenda 21

“The earth is literally our mother, not only because we depend on her for nurture and shelter but even more because the human sepcies has been shaped by her in the womb of evolution.  Our salvation depends upon our ability to create a religion of nature.”
– Rene Dubos, board member Planetary Citizens

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: KaRtToOn December 19, 2009, 02:10:42 PM
Do you read all this shit L0x? I won't check this thread again for your response but lemme know on irc
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Rathdal December 19, 2009, 02:59:27 PM
I'm pretty sure these are all random NWO search engine results pasted for our pleasure. I'd be really surprised if Lox has read more then 10 posts in this entire thread.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx April 26, 2010, 04:08:52 PM
The Story of Your Enslavement (
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Mad May 09, 2010, 09:20:09 PM
All I know is we get a lot of hits from cuz of this thread.  ::)
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Skiiz May 13, 2010, 12:35:53 AM
haha awesome, tin foil is something i can get behind...
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD May 03, 2011, 12:14:11 PM
what the fuck Lox, you have abandoned this thread .

you would think you would be all over the shit we are being lied to about in Japan,bin Laden may have been dead for years, the birth certificate crap going plus all the shit going on with I Phones tracking your location.

get off your ass and get this shit going again or are you tryin g to cover up for the president now?

have you become part of the conspiracy now?
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Mad May 03, 2011, 02:17:22 PM
Lox got a job and the crippling reality of life has dissuaded him from his fight versus Ghost Dad and his minions of evil.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD May 04, 2011, 02:35:54 PM
well screw Lox,I have a few things I have found on the web and I am going to hijack the thread

talks about all the confusion in the "official" time lines and details that have been released by the DoD,CIA and White House.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: SgtMAD May 04, 2011, 02:57:45 PM
and this is from Japan,they don't bother even bringing this shit up on our news media

the japanese have pumped 7400 tons of water into the reactor vessel at reactor#1,which was calculated to be enough water to completely fill the vessel and the water level is exactly the same as the day before they strted the operation

the japanese are now going to force workers to enter the building and try to work on the cooling systems

last week they sent a robot into the building and found places that were emitting over 1000 millibequerels,50 millibequerels was the lifetime limit for nuc workers before this accident happened,1000 is a death sentence

and if you want to see some very cool high res aerial photos of the reactor site,take a real good look, you can really zoom in on these picts and get a real good idea of how bad it really is,take a real good look at reactor three and then image the bullshit the japanese keep telling ppl about going inside that building,the damn place looks like it was hit with a B-52 air strike

scroll down on the page and DL the zip file,you can zoom them up to 300% and see everything scattered all over the damn place

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: kidRiot June 16, 2011, 11:45:10 AM
man, that's totally fucked.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx June 30, 2011, 04:11:29 PM

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Mad July 05, 2011, 01:08:51 AM
Lox, rumor is you moved down to Texas to get cornholed by George Dubya.

: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: Mad December 01, 2011, 08:26:27 PM
Bump cuz Lox got lazy.

Just when we were all starting to come around and fight back versus the NWO too.
: Re: On The Road To Tyranny
: [Ht]LOx February 07, 2012, 06:26:24 PM
Paul Joseph Watson
Tuesday, February 7, 2012

An FBI advisory aimed at Internet Cafe owners instructs businesses to report people who regularly use cash to pay for their coffee as potential terrorists.

The flyer, issued un